The HRT thread

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 09 Feb 2012, 13:54

One of the inconvenients of Sauber -and something I fear might contribute to the team closing its doors in the medium term, at least as an F1 operation- is its location in Switzerland, away from most teams and literally nowhere.

If HRT owners want to make the team a more interesting proposition than Sauber for Slim (or any other), they shouldn't be comiting exactly the same "mistake".

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 09 Feb 2012, 20:22

Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test :roll:

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 09 Feb 2012, 20:40

Warren Hughes wrote:Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test

Surprise Surprise...

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 09 Feb 2012, 21:09

So the car has failed 2 tests (lateral nose test and roll hoop) but passed 13 and couldn't complete one due to the lateral nose test not passing.

The most important thing is that the new chassis has passed it tests because if that had failed.... there would have been a problem.

Post by **mario** » 09 Feb 2012, 22:35

Warren Hughes wrote:Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test

I guess that is a gamble that you take in leaving the crash tests until relatively late in the process - it may give you considerably more time to work on the car in the workshop, but it leaves you with relatively little margin for error if something goes wrong.
There's no shame in failing the tests themselves though - Ferrari were rumoured to have failed the side impact test at the first attempt this year (though they had more time and additional resources on their side), whilst Williams had a lot of problems with getting the nose of the FW26 through the crash tests in 2004 (and blamed their subsequent worse than expected performance in part on the additional material required to reinforce the nose section). And, of course, the less said about the MP4-18 and its side impact tests the better...

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 09 Feb 2012, 22:45

mario wrote:
Warren Hughes wrote:Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test

I guess that is a gamble that you take in leaving the crash tests until relatively late in the process - it may give you considerably more time to work on the car in the workshop, but it leaves you with relatively little margin for error if something goes wrong.
There's no shame in failing the tests themselves though - Ferrari were rumoured to have failed the side impact test at the first attempt this year (though they had more time and additional resources on their side), whilst Williams had a lot of problems with getting the nose of the FW26 through the crash tests in 2004 (and blamed their subsequent worse than expected performance in part on the additional material required to reinforce the nose section). And, of course, the less said about the MP4-18 and its side impact tests the better...

Mario, do you think these failed parts are simple to fix?

Its seems the biggest part the chassis in passed, so it doesn't seem a big problem in the scheme of things...

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 09 Feb 2012, 23:28

cbbcisace wrote:
mario wrote:
Warren Hughes wrote:Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test

I guess that is a gamble that you take in leaving the crash tests until relatively late in the process - it may give you considerably more time to work on the car in the workshop, but it leaves you with relatively little margin for error if something goes wrong.
There's no shame in failing the tests themselves though - Ferrari were rumoured to have failed the side impact test at the first attempt this year (though they had more time and additional resources on their side), whilst Williams had a lot of problems with getting the nose of the FW26 through the crash tests in 2004 (and blamed their subsequent worse than expected performance in part on the additional material required to reinforce the nose section). And, of course, the less said about the MP4-18 and its side impact tests the better...

Mario, do you think these failed parts are simple to fix?

Its seems the biggest part the chassis in passed, so it doesn't seem a big problem in the scheme of things...

I'm not mario, but anyway :lol:

Considering that the chassis itself passed the required tests, i'd say that there is no more necessary than to simply restrengthen the front wing and whatnot. The only reason I think the F112 won't be at the 2nd test is just because of the fact that they will be setback by having to scrap any already made parts, and restructure and built new parts that failed the tests before.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 10 Feb 2012, 00:04

Despite a few crash test problems, they seem to be getting their act together. The total reshuffle might pay off, especially as they seem more focused on getting things done one at a time, rather than rushing around.

Post by **mario** » 10 Feb 2012, 10:55

cbbcisace wrote:
mario wrote:
Warren Hughes wrote:Well, it seems the new HRT has failed some crash tests and now won't be appearing till the 3rd test

I guess that is a gamble that you take in leaving the crash tests until relatively late in the process - it may give you considerably more time to work on the car in the workshop, but it leaves you with relatively little margin for error if something goes wrong.
There's no shame in failing the tests themselves though - Ferrari were rumoured to have failed the side impact test at the first attempt this year (though they had more time and additional resources on their side), whilst Williams had a lot of problems with getting the nose of the FW26 through the crash tests in 2004 (and blamed their subsequent worse than expected performance in part on the additional material required to reinforce the nose section). And, of course, the less said about the MP4-18 and its side impact tests the better...

Mario, do you think these failed parts are simple to fix?

Its seems the biggest part the chassis in passed, so it doesn't seem a big problem in the scheme of things...

Without knowing how exactly those components performed in the test, it is hard to say how difficult it would be to fix those problems. They have indicated that they were relatively close to the test thresholds though, so it probably would not require drastic changes to the design (maybe small detailed changes here and there depending on how the nose cone failed, for example). It is fair to say that the roll hoop test is a slightly unusual test to fail given that the airbox and roll hoop region normally doesn't change significantly in shape and structure from year to year (with the exception of a handful of teams using a blade design recently, though that now seems to have faded away), whilst the nose cone will probably be a bit easier to rectify.

There is also the caveat that HRT could not complete one particular test (the front impact test), so it might well be that the team are also playing it safe by enduring they have enough time ahead of the final test session, if necessary, to make further changes should the nose cone fail to perform as expected. And at least in one respect the team are in a better position than Marussia - Marussia, as far as I am aware, have not yet started crash testing their car, so at least HRT are closer to having a car ready to test than Marussia...

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 10 Feb 2012, 15:38

mario wrote:It is fair to say that the roll hoop test is a slightly unusual test to fail given that the airbox and roll hoop region normally doesn't change significantly in shape and structure from year to year (with the exception of a handful of teams using a blade design recently, though that now seems to have faded away)

...though I've noticed there seems to be an ever-expanding gap between the top of the driver's head rest and the airbox opening. Toro Rosso's is particularly enormous, to the point where it's almost possible to have the roll hoop separate from the rest of the airbox. It's a fair way from the days where the rool hoop and the airbox opening were one and the same thing.

Before you know it, we'll be back to this...

S951 · Post by **S951** » 10 Feb 2012, 19:12

according to sources within hrt the failed test where by very small margins yes they may miss the 2nd test but they will be at the 3rd with the new car as with the main chassis passing it doesn't stop them building things up

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 13 Feb 2012, 09:21

Dani Clos confirmed as team test/reserve (3rd) driver.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Feb 2012, 21:03

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 19 Feb 2012, 17:52

OK so Joe Saward seems to think that HRT have failed a nose test again...

Not after the second crash test failure today (Oops… a secret)

Joe, do you know what HRT failed on?

Nose again.

This is the reply I got from HRT:-

“@lundo88: @maria_serrat @hrtf1team Joe Saward seems to think the F112 has failed its nose test again can you confirm or not??”

“@maria_serrat: @lundo88 it's not down to me to confirm or deny but nose test hasn't been conducted yet...”

Does Joe Saward have a agenda on HRT plus he changed his response from nose to roll hoop...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 19 Feb 2012, 18:39

cbbcisace wrote:OK so Joe Saward seems to think that HRT have failed a nose test again...

Not after the second crash test failure today (Oops… a secret)

Joe, do you know what HRT failed on?

Nose again.

This is the reply I got from HRT:-

“@lundo88: @maria_serrat @hrtf1team Joe Saward seems to think the F112 has failed its nose test again can you confirm or not??”

“@maria_serrat: @lundo88 it's not down to me to confirm or deny but nose test hasn't been conducted yet...”

Does Joe Saward have a agenda on HRT plus he changed his response from nose to roll hoop...

They sacked Liuzzi. So obviously he does now.

Post by **mario** » 20 Feb 2012, 09:47

kostas22 wrote:
cbbcisace wrote:OK so Joe Saward seems to think that HRT have failed a nose test again...

Not after the second crash test failure today (Oops… a secret)

Joe, do you know what HRT failed on?

Nose again.

This is the reply I got from HRT:-

“@lundo88: @maria_serrat @hrtf1team Joe Saward seems to think the F112 has failed its nose test again can you confirm or not??”

“@maria_serrat: @lundo88 it's not down to me to confirm or deny but nose test hasn't been conducted yet...”

Does Joe Saward have a agenda on HRT plus he changed his response from nose to roll hoop...

They sacked Liuzzi. So obviously he does now.

He has been critical of HRT before that announcement came through though, so it isn't an entirely new thing (to the displeasure of some of the Spanish readers of his blog).
That said, he has also defended HRT for failing the first crash tests - when some readers on his blog criticised HRT for failing the tests and questioning their competence, he pointed out that it was entirely normal for a team to fail a crash test first time round and that HRT were by no means the only team to have failed the tests - just that some of the bigger teams chose not to admit that they'd failed a test first time around. Given that, if he has accused HRT of failing a crash test it could well be out of misinterpreting some information rather than outright malice.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 21 Feb 2012, 17:48

Dear GPUpdate, this is the 2011 HRT. Sincerely, people with brains. At least I hope it is......

ElizabethSterling · Post by **ElizabethSterling** » 22 Feb 2012, 21:32

This recent 'not the F112' fiasco has highlighted just how bad things are getting at HRT. Not only is their new 'image' and website the third (at least) in as many years but it's poorly designed and the website looks like it was made quickly on the cheap too. Add to that that they upload an image to their website under the title 'F112' and I can honestly understand why people would think it is the F112, especially if they're not the most obsessive of F1 fans. I knew it wasn't but only because I knew about the new regulations and compared it to pictures of the F111 as a refresher. Worse still, after correcting everyone in the vaguest possible terms they didn't take the image down. Sloppy does not cover it - not every team needs to be fastidiously clean and correct like Mclaren but that sort of lack of professionalism in an aspect as simple as presentation is telling to me.

I think my patience has expired for HRT if I'm honest. I grant them their struggles in the first year, I can just understand that the team being late on the draw last year due to restructuring and trying to gain some sort of permanence in a difficult climate but what passes for a team right now is a hollow shell who has shown no sign they will ever improve. I didn't like how they handled their relationship with Dallara, I didn't see that their driver hiring policies would get them far and management fallout after management fallout has left them skeletal. I see no signs of the kind of fertile or stable environment that can actually produce a car that's worth the man hours and exhaustive passion put in to it.

I hope they will prove me wrong with the F112 and genuinely surpass at least Marussia, ('cause let's be honest, that one lucky result in '10 and '11 that saw them get second-to-last did not reflect the reality of their achievement) but I will not hold my breath. The crushing thing is, as it always is with poor teams, that there are no doubt some genuinely brilliant engineers, workers and minds within the team that deserve so much better and a poorly run team can stain reputations permanently.

slowest_indian · Post by **slowest_indian** » 25 Feb 2012, 12:50

To be honest I quite enjoy their shambolic approach to the whole thing. Makes them more loveable when they finally manage to drag a car to the finish in front of Marussia. Who appear to have been equally disorganised this year. I think if neither of them are at Caterhams level by this time last year then perhaps we can start writing them off as a bad idea, but I'd give them another year or so for now.

Well if they don't get this crash test passed soon they might not be around for much longer. Wasn't it supposed to be passed on thursday?
Anyone got any info on when the results are due?

Cheers

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 25 Feb 2012, 16:35

Accordingly they are all passed now.

Post by **mario** » 25 Feb 2012, 16:41

ElizabethSterling wrote:This recent 'not the F112' fiasco has highlighted just how bad things are getting at HRT. Not only is their new 'image' and website the third (at least) in as many years but it's poorly designed and the website looks like it was made quickly on the cheap too. Add to that that they upload an image to their website under the title 'F112' and I can honestly understand why people would think it is the F112, especially if they're not the most obsessive of F1 fans. I knew it wasn't but only because I knew about the new regulations and compared it to pictures of the F111 as a refresher. Worse still, after correcting everyone in the vaguest possible terms they didn't take the image down. Sloppy does not cover it - not every team needs to be fastidiously clean and correct like Mclaren but that sort of lack of professionalism in an aspect as simple as presentation is telling to me.

To be fair to HRT it isn't as if the larger teams have been entirely clean about their launch cars either - take the launch of the E20 earlier this year, where the car used at the official unveiling was actually a Renault R31 with fake bodywork to make it look vaguely like the E20 whilst the real E20 was already in Jerez. Ferrari also used artistic shots of the F150th ahead of the launch of the F2012 as part of their pre-launch promotional material (i.e. using it as "teaser" material), so to a certain extent HRT haven't been alone in trying to pass off an older car as their latest challenger whilst the real car is still being built.

slowest_indian · Post by **slowest_indian** » 25 Feb 2012, 17:38

cbbcisace wrote:Accordingly they are all passed now.

Got a source for it?

If so excellent, looking forward to seeing the car and whatever new livery they're going for. Wonder if they got Daniel Simon to do another design...

*Edit* Nay mind its just come up on Autosport. Apparently they might only get two days running, still, much better than a shakedown at Melbourne

Post by **mario** » 25 Feb 2012, 17:47

slowest_indian wrote:
cbbcisace wrote:Accordingly they are all passed now.

Got a source for it?

If so excellent, looking forward to seeing the car and whatever new livery they're going for. Wonder if they got Daniel Simon to do another design...

Autosport have announced about an hour ago that HRT have passed the final test, which was a roll hoop test, and the FIA's homologation process appears to be complete. The downside is that it seems to have taken longer than anticipated for HRT to pass this test so it looks like HRT will be struggling to make it to Barcelona - they are now talking about possibly missing the first two days of the final test. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97693

S951 · Post by **S951** » 25 Feb 2012, 18:33

as said its better than what they've had in last 2 years looking at it in the 2 days shake down the car do systems checks run new car on the new tyres and do small amount of set up work

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 25 Feb 2012, 19:10

slowest_indian wrote:
cbbcisace wrote:Accordingly they are all passed now.

Got a source for it?

If so excellent, looking forward to seeing the car and whatever new livery they're going for. Wonder if they got Daniel Simon to do another design...

*Edit* Nay mind its just come up on Autosport. Apparently they might only get two days running, still, much better than a shakedown at Melbourne

No Daniel Simon Livery.

Expect Gold, White and maybe a little Black in the livery

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 25 Feb 2012, 20:48

Its on Joe.S.... twitter feed as well.

I just wonder, cant they change their test days, like Red Bull and Ferrari? So instead of being their on the 1st and 4th, start from the 2nd and 5th. They might get another day.

But two days isnt much, but a lot lot better than in last two years. Also they got a great test driver in De la Rosa, and Karthikeyan has been round a while too. Providing they dont get many new car issues they be ok.

Interesting if they go the Mclaren way in terms of nose, or go the norm duck nose

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 25 Feb 2012, 21:04

David AGS wrote:Interesting if they go the Mclaren way in terms of nose, or go the norm duck nose

I saw an article a couple of weeks ago where PDLR said that there would be a stepped nose, but "not as aggressive" as other teams have.

Post by **mario** » 25 Feb 2012, 21:35

David AGS wrote:Its on Joe.S.... twitter feed as well.

I just wonder, cant they change their test days, like Red Bull and Ferrari? So instead of being their on the 1st and 4th, start from the 2nd and 5th. They might get another day.

But two days isnt much, but a lot lot better than in last two years. Also they got a great test driver in De la Rosa, and Karthikeyan has been round a while too. Providing they dont get many new car issues they be ok.

Interesting if they go the Mclaren way in terms of nose, or go the norm duck nose

In theory HRT could do that, not to mention that in theory HRT could carry out a private test since it hasn't used up all of its permitted test mileage.
However, there is one disadvantage in taking part in a private or semi private test session, and that is the cost of hiring out a circuit; in order to carry out an F1 test, the circuit has to have a full compliment of staff and medical crew in position with the teams having to foot the bill for those services. Collaborative testing is cheaper because those costs can then be split between 12 teams, but if HRT were to choose to test alongside Red Bull or Ferrari it'd have to bear a much higher percentage of the overall costs - not to mention that it would probably be conditional on Ferrari and Red Bull agreeing to let HRT run, and that is by no means assured if Red Bull and Ferrari want the track to themselves.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 29 Feb 2012, 13:04

HRT is next Brawn GP anyone?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 29 Feb 2012, 13:13

solarcold wrote:HRT is next Brawn GP anyone?

I wish.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Feb 2012, 13:28

CoopsII wrote:
solarcold wrote:HRT is next Brawn GP anyone?

I wish.

Who doesn't?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Feb 2012, 17:24

Klon wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
solarcold wrote:HRT is next Brawn GP anyone?

I wish.

Who doesn't?

Marussia...

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 29 Feb 2012, 19:43

dr-baker wrote:Marussia...

Marussia: "We used our CFD computers to simulate the upcoming season results. It said Sauber will be champions, HRT second, and Red Bull won't be present at all. However, we still believe our CFD simulates the real F1 pretty accurately."

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 29 Feb 2012, 19:52

solarcold wrote:HRT is next Brawn GP anyone?

They're a little late for that.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 29 Feb 2012, 21:03

HRT will be the next Brawn GP.
You read it here first.

slowest_indian · Post by **slowest_indian** » 29 Feb 2012, 21:41

Behold the motorhome...

http://www.f1today.net/en/photos

Just me or does the new wreath logo look very similar to the Fred Perry one?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Feb 2012, 21:44

slowest_indian wrote:Behold the motorhome...

http://www.f1today.net/en/photos

Just me or does the new wreath logo look very similar to the Fred Perry one?

I thought Jeroen was back for a second then.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 01 Mar 2012, 02:52

I just read the specs for the F112 on their website, and, how long have they had a rear pullrod suspension on the car for? Is it new with the 2012 challenger?

cbbcisace · Post by **cbbcisace** » 01 Mar 2012, 08:39

Yes pull rod is new for this year.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Mar 2012, 08:43

cbbcisace wrote:Yes pull rod is new for this year.

Just out of curiosity, do you have insider knowledge of the team because you seem to have information about them long before anyone else.