The Sportscar and Endurance Thread

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 14 Mar 2012, 18:10

GTe-Pro and GTe-Am are essentially what is left of GT2, the Pro and Am statuses of each car are determined by what kind of racing license the drivers of each car have, for example Giancarlo Fisichella is part of the Pro lineup due to his F1 experience in the last x-amount of years, Martin Brundle may not be in a GT but if he was he would be in Am because he hasn't raced in any International events in the last 10 years* (The Rolex 24 that he took part in last year is classed as a National event)

*you may want to find some better reason than the one I just gave, but I THINK this is how it works.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 14 Mar 2012, 22:30

Drivers are classified under Gold,Silver and Bronze for Le Mans Racing iirc, with gold being most experienced (the Alain McNishs of the world) and the Bronzes being gentlemen racers and what not. And I think GTe Am is for GTe cars that are at least a year old and for silver/bronze drivers. Id rather a different GT formula for GTe Am, but GT3 is as fast, if not faster than GTe as it is. And the SRO and ACO don't get along all that well.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 16 Mar 2012, 14:29

nome66 wrote:i noticed that there is a "GTE" class with Pro and Am. are these cars the same ones that run the Grand-Am series?

Not quite. The Grand-Am cars are based on GT3 cars, which is the level below GTE (previously known as GT2) in terms of competitive level. You can't use a European GT3 car in Grand-Am without modifying it because Grand-Am has special rules (I think they make the cars faster than the European versions, but I'm not an authority on this).

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 16 Mar 2012, 14:42

ADx_Wales wrote:GTe-Pro and GTe-Am are essentially what is left of GT2, the Pro and Am statuses of each car are determined by what kind of racing license the drivers of each car have, for example Giancarlo Fisichella is part of the Pro lineup due to his F1 experience in the last x-amount of years, Martin Brundle may not be in a GT but if he was he would be in Am because he hasn't raced in any International events in the last 10 years* (The Rolex 24 that he took part in last year is classed as a National event)

*you may want to find some better reason than the one I just gave, but I THINK this is how it works.

There are 4 categories of licence for endurance drivers (Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze). GTE-Am requires that there is only one driver involved with a Platinum or Gold licence - so Fisichella would be able to do GTE-Pro, but he couldn't have Gianmaria Bruni as a team-mate (see below) - he'd have to have team-mate(s) who were relatively inexperienced, old and/or slow. These are in descending order of previous experience and demonstrated skill.

Confusingly IMSA and ACO/FIA have different criteria. The list of rules for each is fairly long and discretion in some cases is allowed. One point on which they both agree: if a driver has ever held a Superlicence and they're under 55, they will automatically be a Platinum driver. Between ages 55 and 60, such drivers are Gold and above 60, they are Silver. Martin Brundle is over 60 and therefore a Silver driver. The Superlicence/Platinum makes perfect sense for drivers like McNish, Fisichella and Bruni, whose skills have transferred well to sportscars, but makes less sense for people like Deletraz, who's also affected by the rule (he'll become a Gold driver in 2018)...

...speaking of which, (I think) I know what Deletraz is doing. He's been drafted in as a last-minute substitute for the 12 Hours of Sebring in the #29 LMP2 Gulf Racing car after Jan Charouz left.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Mar 2012, 14:46

Alianora La Canta wrote: Martin Brundle is over 60 and therefore a Silver driver. The Superlicence/Platinum makes perfect sense for drivers like McNish, Fisichella and Bruni, whose skills have transferred well to sportscars, but makes less sense for people like Deletraz, who's also affected by the rule (he'll become a Gold driver in 2018)...

...speaking of which, (I think) I know what Deletraz is doing. He's been drafted in as a last-minute substitute for the 12 Hours of Sebring in the #29 LMP2 Gulf Racing car after Jan Charouz left.

According to Wikipedia, Martin Brundle was born in June 1959, therefore he is 52!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 16 Mar 2012, 19:18

Live qualifying for the only race that matters this weekend...

http://www.americanlemans.com/camera/live-broadcast

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 16 Mar 2012, 19:37

http://scoring.americanlemans.com/

Pedro Lamy currently 3rd in GTe-AM running a Corvette
Sean Edwards (Son of Reject Guy Edwards) Fastest in the GTC class (spec Porsche 911s)

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 16 Mar 2012, 19:49

Gianmaria Bruni currently 2nd in GTe-Pro
Olivier Beretta 3rd
Jan Magnussen 5th
Stefan Mucke (he of the FIA G1 revenge wreck at Silverstone last year, amazed he's still allowed to race) 9th.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 16 Mar 2012, 20:43

dr-baker wrote:According to Wikipedia, Martin Brundle was born in June 1959, therefore he is 52!

Oops! Where did I get that other decade from? Not my first major blooper of the weekend and probably not my last...

So Martin should be a Platinum driver for the next 3 years. Unless the relevant committee has decided otherwise, then he could be Bronze for all I know...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 17 Mar 2012, 21:32

So the ESPN broadcast just had Marino Franchitti on talking about the DeltaWing, where do you guys stand on it?

I had my misgivings at first, mostly because I couldn't understand how it could possibly corner, but the more I learn about it the more I have got behind the project. Modern race car design has become very constrained by regulations to the point where there is very little game changing innovation, its all about evolution not revolution. The DeltaWing is harking back to the old days where crazy ideas like the 6 wheeled Tyrrell or the Chapparal "sucker car" were racing and occasionally winning, whether the DW succeeds or fails miserably, I am happy to see the spirit of crazy ideas back in motorsport, I would rather see the 56th slot used in this way than simply adding one more GT or Prototype thats the same as all the others.

Theres another forum I post on where the feeling is overwhelmingly against the DeltaWing, its another small community but it feels like I'm the only one who isn't hoping they fail, they call it the DeltaShit and say it has absolutely no place in the sport. While I can understand the misgivings about the aesthetics and the lack of understanding about how it works, but to decry the spirit of the design and actively hoping they fail is incredibly mean spirited, but I expect this forum will be a little more tolerant.

You've got to remember that ideas like rear engine (Enzo Ferrari said he would never build one "Prancing Horses should pull not push"), monocoque chassis (when Jack Brabham first saw the Lotus 25 he asked where the chassis was) and fully stressed engines seemed like crazy ideas at the time, and if the internet existed back then I'm sure a lot of "armchair engineers" would have been slamming it on forums back then. I'm not saying the DeltaWing will definitely change everything, my point is that one should at least give it a chance to race before you pass judgement.

On the race: Nice to see Prodrive having a strong run with the Vantage, they had a horrible 2011 so to be running 4th in class and only about 10s off the leader must be a big boost for them.

Edit: And of course as soon as I post that the Vantage turns up on the grass and missing a wheel, commentator's curse!

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 18 Mar 2012, 02:39

mcnish mcnish mcnish mcnish mcnish

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 18 Mar 2012, 02:46

12 Hours of Racing, GT2 decided once again on the last lap...

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 01 Apr 2012, 09:14

Paul Ricard 6 Hours due to begin:
http://www.europeanlemansseries.com/fr/ ... videos.php

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 02 Apr 2012, 18:28

Havn't caught the race yet, will probably watch highlights on MotorsTV.

Anyway the ELMS appears to be dieing a death:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98563

Hardly surprising, as I mentioned earlier the WEC has essentially taken the best bits of the LMS and the ELMS is just what's left, I personally felt the ILMC format worked best (ALMS and LMS as stand alone series, separate world championship shares select races with both.)

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 03 Apr 2012, 14:31

I gather the plan is to try to get 25 entries for Donington in July, but ELMS has come a long way down since it was turning down entries last year in its combined LMS/ILMC rounds...

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 04 Apr 2012, 22:47

Viper GTS-R is back, Two Car Factory program in ALMS GT starting presumably at Road America.

I love it.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 05 Apr 2012, 01:45

that car is beyond beautiful. better than the 'Vette, better than the GT. Easily the E-type of American cars. The best looking Viper ever designed. debuting in Road America means it will be in Baltimore.
.......*big breath in*....... YYEEESSSS YES YES YES YES YES!!!
i am completely incapable of waiting to hear that stunning V10 resonate off of Downtown.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Apr 2012, 13:30

Lapierre has written off Toyota's only available LMP1 car

No word on the cause but it means that Toyota will miss the 6 hours of Spa as a result.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Apr 2012, 13:36

Wizzie wrote:Lapierre has written off Toyota's only available LMP1 car

No word on the cause but it means that Toyota will miss the 6 hours of Spa as a result.

Usually I conclude that, when a team avoids to specify the cause of the accident, it can only be one of two things:
a) It was because of a component failure and a full disclaimer shows rivals what is the car weakness not to mention an embarrassing error from the engineers.
b) A very rejectful driver mistake.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 11 Apr 2012, 13:41

Wizzie wrote:Lapierre has written off Toyota's only available LMP1 car

No word on the cause but it means that Toyota will miss the 6 hours of Spa as a result.

You know what worries me about this? Guess who a certain certain Frenchman wants as a partner on the Gold Coast this year

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 11 Apr 2012, 13:52

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Lapierre has written off Toyota's only available LMP1 car

No word on the cause but it means that Toyota will miss the 6 hours of Spa as a result.

You know what worries me about this? Guess who a certain certain Frenchman wants as a partner on the Gold Coast this year

It was these two that dominated A1GP in its first season for A1 Team France, wasn't it?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 11 Apr 2012, 13:54

It's a real shame because I was looking forward to seeing how Toyota would stack up against Audi prior to Le Mans, but now we'll have to wait for that. It's a blow for the WEC as well because you might as well hand the championship to Audi now, if it wasn't the case already.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 11 Apr 2012, 17:40

Conspiracy theorists are standing up over this, suspecting that Toyota have a massive speed advantage and don't want to play their hand too early.

A more likely explanation was that Toyota were apparently making changes to the monocoque which is why they don't have a second car yet (they are still scheduled to run two cars at Le Mans). Missing Spa is certainly a blow to them but its not as bad as it looks, note that the press release says that they can't get a new monocoque sufficiently tested before Spa, which means they will probably be able to get one build and back out before Spa, but they'd rather not race it.

I'm still hoping that they will be able to pose a challenge to Audi in the 24h, even the car lacks the reliability to carry it for the full day.

P.S. Pescarolo have been testing the updated Dome. and are on course to debut that car and their own Pescarolo 03 at Spa. IMO the S102 is the best looking LMP in recent years and its very good to see it back racing.

Post by **mario** » 12 Apr 2012, 21:27

Wizzie wrote:Lapierre has written off Toyota's only available LMP1 car

No word on the cause but it means that Toyota will miss the 6 hours of Spa as a result.

Oddly, one of the few places where you can find further details is on the Top Gear website, which is normally relatively late on news stories. According to them, the accident happened when Lapierre took to the track in very wet conditions, because Toyota wanted to see how the car would behave in those conditions. They seem to think that the accident was due to part of the electronics systems of the cars being flooded (perhaps the sensors tied into the traction control system), which then caused the car to spin out of control - so perhaps DanielPT is right, and Toyota were reluctant about releasing the details because they are embarrassed about a component failing like that?

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 03 May 2012, 20:23

Dat ALMS Start.

Oh dear....

Bumpity,Editity, POOF!

Much better. Although it still needs moar red.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 03 May 2012, 21:23

finally! no geeky headlights. i knew they were only a pre race-spec feature.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 05 May 2012, 13:03

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99382

Chandhook up to his old tricks.

Post by **mario** » 05 May 2012, 13:46

Shadaza wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99382

Chandhook up to his old tricks.

At least the team have been able to repair the damage in time - he isn't the only driver to have crashed there (a driver in the LMP2 class, Alexander Sims, crashed out in the same spot during the practise sessions and damaged the car so heavily that the team had to withdraw http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99335 ). Added to that, Brian Vickers has crashed the Ferrari 458 Italia that Waltrip was running for that event at La Source (due to driver error), putting that team out of the race ( http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99381 ).

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 May 2012, 16:18

Christ the Norma LMP2 car has just had a huge accident at Eau Rouge, destroyed the car once it hit the barriers, so much so the commentators thought it was David Brabham in the JRM LMP1 car!

Also Audi are facing a dilemma as the #3 Ultra car is leading by about half a minute from the second placed #1 e-tron so will we see some team orders in the final two hours?

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 05 May 2012, 16:40

Deletraz is having a moment again. :lol:

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 May 2012, 16:42

Ferrarist wrote:Deletraz is having a moment again.

You're right there! Pretty damning assessment of the Gulf Racing team by the commentators too. I don't think anyone knows what he's doing at any time! :lol:

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 05 May 2012, 16:51

AndreaModa wrote:
Ferrarist wrote:Deletraz is having a moment again.

You're right there! Pretty damning assessment of the Gulf Racing team by the commentators too. I don't think anyone knows what he's doing at any time!

Fittingly, Deletraz's car is last in LMP2 class. And Delatraz last F1 grand prix was in 1995! Was there ever a reject that held himself in motorsport for such a long time? I guess Deletraz has some deep pockets.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 May 2012, 17:03

It seems so. The commentators are even speculating his poor performance may even result in the team being kicked out of Le Mans by the ACO for being woefully incompetent!

Another interesting announcement of note is that apparently Williams' Hybrid Power company has signed a supply deal with an LMP1 team, though the details of which team wasn't revealed. Considering the origin of the conversation was a discussion of Rebellion getting a hybrid deal which was denied, we can assume it isn't them. Any thoughts on who it might be? Whoever it is it will be good to see an additional team with hybrid power alongside Audi and Toyota.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 05 May 2012, 18:34

Diesel beats Battery power at Spa, and after 6 hours GTe decided by about 1 second.

Post by **mario** » 05 May 2012, 20:03

AndreaModa wrote:It seems so. The commentators are even speculating his poor performance may even result in the team being kicked out of Le Mans by the ACO for being woefully incompetent!

Another interesting announcement of note is that apparently Williams' Hybrid Power company has signed a supply deal with an LMP1 team, though the details of which team wasn't revealed. Considering the origin of the conversation was a discussion of Rebellion getting a hybrid deal which was denied, we can assume it isn't them. Any thoughts on who it might be? Whoever it is it will be good to see an additional team with hybrid power alongside Audi and Toyota.

Was the Williams supply deal for an entire KERS unit or not? According to Racecar Engineering, Williams Hybrid Power are already collaborating with Audi for the design of their hybrid drive system (Williams are working on the accumulator, although Bosch has the development contract for the Motor Generator Unit) - not surprising given that Audi's system is flywheel based, and Williams have continued refining their flywheel system for some time. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars ... n-quattro/
It is possible that the commentators might have mistakenly assumed that Williams were getting involved with Audi for the first time, rather than a continuation of an existing contract. I would be a touch surprised, though, if another team was trying to implement a hybrid system already - Toyota, for example, have said that they want to supply other teams with hybrid drive systems, but given the high cost of developing such systems, they reckon that it'll take three to four years before they can bring the price down far enough for it to be affordable to privateers. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99329

I am not entirely discounting the possibility that another LMP1 team might be going for a hybrid system, but would the privateer teams have the resources to pay for such a system? If we discount Audi, Toyota and Rebellion, that leaves us with Oak Racing, Pescarolo, Strakka Racing and JRM (sticking just to the WEC): Pescarolo might be one of the more likely candidates, since they have run hybrid cars in the past, plus it'd probably be easier to fit a hybrid drive system into the new 03 model instead of having to retrofit it into an existing design.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 May 2012, 20:53

No one of them actually knows the deal is going ahead, but wasn't in a position to confirm which team would be on the receiving end of it. I'm assuming that means there are still some details to be sorted out, or perhaps the deal hasn't been fully concluded. What's clear is that should the deal work out as described, there'll be a further team running hybrid power alongside Audi and Toyota. I reckon your guess at Pescarolo is probably right Mario.

Post by **mario** » 09 May 2012, 00:06

Thanks for the information AndreaModa (I must apologise for the lateness of my reply) - it's an interesting development, but logical given that Williams have a proven race ready system (thanks to their link with Porsche's GT3 Hybrid program).
If the rumours are true, it looks like Audi and Toyota might not have the field entirely to themselves when it comes to selling off their hybrid systems (although both manufacturers have expressed support for selling their systems "when costs allow", I imagine that competition from Williams might also act as an added incentive to supply hybrid systems). It sounds like a win-win situation overall - Williams will be getting a valuable stream of data and income from this deal, and additional competition will probably force the manufacturers to licence their systems too in the longer term.

Mentioning Toyota indirectly, Toyota have also announced that Hiroaki Ishiura has formally withdrawn from their line up. It appears that the TS030 might have been performing a little too well for Ishiura to cope with - he has been suffering from problems with his back as a result of the G-forces he was exposed to during his tests at Paul Ricard, and decided to withdraw on medical grounds after receiving advice.
As a result, Toyota are now in talks with other drivers and the ACO over a replacement, although Ishiura will remain associated with Toyota in an advisory capacity. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99435

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 09 May 2012, 06:22

Wow that is rejectful. :lol:

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 09 May 2012, 12:08

Much like his countryman Sakon Yamamoto, Ishiura will henceforth be known as "he of the dodgy back".

Post by **mario** » 10 May 2012, 21:19

eurobrun wrote:Wow that is rejectful.

It is - I'll admit to reading that story with a wry smile when I first saw it...

On another note, another former Reject has decided to join Endurance Racing - Antonio Pizzonia has announced that he will be driving for Conquest Racing in the 6 Hours ALMS race at Laguna Seca. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99455