The 2012 Pre-Season testing thread

[Wallio]

Its being reported that Mercedes are offering MSC another 2 years after this one. Im sure that will rile many members here but I for one think its a great news. Its offering something I wouldnt necessarily expect from the tuetonic titans and that is a bit of romance, a bit of a story, a bit of a Happy Ending. They want MSC to win (as do I) for symmetry and to make a bad thing good (as Rastamouse would say) and, lets face it, what a feel-good story that would make.

So I will continue to cheer on The Old Enemy, just dont tell Damon.........

Well, look at the bright side, it means the Silver Arrow is going to stick around at least that much longer. So much for the whole "they have to win in the first year" BS that was going around.....

[Ferrim]

So, according to this week's test results, this season will see a close battle between Sauber and Williams, with Force India a little bit behind and Red Bull with an outside chance.

So much for the value of winter testing results.

[DanielPT]

So, according to this week's test results, this season will see a close battle between Sauber and Williams, with Force India a little bit behind and Red Bull with an outside chance.

So much for the value of winter testing results.

Well, at least it is different from the "Red Bull on top with McLaren a bit behind and Ferrari with an outside chance. Everybody else nowhere". This we will see the rest of the year. I think it is refreshing!

[dr-baker]

Actually, I've just remembered another reason why I don't want to see Schumacher win another race - I enjoy seeing the top-four race winners list as it is at the moment (it's easy to remember, I don't need to look this up at all):

91 - Michael Schumacher
51 - Alain Prost
41 - Ayrton Senna
31 - Nigel Mansell

Just hoping 3 of today's stars fill the gaps - 81, 71 and 61 wins each...

[Minardi Man]

I wouldn't mind it if Mercedes built a championship winning car, I predicted a few years back, while Rosberg was driving for williams, that he'd win the driver's championship, or at least be challenging for it at some point.
Schumacher on the other hand, I'd love to see not win at all, in the best car on the grid.

[mario]

So, according to this week's test results, this season will see a close battle between Sauber and Williams, with Force India a little bit behind and Red Bull with an outside chance.

So much for the value of winter testing results.

Well, at least it is different from the "Red Bull on top with McLaren a bit behind and Ferrari with an outside chance. Everybody else nowhere". This we will see the rest of the year. I think it is refreshing!

Sauber have now gone on the record admitting that their best times today were "qualifying style" runs - their reasoning is that they spent too much time concentrating on race trim last year in testing to the detriment of their qualifying performance, so they want to carry out more qualifying simulations this year to improve in that area. Cynically speaking, there are rumours that Sauber are a little short on funding this year and are currently asking Telmex for more funding, so a few days of more competitive running might well help them in their negotiations...
Overall, there isn't a great deal we can take away from the tests right now beyond a few reasonably broad points - the teams seem to have a greater handle on the behaviour of the tyres and that tyre degradation seems to be less pronounced, especially on the harder tyres. We're not quite back to the Bridgestone spec tyres, where the tyre wear was so minimal that the reduction in fuel weight offset the wear of the tyres, but it seems that over a reasonably long stint - about 15 laps or so - that the drop off in performance is nowhere near as steep, nor have there been any complaints about the tyres "falling off a cliff" as there were last year. Asides from that, at the moment there do not seem to be any cars whose behaviour on track would suggest something is amiss - the reports that I've seen so far suggest that most of the cars look like they are fairly well balanced and behave predictably, with the usual suspects being in the strongest positions.

I wouldn't mind it if Mercedes built a championship winning car, I predicted a few years back, while Rosberg was driving for williams, that he'd win the driver's championship, or at least be challenging for it at some point.
Schumacher on the other hand, I'd love to see not win at all, in the best car on the grid.

On pure pace alone, I think that Mercedes might not be quite close enough to the leading pack - depending on whether Ferrari can dial out the problems with their car (and Massa has indicated that the car is now more settled through the corners), Mercedes might have a chance of leapfrogging Ferrari but struggle to break into the top three on a regular basis. Admittedly, there are some interesting design features on their car - including an interesting little hole in their diffuser that is reminiscent of the double deck diffusers - but whether it'll be enough is hard to tell.

[CoopsII]

If he signs that contract extension, Schumacher sure is one pathetic bloke - for someone supposedly not caring about records, he sure is willing to deal with a lot to get that most seasons in F1 record.

But, but, but you're German??!!

Isnt that a bit like slagging off Kraftwerk?

[TomWazzleshaw]

If he signs that contract extension, Schumacher sure is one pathetic bloke - for someone supposedly not caring about records, he sure is willing to deal with a lot to get that most seasons in F1 record.

But, but, but you're German??!!

Isnt that a bit like slagging off Kraftwerk?

Or maybe it's like an Irishman slagging off U2

[dr-baker]

If he signs that contract extension, Schumacher sure is one pathetic bloke - for someone supposedly not caring about records, he sure is willing to deal with a lot to get that most seasons in F1 record.

But, but, but you're German??!!

Isnt that a bit like slagging off Kraftwerk?

Or maybe it's like an Irishman slagging off U2

Or is it more comparable to an Irishman slagging off Eddie Jordan?

[dnhrudi]

Well putting aside the usual showboat runs we see every year.... the long stints seem to show that Red Bull and McLaren are pretty close at the head of the pack. Hard to tell where Merc and Ferrari are. And the midfield looks good racingly close. Anybody know whats happening with the Lotus/Renaults since Grosjean had his 'funny feelings' and the team retreated to the factory? This Boullier character is doing a pretty good job of turning a championship winning team into something distinctly mediocre looking on the bright side it will give Caterham a team to chase this season.......

[mario]

Well putting aside the usual showboat runs we see every year.... the long stints seem to show that Red Bull and McLaren are pretty close at the head of the pack. Hard to tell where Merc and Ferrari are. And the midfield looks good racingly close. Anybody know whats happening with the Lotus/Renaults since Grosjean had his 'funny feelings' and the team retreated to the factory? This Boullier character is doing a pretty good job of turning a championship winning team into something distinctly mediocre looking on the bright side it will give Caterham a team to chase this season.......

The latest news is that the team are working away on their car back in the factory, plus it seems that they have negotiated with FOTA in order to gain back some of the lost test time (FOTA have agreed in principle to give them one day of private testing, probably at Silverstone, given that Mercedes has received a similar dispensation for not taking part in the Jerez test).
As to the overall ranking, I think that we'll have very little idea of that until the very last day of the final Barcelona test when the teams are in something closer to Melbourne specification and the drivers start pushing the cars closer to the limit - for what it is worth, I suspect that the grid probably will look reasonably similar to last year but with the gaps between the teams shrinking slightly (save right at the back of the grid, where the gap between Caterham and Marussia + HRT may grow given that the latter two teams are likely to have reasonably conservative designs).

[dnhrudi]

Well putting aside the usual showboat runs we see every year.... the long stints seem to show that Red Bull and McLaren are pretty close at the head of the pack. Hard to tell where Merc and Ferrari are. And the midfield looks good racingly close. Anybody know whats happening with the Lotus/Renaults since Grosjean had his 'funny feelings' and the team retreated to the factory? This Boullier character is doing a pretty good job of turning a championship winning team into something distinctly mediocre looking on the bright side it will give Caterham a team to chase this season.......

The latest news is that the team are working away on their car back in the factory, plus it seems that they have negotiated with FOTA in order to gain back some of the lost test time (FOTA have agreed in principle to give them one day of private testing, probably at Silverstone, given that Mercedes has received a similar dispensation for not taking part in the Jerez test).
As to the overall ranking, I think that we'll have very little idea of that until the very last day of the final Barcelona test when the teams are in something closer to Melbourne specification and the drivers start pushing the cars closer to the limit - for what it is worth, I suspect that the grid probably will look reasonably similar to last year but with the gaps between the teams shrinking slightly (save right at the back of the grid, where the gap between Caterham and Marussia + HRT may grow given that the latter two teams are likely to have reasonably conservative designs).

Yep, I agree, the big variable is who has built a vice ridden car this year, which tends to shuffle the order a little, and Lotus/Renaults troubles might indicate they have a turkey on their hands. We shall see......

[S951]

marussia supposedly having a low nose like mclaren over on the f1tech thread

[GwilymJJames]

Once again, a team is to go into the new season with no pre-season testing. But not the one it usually is!

#F1 Marussia won't take part in the Barcelona test after failing to pass one of the FIA crash tests

[QuickYoda41]

Those tricky crash tests. Absolute reject start

[AndreaModa]

Un-bathplugging-believable! What an absolute shambles.

[Ferrim]

Let's see what Joe Saward has to say about the new act of incompetence of those crappy Spaniards... oh, wait!

[S951]

sorry for all the hrt bashing that happens on other forums and nothing about marussia being said this news bought a wry smile to my face

[Londoner]

Oh dear me. Could we possibly see HRT complete the Triple over Manor/Virgin/Marussia this season?

[DanielPT]

Once again, a team is to go into the new season with no pre-season testing. But not the one it usually is!

#F1 Marussia won't take part in the Barcelona test after failing to pass one of the FIA crash tests

You should wait a bit because it is not certain that HRT will be present at the second Barcelona test. About Marussia, Nick Wirth must be laughing at the moment. Absolutely rejectful really, but because of this I now fancy Marussia to finish ahead HRT. Just to go with the last two years flow.

[Klon]

You should wait a bit because it is not certain that HRT will be present at the second Barcelona test. About Marussia, Nick Wirth must be laughing at the moment. Absolutely rejectful really, but because of this I now fancy Marussia to finish ahead HRT. Just to go with the last two years flow.

No chance, the great Narain Karthikeyan will bring defeat to Marussia!

[AndreaModa]

All this woeful rejectfulness is making it harder and harder for me to justify wearing my MVR t-shirt in public!

Some crazy guy came up to me in Gambia telling me that he could see I liked cycling because I was wearing a cycling jersey!

Shows how well known they are!

[mario]

Let's see what Joe Saward has to say about the new act of incompetence of those crappy Spaniards... oh, wait!

Well, his summary of Marussia's failure to pass its crash test is simple - that there is "no real excuse" for them to fail. According to the team they are effectively in damage limitation mode - they are hoping to repeat the test at the end of the week, which I presume means either the 1st or 2nd of March.
Given that the first scruitineering session will take place on Thursday 15th March (i.e. the day before the first practise session takes place) Marussia are cutting it very fine - I can only assume that they'll be sending the parts out shortly and have to hope that the second test goes smoothly, otherwise they might be forced to withdraw from the race. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97710
And even assuming that Marussia are OK to race, we saw how HRT struggled last year with the F111 in Australia - I sense that they might be racking up a DNQ in Australia, though that might prove to be a blessing in disguise (HRT later admitted that the team was so worn out merely getting the cars ready for the practise sessions in Australia last year that they were actually relieved in a way that they DNQ'd).

Mind you, as DanielPT has pointed out, HRT are still to finalise their plans for Barcelona; they might only be able to carry out two days of testing - which will still be two days more than Marussia are going to get - but that will depend on everything working right out of the box. At least they should get that importance chance to shake out the usual teething problems - added to that, at least HRT have had the courage to be more public about their issues than Marussia, or indeed most of the grid, so that is something to their credit if nothing else.

[slowest_indian]

Some twitter reports of HRT trucks arriving at Barcelona today.

Bad luck for Marussia, but hey, maybe they'll get lucky at Canada this year and jump HRT in the standings...

[cbbcisace]

Let's see what Joe Saward has to say about the new act of incompetence of those crappy Spaniards... oh, wait!

Well, his summary of Marussia's failure to pass its crash test is simple - that there is "no real excuse" for them to fail. According to the team they are effectively in damage limitation mode - they are hoping to repeat the test at the end of the week, which I presume means either the 1st or 2nd of March.
Given that the first scruitineering session will take place on Thursday 15th March (i.e. the day before the first practise session takes place) Marussia are cutting it very fine - I can only assume that they'll be sending the parts out shortly and have to hope that the second test goes smoothly, otherwise they might be forced to withdraw from the race. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97710
And even assuming that Marussia are OK to race, we saw how HRT struggled last year with the F111 in Australia - I sense that they might be racking up a DNQ in Australia, though that might prove to be a blessing in disguise (HRT later admitted that the team was so worn out merely getting the cars ready for the practise sessions in Australia last year that they were actually relieved in a way that they DNQ'd).

Mind you, as DanielPT has pointed out, HRT are still to finalise their plans for Barcelona; they might only be able to carry out two days of testing - which will still be two days more than Marussia are going to get - but that will depend on everything working right out of the box. At least they should get that importance chance to shake out the usual teething problems - added to that, at least HRT have had the courage to be more public about their issues than Marussia, or indeed most of the grid, so that is something to their credit if nothing else.

Marussia are cutting it fine though.... HRT trucks have accordingly arrived in Barcelona, will it have a F112 in it though?

2 days testing should consist of a shakedown and basic set up, which I can only hope improves them!

[dr-baker]

You should wait a bit because it is not certain that HRT will be present at the second Barcelona test. About Marussia, Nick Wirth must be laughing at the moment. Absolutely rejectful really, but because of this I now fancy Marussia to finish ahead HRT. Just to go with the last two years flow.

Some twitter reports of HRT trucks arriving at Barcelona today.

Bad luck for Marussia, but hey, maybe they'll get lucky at Canada this year and jump HRT in the standings...

Glad I'm not the only one who began to think this... Although I would still put money on HRT beating Marussia.

[mario]

It looks like the FIA has made a late change to the regulations governing testing which is going to have a small impact on Red Bull and Ferrari, and a potentially larger impact on the Lotus and Marussia teams, based on their definition of when the pre-season testing period ends.
What has happened is that somebody has asked for a clarification on article 22.4, part c)

22.4 No track testing may take place :
[...]
c) Between the start of the week preceding the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :

Red Bull and Ferrari interpreted that underlined section to mean that testing can take place up until the 12th March, since the race weekend officially starts on Friday 16th March (although, since scruitineering takes place on the 15th, it could be argued that the race weekend effectively starts on Thursday).
However, the FIA's interpretation of that clause is different - they have defined that clause as covering the entire week in which the first race takes place, so they are working backwards from March 12th - going back an additional week, therefore, means that the test restrictions kick in on the 5th March, which was when Red Bull and Ferrari wanted to run their cars. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97713

It hasn't had a major impact on Ferrari or Red Bull, although it has caused them a slight logistical issue since both teams originally assumed they'd have 24 hours more than they now have. Lotus, however, will take a larger hit - after going to the effort of getting permission from the teams to carry out a one day private test after withdrawing from the first Barcelona test, they are now unlikely to be able to use that extra day as their one day test seems to have been scheduled for after the 5th March.
Marussia, meanwhile, are now effectively barred from testing - they might be able to use up one of their four days of permitted straight line tests or use up their limited mileage for promotional material, but they won't have a chance to see how their car behaves on a 2012 specification tyre until FP1 in Australia.

[TomWazzleshaw]

It looks like the FIA has made a late change to the regulations governing testing which is going to have a small impact on Red Bull and Ferrari, and a potentially larger impact on the Lotus and Marussia teams, based on their definition of when the pre-season testing period ends.
What has happened is that somebody has asked for a clarification on article 22.4, part c)

22.4 No track testing may take place :
[...]
c) Between the start of the week preceding the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :

Red Bull and Ferrari interpreted that underlined section to mean that testing can take place up until the 12th March, since the race weekend officially starts on Friday 16th March (although, since scruitineering takes place on the 15th, it could be argued that the race weekend effectively starts on Thursday).
However, the FIA's interpretation of that clause is different - they have defined that clause as covering the entire week in which the first race takes place, so they are working backwards from March 12th - going back an additional week, therefore, means that the test restrictions kick in on the 5th March, which was when Red Bull and Ferrari wanted to run their cars. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97713

It hasn't had a major impact on Ferrari or Red Bull, although it has caused them a slight logistical issue since both teams originally assumed they'd have 24 hours more than they now have. Lotus, however, will take a larger hit - after going to the effort of getting permission from the teams to carry out a one day private test after withdrawing from the first Barcelona test, they are now unlikely to be able to use that extra day as their one day test seems to have been scheduled for after the 5th March.
Marussia, meanwhile, are now effectively barred from testing - they might be able to use up one of their four days of permitted straight line tests or use up their limited mileage for promotional material, but they won't have a chance to see how their car behaves on a 2012 specification tyre until FP1 in Australia.

From an armchair enthusiast like myself, that is an incredibly odd interpretation by the FIA.

[DanielPT]

It looks like the FIA has made a late change to the regulations governing testing which is going to have a small impact on Red Bull and Ferrari, and a potentially larger impact on the Lotus and Marussia teams, based on their definition of when the pre-season testing period ends.
What has happened is that somebody has asked for a clarification on article 22.4, part c)

22.4 No track testing may take place :
[...]
c) Between the start of the week preceding the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions :

Red Bull and Ferrari interpreted that underlined section to mean that testing can take place up until the 12th March, since the race weekend officially starts on Friday 16th March (although, since scruitineering takes place on the 15th, it could be argued that the race weekend effectively starts on Thursday).
However, the FIA's interpretation of that clause is different - they have defined that clause as covering the entire week in which the first race takes place, so they are working backwards from March 12th - going back an additional week, therefore, means that the test restrictions kick in on the 5th March, which was when Red Bull and Ferrari wanted to run their cars. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97713

It hasn't had a major impact on Ferrari or Red Bull, although it has caused them a slight logistical issue since both teams originally assumed they'd have 24 hours more than they now have. Lotus, however, will take a larger hit - after going to the effort of getting permission from the teams to carry out a one day private test after withdrawing from the first Barcelona test, they are now unlikely to be able to use that extra day as their one day test seems to have been scheduled for after the 5th March.
Marussia, meanwhile, are now effectively barred from testing - they might be able to use up one of their four days of permitted straight line tests or use up their limited mileage for promotional material, but they won't have a chance to see how their car behaves on a 2012 specification tyre until FP1 in Australia.

From an armchair enthusiast like myself, that is an incredibly odd interpretation by the FIA.

I can see their point. A week starts Monday (Sunday in some places) and goes until Sunday (or Saturday). Usually a week is composed by 5 work days and a 2 days weekend. If the race starts 16th, it is still in the week of the 12th March effectively which means that the preceding week starts at 5th.

[AdrianSutil]

Marussia are starting to look like a bunch of...

Timo Glock must be wondering just what has he done!

[CoopsII]

Marussia are starting to look like a bunch of... REJECTS!!
Timo Glock must be wondering just what has he done....SECURED HIS IMMORTALITY ON HERE!!

Fixed

[mario]

Marussia are starting to look like a bunch of... REJECTS!!
Timo Glock must be wondering just what has he done....SECURED HIS IMMORTALITY ON HERE!!

Fixed

Which is more than you can say for the MR-01...

Anyway, back on topic - James Allison has confirmed that Lotus have sorted out the problem they had during the first test which they traced back to "a problem with the mounting of the upper front wishbone rear arm." The team have now made some modifications to the car - including adding around 1kg of additional material around that part of the car - and seem confident that they should not see a recurrence of the same problem. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97730

[Minardi Man]

Marussia are starting to look like a bunch of... REJECTS!!
Timo Glock must be wondering just what has he done....SECURED HIS IMMORTALITY ON HERE!!

Fixed

Which is more than you can say for the MR-01...

Anyway, back on topic - James Allison has confirmed that Lotus have sorted out the problem they had during the first test which they traced back to "a problem with the mounting of the upper front wishbone rear arm." The team have now made some modifications to the car - including adding around 1kg of additional material around that part of the car - and seem confident that they should not see a recurrence of the same problem. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97730

Let's hope so

[mario]

Marussia are starting to look like a bunch of... REJECTS!!
Timo Glock must be wondering just what has he done....SECURED HIS IMMORTALITY ON HERE!!

Fixed

Which is more than you can say for the MR-01...

Anyway, back on topic - James Allison has confirmed that Lotus have sorted out the problem they had during the first test which they traced back to "a problem with the mounting of the upper front wishbone rear arm." The team have now made some modifications to the car - including adding around 1kg of additional material around that part of the car - and seem confident that they should not see a recurrence of the same problem. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97730

Let's hope so

Judging by Grosjean's performance today it seems that the changes have worked well, even if the team were slightly delayed due to a faulty sensor.

Further down the grid, though, it sounds as if Caterham have been forced into something of a late change in their testing schedule - Heikki has announced on Twitter that he is suffering from chronic food poisoning, with some rather unpleasant consequences. I do hope that he recovers soon, but it sounds like he might be out of action for at least the next day or two, and perhaps the entire test. Speaking of Caterham, they've been testing a very substantial central cooling duct (borrowed from the F1 Technical forums):
http://www.formula1.com/wi/0x0/sutton/2 ... 01ma60.jpg

Over at Ferrari, there seem to be a few changes too - they have revised exhaust outlets (they have moved the exhausts closer to the centreline of the car, but are reusing the old engine cover), as well as a revised beam wing.


[EDIT] Looks like Sauber have found a small loophole in the rules for an additional winglet just in front of the sidepod intakes (in the same region where McLaren could fit a small winglet when using their U shaped sidepods last year).

[eytl]

[EDIT] Looks like Sauber have found a small loophole in the rules for an additional winglet just in front of the sidepod intakes (in the same region where McLaren could fit a small winglet when using their U shaped sidepods last year).

Am I just late to the party or do I notice a gap between the top of the step and the horizontal plane of the nose section? What might that be for?

[mario]

[EDIT] Looks like Sauber have found a small loophole in the rules for an additional winglet just in front of the sidepod intakes (in the same region where McLaren could fit a small winglet when using their U shaped sidepods last year).
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 2jpg-7.jpg

Am I just late to the party or do I notice a gap between the top of the step and the horizontal plane of the nose section? What might that be for?

There are photos on other sites (like Sutton) that confirm that there is a slot behind the step in the Sauber nose, and that particular feature appears to have been on the car since launch (or at least since the first test in Jerez). At the moment the consensus seems to be that it is designed to encourage air flowing over the step in the nose to remain attached to the upper surface of the monocoque, although the exact purpose hasn't been confirmed.

[S951]

rumour has it massa is in the process of being given his p45..........

[GwilymJJames]

rumour has it massa is in the process of being given his p45..........

About half an hour ago @SkySportsF1 said there was some big news they were about to reveal. Guessing someone on Twitter decided that meant Massa had gone, and things escalated from there.

It's actually that RBR have a new car.

[mario]

rumour has it massa is in the process of being given his p45..........

About half an hour ago @SkySportsF1 said there was some big news they were about to reveal. Guessing someone on Twitter decided that meant Massa had gone, and things escalated from there.

It's actually that RBR have a new car.

I suspect the false rumours of Massa being sacked were what the person posting wished would happen - as it is, it seems that Red Bull are planning on using a newly manufactured chassis in testing tomorrow as well as bolting on new parts, so it seems that we are getting closer to the Melbourne spec package now.

[TomWazzleshaw]

rumour has it massa is in the process of being given his p45..........

About half an hour ago @SkySportsF1 said there was some big news they were about to reveal. Guessing someone on Twitter decided that meant Massa had gone, and things escalated from there.

It's actually that RBR have a new car.

I suspect the false rumours of Massa being sacked were what the person posting wished would happen - as it is, it seems that Red Bull are planning on using a newly manufactured chassis in testing tomorrow as well as bolting on new parts, so it seems that we are getting closer to the Melbourne spec package now.

Whether the rumours are true or not, it must have done the trick because Massa's currently leading the timesheets. Not that it means anything. Although I am starting to suspect the Lotus car is better than most of us think it is.