2012 Spanish Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Post by **Londoner** » 04 May 2012, 16:16

A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

It's interesting that Caterham have turfed Kovalainen out of the car instead of Petrov. I imagine it is just a coincidence though...

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 04 May 2012, 21:18

Go Rossi!

I hope he does well enough to get a full time drive one day!

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 05 May 2012, 00:08

Bring ALL the updates! (for each team)

Right?

The beginning of the euro season usually means updates time. Some teams already testing theirs at Mugello. I enjoy the vanes by the wing mirrors on the Ferrari. Reminds me of what Force India had late 2009/all of 2010.

Post by **Londoner** » 05 May 2012, 14:34

Hamilton believes the battle for the win next week is wide open

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 05 May 2012, 14:36

East Londoner wrote:Hamilton believes the battle for the win next week is wide open

[img]http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m37gw4Tcaj1r8wctqo2_500.jpg

We likely wouldn't have said that prior to the start of this season.

East Londoner wrote:A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

It's interesting that Caterham have turfed Kovalainen out of the car instead of Petrov. I imagine it is just a coincidence though...

Didn't van der Garde replace Petrov for FP1 in China? It's only fair for both Rossi and Petrov to get their chance.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 05 May 2012, 14:36

East Londoner wrote:Hamilton believes the battle for the win next week is wide open

Actually, I'm convinced that the main contender for the win will be on the front row of the grid.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 05 May 2012, 14:45

Anyhow, looking at the Mugello times, what the drivers (and everyone else said) said and the characteristics of Catalunya, who's your money on?

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 05 May 2012, 15:06

My Money's on Massa to still be rubbish, a McLaren on Pole, Williams to be in the top 10 and to HRT still be rubbish.

Wonder if Force India has been forgiven by FOM yet? You never know, we might get a glimpse of the orange white and green cars this time in qualifying

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 05 May 2012, 15:10

pasta_maldonado wrote:My Money's on Massa to still be rubbish, a McLaren on Pole, Williams to be in the top 10 and to HRT still be rubbish.

Wonder if Force India has been forgiven by FOM yet? You never know, we might get a glimpse of the orange white and green cars this time in qualifying

Still? Massa's been great in the last 2 races.

The strategy didn't work at all in China, and he lost precious time behind Di Resta.
In Bahrain, he was held up by his own teammate when he was on the soft tyres and Alonso on the harder ones. He also had an amazing start and a great pass on Raikkonen early on, not to mention how well he defended against him (causing Kimi to damage his front wing slightly).

In both cases he had very strong pace: in China he lost it because of the strategy, whilst in Bahrain he was legitimately faster than Alonso. You can't ask him to do any better than that with something as horrible as the F2012.

As for the race itself, money's on Lotus and McLaren. Grosjean and Vettel will struggle, Webber will somehow finish 4th again. Either Kimi or Lewis will win the race, with Hamilton taking the lead in the championship in either case. Both Maccas will finish on the podium. I expect Mercedes to struggle again and for Alonso to bring it home in a better than usual position again. Only 5th this time, but the newfound pace of the Ferrari will be clear for all to see as Felipe finishes in 7th.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 May 2012, 17:52

East Londoner wrote:A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

Bathplug off Rossi :evil:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 05 May 2012, 17:54

kostas22 wrote:
East Londoner wrote:A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

Bathplug off Rossi

Haha. What's your problem with him anyway?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 May 2012, 17:55

AdrianSutil wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
East Londoner wrote:A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

Bathplug off Rossi

Haha. What's your problem with him anyway?

No comment.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 05 May 2012, 19:23

AdrianSutil wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
East Londoner wrote:A week away from the race weekend itself, and we have news which will not impress Kostas

Alexander Rossi to drive in practice.

Bathplug off Rossi

Haha. What's your problem with him anyway?

He's not Kovaleinen.

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 05 May 2012, 23:20

This GP already sounds like the dullest of the season. I think i know what my ROTR nomination will be.

And on the subject of Force Indias being edited out of Bahrain, wasn't the official explanation that they advertised liquor on the cars? Unless they put a certain prophet of a certain religion on the livery they ought to be safe for spain. And i'm not talking about Joseph Smith...

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 06 May 2012, 03:21

Sublime_FA11C wrote:This GP already sounds like the dullest of the season. I think i know what my ROTR nomination will be.

And on the subject of Force Indias being edited out of Bahrain, wasn't the official explanation that they advertised liquor on the cars? Unless they put a certain prophet of a certain religion on the livery they ought to be safe for spain. And i'm not talking about Joseph Smith...

Just wait until Valencia comes around...

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 06 May 2012, 03:29

JeremyMcClean wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:This GP already sounds like the dullest of the season. I think i know what my ROTR nomination will be.

And on the subject of Force Indias being edited out of Bahrain, wasn't the official explanation that they advertised liquor on the cars? Unless they put a certain prophet of a certain religion on the livery they ought to be safe for spain. And i'm not talking about Joseph Smith...

Just wait until Valencia comes around...

I actually don't think this race will be that bad, not great but not that terrible either.

Post by **mario** » 06 May 2012, 10:13

Sublime_FA11C wrote:This GP already sounds like the dullest of the season. I think i know what my ROTR nomination will be.

And on the subject of Force Indias being edited out of Bahrain, wasn't the official explanation that they advertised liquor on the cars? Unless they put a certain prophet of a certain religion on the livery they ought to be safe for spain. And i'm not talking about Joseph Smith...

I do believe that Bernie hinted at that being one particular reason why Force India might not have been shown (perhaps not entirely unlikely - McLaren, for example, removed the "Johnnie Walker" logo in previous years, when competing in Bahrain), although IIRC Force India weren't the only team to have had minimal attention paid to them in qualifying, either this time or in previous races - compared to their rivals, how often do you see any other team outside the top five major teams in qualifying?

Pamphlet wrote:As for the race itself, money's on Lotus and McLaren. Grosjean and Vettel will struggle, Webber will somehow finish 4th again. Either Kimi or Lewis will win the race, with Hamilton taking the lead in the championship in either case. Both Maccas will finish on the podium. I expect Mercedes to struggle again and for Alonso to bring it home in a better than usual position again. Only 5th this time, but the newfound pace of the Ferrari will be clear for all to see as Felipe finishes in 7th.

Kimi looks increasingly confident on the back of his success in Bahrain - he strongly believes that he can finish consistently on the podium for the rest of this season, and fancies his chances of victory in Barcelona. That said, he has conceded that Lotus are not bringing any major upgrades to Barcelona, so perhaps that might put him at a slight disadvantage (he mentioned that the lack of upgrades for Barcelona was one reason why he didn't mind not testing at Mugello, since Lotus were mainly garnering set up data). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99360

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 06 May 2012, 11:16

mario wrote:he strongly believes that he can finish consistently on the podium for the rest of this season

So does Grosjean, mind you. If anything, that serves to hint towards how strong Lotus seem to be.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 06 May 2012, 15:07

TheBigJ wrote:He's not Kovaleinen.

True, but he is an American and if Formula 1 is to succeed in America we need a reasonable American driver and at this moment in time, he appears to be the best bet. Although he is no Scott Speed.

Post by **mario** » 06 May 2012, 16:26

Pamphlet wrote:
mario wrote:he strongly believes that he can finish consistently on the podium for the rest of this season

So does Grosjean, mind you. If anything, that serves to hint towards how strong Lotus seem to be.

Lotus have indeed made good progress compared to last year, and moreover so far they have actually been able to keep up with their rivals rather than fall back (if anything, they are gaining ground). In one critical respect, the car is the polar opposite of its predecessor - it is reportedly very easy to set up, with the team having to make very few adjustments from one circuit to the next for them to perform, and the aero parts are performing much more predictably and consistently on track.

Faustus wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:He's not Kovaleinen.

True, but he is an American and if Formula 1 is to succeed in America we need a reasonable American driver and at this moment in time, he appears to be the best bet. Although he is no Scott Speed.

You've left that comment open to being interpreted in very different ways...

On a series note, you are right that there are not that many drivers from the US currently competing in Europe that are reasonably competitive and would be potentially eligible for a super licence - there are no American drivers in the GP2 series (I think the only American ever to have driven in GP2 was Scott Speed), and over in the FR 3.5 series, the only other currently active American national is Jake Rosenzweig, although he is virtually half British (he was born in London, still lives part of the year in London, and spent most of his early career in the UK and Europe). There do not seem to be that many drivers from the US who wish to compete in the European series (and it is manly the European series that the current teams look to for up and coming drivers), so to a certain extent there aren't really that many alternatives to turn to.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 06 May 2012, 16:40

Faustus wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:He's not Kovaleinen.

True, but he is an American and if Formula 1 is to succeed in America we need a reasonable American driver and at this moment in time, he appears to be the best bet. Although he is no Scott Speed.

You've left that comment open to being interpreted in very different ways...

On a series note, you are right that there are not that many drivers from the US currently competing in Europe that are reasonably competitive and would be potentially eligible for a super licence - there are no American drivers in the GP2 series (I think the only American ever to have driven in GP2 was Scott Speed), and over in the FR 3.5 series, the only other currently active American national is Jake Rosenzweig, although he is virtually half British (he was born in London, still lives part of the year in London, and spent most of his early career in the UK and Europe). There do not seem to be that many drivers from the US who wish to compete in the European series (and it is manly the European series that the current teams look to for up and coming drivers), so to a certain extent there aren't really that many alternatives to turn to.[/quote]

I certainly did it leave it open to interpretation. For all his faults, Scott Speed was a nice guy but perhaps out of his depth. He struggled in his season and a half with Toro Rosso and Red Bull had a lot of drivers at a time, so even though he had some reasonable results (although no points) it was probably bound to happen sooner or later. Without Red Bull he wouldn't have made it to Formula 1 and didn't have any sponsorship to get him a drive elesewhere.
I think Rossi already has a Super Licence, doesn't he? Didn't his Twitter account used to say something like 'only American driver with a Super Licence'?
Rossi might be the only choice for a couple of years, as there are some potentially decent drivers coming through.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 06 May 2012, 21:21

Rossi is doomed to rejectdom because he's driving for Caterham...

Sponge · Post by **Sponge** » 06 May 2012, 22:35

Isn't any Champion of the premier open wheel class of America ie: indycars eligible for a super license?

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 06 May 2012, 23:22

Sponge wrote:Isn't any Champion of the premier open wheel class of America ie: indycars eligible for a super license?

Trouble is there are no Americans winning it!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 May 2012, 23:30

Shadaza wrote:
Sponge wrote:Isn't any Champion of the premier open wheel class of America ie: indycars eligible for a super license?

Trouble is there are no Americans winning it!

Yeah, and the only Americans in the last few years who've won it (Sam Hornish Jr) or come close (AJ Allmendinger) are both wasting their talent in NASCAR. And I don't think Hornish would've transferred that well to F1 anyway...

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 07 May 2012, 03:09

I think Ryan Hunter-Reay could qualify for a super license. He has won a race in the previous two seasons, and has shown he's competitive. Does that qualify him to drive on Friday, or at least test?

Post by **mario** » 07 May 2012, 08:39

Faustus wrote:I certainly did it leave it open to interpretation. For all his faults, Scott Speed was a nice guy but perhaps out of his depth. He struggled in his season and a half with Toro Rosso and Red Bull had a lot of drivers at a time, so even though he had some reasonable results (although no points) it was probably bound to happen sooner or later. Without Red Bull he wouldn't have made it to Formula 1 and didn't have any sponsorship to get him a drive elesewhere.
I think Rossi already has a Super Licence, doesn't he? Didn't his Twitter account used to say something like 'only American driver with a Super Licence'?
Rossi might be the only choice for a couple of years, as there are some potentially decent drivers coming through.

You're right that Rossi already has a super licence - he was issued with one after completing a test for the BMW-Sauber team as his prize for winning the Formula BMW series, and so far seems to be the only American driver who still has one. I mentioned Jake Rosenzweig as I think he is probably the only other up and coming American driver in a European racing series who could become eligible for a super licence via his participation in the FR 3.5 series since, as you point out yourself, most of the other young American drivers are currently not in a high enough series to qualify.

Sponge wrote:Isn't any Champion of the premier open wheel class of America ie: indycars eligible for a super license?

The exact clause in the regulations is slightly looser - any driver who has "been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years" would be eligible, although if that means the top four championship finishers, that still wouldn't include any American drivers (the highest ranked American driver in 2011 and 2010 was Ryan Hunter-Reay, and in both years he was in 7th place).
That said, F1000X, Ryan Hunter-Reay would potentially be eligible for a super licence if he took part in a test session at some point this year, since the FIA are prepared to issue a super licence to a driver who has demonstrated that they are capable of driving a single seater car competitively and safely (provided that it is backed up with a test session).

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 May 2012, 11:03

mario wrote:
Faustus wrote:I certainly did it leave it open to interpretation. For all his faults, Scott Speed was a nice guy but perhaps out of his depth. He struggled in his season and a half with Toro Rosso and Red Bull had a lot of drivers at a time, so even though he had some reasonable results (although no points) it was probably bound to happen sooner or later. Without Red Bull he wouldn't have made it to Formula 1 and didn't have any sponsorship to get him a drive elesewhere.
I think Rossi already has a Super Licence, doesn't he? Didn't his Twitter account used to say something like 'only American driver with a Super Licence'?
Rossi might be the only choice for a couple of years, as there are some potentially decent drivers coming through.

You're right that Rossi already has a super licence - he was issued with one after completing a test for the BMW-Sauber team as his prize for winning the Formula BMW series, and so far seems to be the only American driver who still has one. I mentioned Jake Rosenzweig as I think he is probably the only other up and coming American driver in a European racing series who could become eligible for a super licence via his participation in the FR 3.5 series since, as you point out yourself, most of the other young American drivers are currently not in a high enough series to qualify.

I think Alexander Rossi is a pretty decent bet for an American driver in F1. He is a talented driver who won the BMW World Final announcing himself in Europe. He then had a pretty good rookie year in FR3.5 last year (finished 3rd). Being American in these times (when F1 has announced 2 races in the States) is the 2nd most sought innate characteristic in F1 after being a Woman and just edging being Chinese. I think that, regardless of what happens this year (he was a bit disappointing in the first FR3.5 weekend), he will drive in F1 in the near future with results that will depend on his chosen team although I think he has the talent to have a successful career.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 07 May 2012, 15:57

Rossi doesn't have the mindset to succeed in F1. He's stroppy, indecisive. He lacks mettle. Drivers who lack conviction never win championships, you can see that from WRC for example. Would he win a race in a Red Bull? Perhaps. But in the race for the championship Vettel would crush him.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 May 2012, 16:31

kostas22 wrote:Rossi doesn't have the mindset to succeed in F1. He's stroppy, indecisive. He lacks mettle. Drivers who lack conviction never win championships, you can see that from WRC for example. Would he win a race in a Red Bull? Perhaps. But in the race for the championship Vettel would crush him.

I see you think highly of him. :roll:

I think he might make it. To win a championship? That will depend on many things...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 May 2012, 16:39

I doubt he'll make it much beyond the midfield, if he even gets that far. Regardless of anything else, he just seems to lack the raw pace.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 07 May 2012, 17:13

I hope he a) gets a F1 drive and b) Is actually fairly successful.

It's about time America gave us a half-decent driver. Scott Speed was rather poor and before him we had Michael Andretti, and we all know how that turned up. American drivers in the past have been fairly successful (Mario Andretti for obvious example), but the future looks a bit bleak if Rossi doesn't make the cut.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 07 May 2012, 17:58

AdrianSutil wrote:I hope he a) gets a F1 drive and b) Is actually fairly successful.

It's about time America gave us a half-decent driver. Scott Speed was rather poor and before him we had Michael Andretti, and we all know how that turned up. American drivers in the past have been fairly successful (Mario Andretti for obvious example), but the future looks a bit bleak if Rossi doesn't make the cut.

Back in Mario's day, and even Micheal's, there were lots of talented American drivers in CART. Nowadays though, there is less American talent in IndyCar, and what's there won't come to race in Europe. I guess American drivers would rather race in NASCRAP or IndyCar, not come to Europe, work their way up through all the categories, and they maybe be in contention for a drive at a HRT.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 May 2012, 18:02

pasta_maldonado wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:I hope he a) gets a F1 drive and b) Is actually fairly successful.

It's about time America gave us a half-decent driver. Scott Speed was rather poor and before him we had Michael Andretti, and we all know how that turned up. American drivers in the past have been fairly successful (Mario Andretti for obvious example), but the future looks a bit bleak if Rossi doesn't make the cut.

Back in Mario's day, and even Micheal's, there were lots of talented American drivers in CART. Nowadays though, there is less American talent in IndyCar, and what's there won't come to race in Europe. I guess American drivers would rather race in NASCRAP or IndyCar, not come to Europe, work their way up through all the categories, and they maybe be in contention for a drive at a HRT.

If you are going to be hopeless, it is better to be it at home instead of abroad! :lol:

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 07 May 2012, 18:59

Well, to the joy of The Whole Spanish Press, the Spanish GP will be exciting for once, since it will finally showcase the real pecking order in F1 this year. Am I going to watch it? No, I'll be with my girlfriend.

And the less said about the Valencia GP, the better.

Post by **mario** » 07 May 2012, 20:39

DanielPT wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:I hope he a) gets a F1 drive and b) Is actually fairly successful.

It's about time America gave us a half-decent driver. Scott Speed was rather poor and before him we had Michael Andretti, and we all know how that turned up. American drivers in the past have been fairly successful (Mario Andretti for obvious example), but the future looks a bit bleak if Rossi doesn't make the cut.

Back in Mario's day, and even Micheal's, there were lots of talented American drivers in CART. Nowadays though, there is less American talent in IndyCar, and what's there won't come to race in Europe. I guess American drivers would rather race in NASCRAP or IndyCar, not come to Europe, work their way up through all the categories, and they maybe be in contention for a drive at a HRT.

If you are going to be hopeless, it is better to be it at home instead of abroad!

Plus, working your way up the ladder in the US series would probably be a cheaper proposition compared to the equivalent European series, not to mention that it'd probably be easier to find financial backing in the US than Europe at the moment.

Back to the topic of the race itself - Pirelli have announced that they intend to go against their recent strategy by bringing the hard and soft tyres to Barcelona, so there will be two steps in the tyre compound rather than just one, to encourage the teams to take more risks with their strategies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99433

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 07 May 2012, 21:50

mario wrote:Back to the topic of the race itself - Pirelli have announced that they intend to go against their recent strategy by bringing the hard and soft tyres to Barcelona, so there will be two steps in the tyre compound rather than just one, to encourage the teams to take more risks with their strategies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99433

Didn't Pirelli bring the soft and hard compounds to Barcelona last year as well?

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 08 May 2012, 00:47

Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:Back to the topic of the race itself - Pirelli have announced that they intend to go against their recent strategy by bringing the hard and soft tyres to Barcelona, so there will be two steps in the tyre compound rather than just one, to encourage the teams to take more risks with their strategies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99433

Didn't Pirelli bring the soft and hard compounds to Barcelona last year as well?

Anything to make the race more interesting, I suppose. I'm not sure anything can make the Spanish GP exciting other than rain.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 May 2012, 09:17

tristan1117 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:Back to the topic of the race itself - Pirelli have announced that they intend to go against their recent strategy by bringing the hard and soft tyres to Barcelona, so there will be two steps in the tyre compound rather than just one, to encourage the teams to take more risks with their strategies. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99433

Didn't Pirelli bring the soft and hard compounds to Barcelona last year as well?

Anything to make the race more interesting, I suppose. I'm not sure anything can make the Spanish GP exciting other than rain.

Today's weather forecast for Sunday is 60% rain. I expect no clouds on the horizon and a scorching heat then...

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 08 May 2012, 09:25

DanielPT wrote:
tristan1117 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:[quo

Didn't Pirelli bring the soft and hard compounds to Barcelona last year as well?

Anything to make the race more interesting, I suppose. I'm not sure anything can make the Spanish GP exciting other than rain.

Today's weather forecast for Sunday is 60% rain. I expect no clouds on the horizon and a scorching heat then...

If Spanish weathermen are as accurate as the Spanish press then you are probably right.