Good things and Bad things about the year so far

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mario
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by mario »

One thing that is getting a bit tiresome this year is the endemic bickering this year about technical developments - take, as one example, the recent row over the front suspension design of the RB8, which the FIA ordered Red Bull to modify because they felt that it potentially breached the requirement for suspension setups to only be adjustable by tool rather than by hand.
Whilst Red Bull have denied attempting to adjust the front suspension settings by hand (although they have implicitly accepted that it was possible for somebody to adjust it by hand), Marko has, predictably, launched his own barrage of criticism against the FIA and other teams, accusing Ferrari of using a similar system on their car since last year. For the record, Ferrari themselves have utterly rejected Marko's claims:
Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko has not only denied his team ever made changes to its car's set-up by hand - but he has also questioned why his team aroused suspicion because he claimed Ferrari had run an identical design.
Speaking to Auto Motor Und Sport, Marko said: "We have never adjusted anything by hand. I don't know why the others are upset – we know Ferrari has used something like that for a year."

But Ferrari says Marko's claims are incorrect – and that the outfit has never run anything like that. "This is completely untrue," a team spokesman told AUTOSPORT in reference to Marko's comments.
When asked for a response to Red Bull's suggestions that it broke the rules, the Ferrari spokesman added: "Did they really accuse us of cheating? Are you sure? Anyway, we have all the confidence in the FIA's role to make sure all the regulations are fully respected."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690

In fact, it is somewhat tempting to change that to Helmut Marko, since, if we are honest, his comments this season have been spectacularly over the top at times - the FIA were, at one point, threatening to take action against Marko when he started making comments to the German press accusing the FIA of manipulating the WDC this year by hindering Red Bull.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by pasta_maldonado »

mario wrote:One thing that is getting a bit tiresome this year is the endemic bickering this year about technical developments - take, as one example, the recent row over the front suspension design of the RB8, which the FIA ordered Red Bull to modify because they felt that it potentially breached the requirement for suspension setups to only be adjustable by tool rather than by hand.
Whilst Red Bull have denied attempting to adjust the front suspension settings by hand (although they have implicitly accepted that it was possible for somebody to adjust it by hand), Marko has, predictably, launched his own barrage of criticism against the FIA and other teams, accusing Ferrari of using a similar system on their car since last year. For the record, Ferrari themselves have utterly rejected Marko's claims:
Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko has not only denied his team ever made changes to its car's set-up by hand - but he has also questioned why his team aroused suspicion because he claimed Ferrari had run an identical design.
Speaking to Auto Motor Und Sport, Marko said: "We have never adjusted anything by hand. I don't know why the others are upset – we know Ferrari has used something like that for a year."

But Ferrari says Marko's claims are incorrect – and that the outfit has never run anything like that. "This is completely untrue," a team spokesman told AUTOSPORT in reference to Marko's comments.
When asked for a response to Red Bull's suggestions that it broke the rules, the Ferrari spokesman added: "Did they really accuse us of cheating? Are you sure? Anyway, we have all the confidence in the FIA's role to make sure all the regulations are fully respected."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690

In fact, it is somewhat tempting to change that to Helmut Marko, since, if we are honest, his comments this season have been spectacularly over the top at times - the FIA were, at one point, threatening to take action against Marko when he started making comments to the German press accusing the FIA of manipulating the WDC this year by hindering Red Bull.

I don't see why the FIA would ban adjusting suspension set up by hand - if the hand belongs to an engineer, working on the car in the garage, what is the problem?
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by DemocalypseNow »

Here's an idea how to solve the technical bickering about the RB8;

Ban Red Bull. Do everyone else a favour.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by dr-baker »

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
golic_2004 wrote:Definitely the bad thing about the year so far would have to be Maria de Villota's very serious testing crash that cost her her right eye. :cry:

This, definitely.

And time for a bit of controversy:
Good thing: Schumacher has not yet won a race since his comeback.
Bad thing: Schumacher has now scored a podium.


I can't agree more, though you seem to have forgotten that Schumacher hasn't hung up the helmet yet is a bad thing.

I'm still hoping that that will still happen!
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by mario »

pasta_maldonado wrote:
mario wrote:One thing that is getting a bit tiresome this year is the endemic bickering this year about technical developments - take, as one example, the recent row over the front suspension design of the RB8, which the FIA ordered Red Bull to modify because they felt that it potentially breached the requirement for suspension setups to only be adjustable by tool rather than by hand.
Whilst Red Bull have denied attempting to adjust the front suspension settings by hand (although they have implicitly accepted that it was possible for somebody to adjust it by hand), Marko has, predictably, launched his own barrage of criticism against the FIA and other teams, accusing Ferrari of using a similar system on their car since last year. For the record, Ferrari themselves have utterly rejected Marko's claims:
Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko has not only denied his team ever made changes to its car's set-up by hand - but he has also questioned why his team aroused suspicion because he claimed Ferrari had run an identical design.
Speaking to Auto Motor Und Sport, Marko said: "We have never adjusted anything by hand. I don't know why the others are upset – we know Ferrari has used something like that for a year."

But Ferrari says Marko's claims are incorrect – and that the outfit has never run anything like that. "This is completely untrue," a team spokesman told AUTOSPORT in reference to Marko's comments.
When asked for a response to Red Bull's suggestions that it broke the rules, the Ferrari spokesman added: "Did they really accuse us of cheating? Are you sure? Anyway, we have all the confidence in the FIA's role to make sure all the regulations are fully respected."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690

In fact, it is somewhat tempting to change that to Helmut Marko, since, if we are honest, his comments this season have been spectacularly over the top at times - the FIA were, at one point, threatening to take action against Marko when he started making comments to the German press accusing the FIA of manipulating the WDC this year by hindering Red Bull.

I don't see why the FIA would ban adjusting suspension set up by hand - if the hand belongs to an engineer, working on the car in the garage, what is the problem?

The problem occurs when the car is outside of the garage and in parc ferme, where the teams are allowed to work on a car to repair any damaged components (say, a failed KERS battery or loose padding in the cockpit) between qualifying and the start of the race.

The reason the FIA insists on tools being needed is simple - it is an anti-cheating mechanism that the FIA imposed to prevent the teams from running the cars as close as they dare in qualifying and then raising the front ride height whilst in parc ferme to prevent excessive wear of the front of the floor in race trim once you add ~130kg of fuel. In effect, running such a system could allow the teams to evade some of the parc ferme regulations and gain an advantage in both qualifying and race trim (since they would not have to compromise their set up), which is why it is such a major issue.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by pasta_maldonado »

Thank you for clearing that up mario :)
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Bleu »

Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

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Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.

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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

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Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.


I... what? Then what was he trying to do!?
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

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BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.


I... what? Then what was he trying to do!?

Probably taking a closer look at the front suspension layout...
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by DemocalypseNow »

AdrianSutil wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.


I... what? Then what was he trying to do!?

Probably taking a closer look at the front suspension layout...

Or helping the Williams FW19 pass its EuroNCAP side-impact tests.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Nuppiz »

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.


I... what? Then what was he trying to do!?

Maybe he thought that JV was about to run wide, and decided to nudge him back in the right direction.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by pasta_maldonado »

Nuppiz wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:Schumacher admitted that Jerez 1997 was his fault but he didn't admit intention of taking Villeneuve out.


I... what? Then what was he trying to do!?

Maybe he thought that JV was about to run wide, and decided to nudge him back in the right direction.

How considerate :lol: "Yes, I did intentionally drive into Mr Villeneuve, but you see, I sensed he was about to run wide, and we can't have that, can we?..."
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Dj_bereta »

Good Things:

-Vettel's dominance is gone.
-The cars are very close in performance.
-Finally Williams won a GP.
-Maldonado ramming Hamilton. :mrgreen:
-Lotus performance.
-Narain Karthikeyan still in the grid.

Bad Things:

-The gap in the championship table between Alonso and the others
-Some decisions by Stewards/Race control which indirectly contributed to Alonso's large lead.
-The gap between Marussia/HRT and the rest of the grid
-Any driver rammed Alonso and Vettel yet.
-Massa's performance.
-Lack of drivers like Jason Plato.
-Hermann Tilke tracks.
-Hungaroring.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Dj_bereta wrote:-Lack of drivers like Jason Plato.


Isn't that what Maldonado's for? :lol:
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by RealRacingRoots »

The Good:
-Variety of Winners
-Unpredictability ("Lottery Races" to quote Vettel)
-Malaysian Grand Prix
-Nico Rosberg finally winning
-Vettel has only won once, and Webber has won one more time then Vettel
-Romain Grosjean

The Bad:
-Inconsistency in Pirelli Tires
-Lack of Unreliability in cars (See my post above http://www.f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5134#p171339)
-Lack of Rain during races (The best race of the season had rain, imagine that)
-Pastor Maldonado when he's not winning. (Except for Valencia 2012, 50/50 crash thar)
-Vettel flipping the bird at Kartikeyan, and the rest of his temper.

The Ugly:
-Caterham not delivering on promise
-DRS being misused (See Canada 2012)
-Inconsistency in Steward Judgements
(Run Illegal car- no penalty
Ram another car on purpose - 5 place drop
Change gearbox - 10 place drop
Run out of fuel in qualifying, start 24th
AND MANY OTHERS)
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by QuickYoda41 »

Good and Bad

Sauber score two podiums 8-) - although none of them scored by Kobayashi :(
Raikkonen is back in great form 8-) - no win so far though :(
Unpredictability of races/winners 8-) - this is fading fast, and Alonso is way too much in front now :(
Webber is still ahead of Seb in WDC 8-) - but hes doesn't seem to be consistent enough for the title, especially after that article :(
Williams wins a race 8-) - but by a crazy crash-machine of all people :( (just to be clear I wouldn't be much happier with a Senna-win, I just thought through who had seats in Williams since Brazil 2004)
Caterham having two drivers capable of scoring now 8-) - none of them has managed so far :(
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by mario »

I've seen that a few posters are concerned that Alonso's current lead in the WDC will prove to be insurmountable by the chasing pack, but I would argue that, in some ways, Alonso's lead is still a little precarious.

Alonso does have the luxury of being able to finish out of the points in at least one race and still be in the lead of the WDC, but it would only take a few races like Hungary, where he did everything right and only finished in 5th place, to see that lead quickly vanish.

Lotus are looking increasingly strong - even if they haven't taken that elusive win yet, Kimi has finished on the podium three times in the past four races and heavily outscored Hamilton, Webber and Vettel in the past four races as a result. With Spa, Kimi's favourite circuit coming up and surely one of his best chances for a victory this season (Suzuka looks to be the other venue given how well the car works in high speed bends), a steady string of podiums would see him in very good shape for the title - especially since Lotus's current developments should boost their qualifying performance, one of the few areas where they have been weaker this year.
Speaking of development strategies, Lotus themselves seem to think that they might as well go for broke this year - they have said that they will push development of the E20 for much longer this season than normal, because they believe that Kimi can take the WDC this year. They seem to also fancy their chances in the WCC too - they are only one point behind McLaren, and even Red Bull is within potential reach given their recent slight drop in form (let us not forget that Grosjean is still picking up a decent number of points too, being joint equal with Button in the WDC).
Technical director James Allison told Sky Sports News on Friday that his outfit has realised that its form in recent years suffered from it electing to shift its resource on to the following year's cars - something it is not intending to do this season.
"One of the things that our team has got a little bit wrong in the last couple of seasons is that we have been too ready to switch over to the new car a little bit too soon," he said. "So we started this year consciously intending to develop this one a bit longer than normal."

Although Raikkonen is 48 points adrift of points leader Fernando Alonso, Allison thinks there is everything to play for in the championship – especially with a driver capable of securing 225 points over the remainder of the season.
When asked about the chances of Raikkonen being champion, Allison said: "Why not? There are an awful lot of points for coming first and there are a lot of races to be done. The lead is minuscule compared to the points available."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101702

McLaren, too, are not exactly out of the fight - Button may be out of the title fight now, since that mid season slump in form has cost him dearly, but Hamilton is still in a pretty solid position and the recent upgrades they have brought have pushed them much closer to the front. The one drawback for McLaren is likely to be their tyre wear, which still seems to be on the high side compared to their rivals, and should there be a repeat of their earlier drop in form (as happened around Silverstone), Hamilton might start dropping out of contention too.
Red Bull, similarly, are not out of contention, although I think that there is still a slight question about how they will respond to their recent situation. It is hard to say whether the recent technical changes they have had to make have had any noticeable impact - Vettel was still competitive in qualifying, and although not brilliant in race trim was still fairly competitive - and although they haven't been quite on the same sort of form for the past few races, they are still in a solid position.

Now, Alonso is currently in a position where he has the luxury that his rivals are scrapping amongst themselves and potentially taking points away from each other, plus the F2012 is now a lot more competitive than it was in the opening rounds (even if I would argue that it is still probably slightly inferior to the RB8, MP4/27 and E20, just that the recent conditions in the races and good strategy calls by the team have flattered it slightly). Still, if Ferrari cannot keep in in terms of development or just one strategy call goes awry big time (e.g. like in Hungary last year, where Hamilton and Webber incorrectly gambled on intermediates when what turned out to be just a brief shower hit the track and tumbled down the running order), he could be very quickly caught - so I wouldn't say that Alonso has this title bought and paid for just yet...
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

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QuickYoda41 wrote:Williams wins a race 8-) - but by a crazy crash-machine of all people :( (just to be clear I wouldn't be much happier with a Senna-win, I just thought through who had seats in Williams since Brazil 2004)


Before Maldonado's win, Nick Heidfeld was probably closest to winning for Williams, it shows how underwhelming they've been.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

redbulljack14 wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:Williams wins a race 8-) - but by a crazy crash-machine of all people :( (just to be clear I wouldn't be much happier with a Senna-win, I just thought through who had seats in Williams since Brazil 2004)


Before Maldonado's win, Nick Heidfeld was probably closest to winning for Williams, it shows how underwhelming they've been.


I think both Webber (Monaco 2006) and Rosberg (Singapore 2008/09) got closer than quick Nick ever did.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by QuickYoda41 »

Well, Nick was only a Mercedes-blow away from the win in Monaco 2005 which wouldn't have been that big of a surprise. Still, you're probably right in placing 'Monaco 06 and Singapore '09 closer to the win.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by WaffleCat »

Wizzie wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:Williams wins a race 8-) - but by a crazy crash-machine of all people :( (just to be clear I wouldn't be much happier with a Senna-win, I just thought through who had seats in Williams since Brazil 2004)


Before Maldonado's win, Nick Heidfeld was probably closest to winning for Williams, it shows how underwhelming they've been.


I think both Webber (Monaco 2006) and Rosberg (Singapore 2008/09) got closer than quick Nick ever did.


I have this wierd spot in my mind that Alex Wurz was actually the closest to a Williams win in Canada '07.

Mind you,Rosberg was cruising away in Singapore even with the safety car of Crashgate until the drive-through.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by AdrianSutil »

Your right about canada 07. With everything going on, even Anthony Davidson was on course for a podium until he hit the local wildlife. Monaco 06? Wasn't that the race where Webber's engine detonated whilst in 3rd?
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by mario »

AdrianSutil wrote:Your right about canada 07. With everything going on, even Anthony Davidson was on course for a podium until he hit the local wildlife. Monaco 06? Wasn't that the race where Webber's engine detonated whilst in 3rd?

The race reports for the 2006 Monaco GP seem to suggest that Webber has a catastrophic exhaust failure that set fire to the rear bodywork and wiring looms - you are right that, at the time, Webber was in 3rd place (and, had his exhausts lasted the distance, he could have potentially been in second given that Kimi had to retire from the race with mechanical problems too). From what I can recall of that race, Alonso probably had enough in hand that weekend to have fended off any challenge from Webber for the race win, but he could have taken a very solid podium finish had the car not let him down.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by SuperAguri »

The Good

1982 Levels of winners
I am watching all the races this year, last year I was so bored of the Vettel show that I did not watch most races.
Williams winning again
Sauber looking tasty
Kamikaze Pastor
Raikkonen hitting the gound running
Webber having a good run
Pirellis being a good tyre that do not last the entire race
Schumacher and De La Rosa making me feel young

The Bad

Realisticaly only Raikkonen and Grosjean are the only other drivers to have a realistic chance of winning a race. as the Saubers will probably stay in midfield now and Schumacher has no chance.
Red Bull acting like children when things do not go their way
Hamiltons dad and the number of times he says "You know" when being interviewed
The new podium interviews
The decline in fortunes that Sauber, Williams and Mercedes will have
The bullet proof nature of the cars, random failures should be part of F1. Damnit I want to see races like Monaco 96
The run off areas, they should be more abrasive so that cars would slow down or ruin tyres if they go off.
The lack of Paul Stoddart
The niggling thought at the back of my mind of "Would Lotus be winning races if Kubica was racing"
The lack of Japanese drivers other then Kobayashi.
Caterham not moving forward enough

The Ugly

Stepped noses
Bouncing foot of Horner
Sky having F1, although some parts are better. The BBC is the home of F1
Lack of distinctive paint schemes, only Caterham, Force India and Mercedes are easily identifiable from a distance.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by mario »

SuperAguri wrote:The Bad
[...]
The run off areas, they should be more abrasive so that cars would slow down or ruin tyres if they go off.

It is something that is not exactly satisfactory, but it is one of those areas where some compromises have to be made because of the fact that, for the majority of the circuits on the calendar, an F1 Grand Prix is just one of multiple events that take place throughout the year, all of which have their own differing requirements.
The issue of abrasive run off areas coated in high friction paint is something that has come up before - I admit that I have advocated the same myself - although I have seen one suggestion as to why they aren't always used.
Some circuits - like Silverstone, the Circuit de Catalunya or Sepang - hold Moto GP events, and the safety requirements for Moto GP are, in some ways, more restricting (FIM, the motorcycle equivalent of the FIA, prefer tarmac run off areas since it reduces the chances of a bike digging into the ground and flipping, which would present a greater risk to the rider and marshals). If a rider was to fall off from his bike at a moderately high speed and slid across a surface painted with high friction paint, that could increase the risk of an injury - so, considering factors like that, it has to be borne in mind that any measures imposed to curtail certain actions in one series, like F1, would have to be done in a way that wouldn't raise the risk for other series with differing safety requirements.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by SuperAguri »

However apart from cost issues there is no reason why an abrasive surface could not be added and removed before and after F1 races.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by tommykl »

Wait, doesn't Paul Ricard have abrasive run-off areas?
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by AdrianSutil »

tommykl wrote:Wait, doesn't Paul Ricard have abrasive run-off areas?

Pretty sure it does. I think there's different coloured Tarmac on the run-off areas to indicate how abrasive that area is (heavier areas for heavy braking into slow corners etc)
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by RealRacingRoots »

SuperAguri wrote:The Ugly:

Stepped noses


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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by sswishbone »

Being friends with a race marshal I completely agree that all should be done to protect these guys. I do think though that perhaps they could shape the tarmac areas better, like have them narrowly sharply to a point. I'll give you an example, at Copse the run off area is nearly as wide as the track and remains so almost until the right hander that starts the triple chicane. Why not have it so that at the start of the corner there is a wide run off, but that it narrows very sharply towards the track? That way if a driver outbrakes himself he has extra room to pull in line with the track and not flip over or whatever, but cannot just coast onto the track whilst increasing speed all the way. and potentially gain an advantage.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Alianora La Canta »

Good:

- Some people are doing well in some races that normally wouldn't stand a chance in any of them

- Close championship battle

- Variety in technical designs (I don't mind the resultant bickering because variety is supposed to be the spice of F1)

- The "little" teams are catching the rest, year on year, albeit fairly slowly

- Pérez is getting better pretty much every race

- Raikkonen is doing some great driving

- Ferrari letting all its drivers use Twitter. For me, that was the surprise of the season.

Bad:

- Maria de Villota's accident in testing

- Pastor Maldonado's lack of respect for the track or anything on it

- The stewards' inconsistent rulings (then again, what's new?)

- Massa's gradual slide through the exit door at Ferrari

- Being able to predict the correct tyre strategy over 12 months in advance and seeing nearly everyone else apparently unable to do so. My parents have also figured out the correct strategy, including mum (who can barely remember how many compounds are allowed each weekend), so seeing that neither the teams nor the commentators have figured out that hard-hard-soft with tyre changes at the end of the 3rd consecutive time-losing lap is the optimal strategy for any dry race where the competitor in question is not on pole is... ...quite frustrating, to say the least

- Being able to predict the winner at the end of qualifying, and pretty much everyone else's fate (retirements and subsequent mechanical failures excepted) on lap 3 (again, also seeing nearly everyone else unable to do so). I clarify here that I don't mind fellow fans not being able to predict it, but it is bothersome when hundreds of people paid to understand these things don't, when three people watching from home with the minimum of "assistance" and varying degrees of attention can. I suspect a lot of the other people who were in a similar situation at the start of the year have turned off completely. And yes, I've had the "you must be a millionaire from gambling" line thrown at me by a journalist who didn't grasp the point, and my response is that it's immoral to make profit from things that hurt the sport you claim to support (in my view, the predictability is hurting the sport, it just doesn't realise it yet)

- Lousy viewing provision. Live timing hasn't worked all year because it plain refuses to load (in fairness, it didn't work in 2011 for me either), half the live races are on a service it would cost me £120,000 to get (plus subscription fee), the other half are on a service that apparently can no longer recruit a commentator capable of talking (as opposed to screaming or mumbling - and DC is excepted from that specific criticism) and sometimes doesn't even manage to provide the service (some laps of the Spanish Grand Prix, for example, were lost because the transmission didn't come through)

- Dumbed-down media, that assumes everyone will miss the obvious and is a mindless fan of one of Hamilton, Alonso, Schumacher or Raikkonen (there doesn't even appear to be anything for mindless fans of other drivers, let alone people who are capable of making their own minds up about things)

And the biggest one:

- The FIA deciding to ignore a blatant breach of Article 1 of its own Statutes (by deciding not to cancel following the Bahrain organisers - a FIA signatory - being caught using political material to promote their race) in a hurry to get a few more [insert currency here] from Bahrain to fund CVC's debt repayments, endangering not only spectators and teams, but its own existence and motorsport's entire infrastructure. All it would take is one country, team or driver to want to make a political statement any time before April 2017 and they could use the Bahrain precedent in a French court to enable them to break the FIA's Statutes (removing the FIA's power to enforce the one thing that binds all FIA-sanctioned activities together) and, en passant, to prove the FIA broke Statute 1 in Bahrain (thus, potentially, getting the FIA closed down, with dramatic consequences)
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by James1978 »

Here's one good one never thought of yet - no team has managed to score a 1-2 yet.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Klon »

Alianora La Canta wrote:- Being able to predict the correct tyre strategy over 12 months in advance and seeing nearly everyone else apparently unable to do so. My parents have also figured out the correct strategy, including mum (who can barely remember how many compounds are allowed each weekend), so seeing that neither the teams nor the commentators have figured out that hard-hard-soft with tyre changes at the end of the 3rd consecutive time-losing lap is the optimal strategy for any dry race where the competitor in question is not on pole is... ...quite frustrating, to say the least.


Yeah ... except no. Changing on the third consecutive time-losing lap is a very stupid idea mostly, especially since the Pirellis still have a very steep degradation: spontaneously waiting for three laps of increased times could easily ruin your race if that increase comes abruptly, a car could in the worst case lose up to 10 seconds before making that stop. Unless your driver happens to be Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso, there is no way these ten seconds could be regained during the later part. Furthermore that would put you in a situation where you'd have to make a move at any cost, even if it would throw you out in traffic or other conditions would make a stop unfeasible. Furthermore, hard-hard-soft can easily lead to the obvious purpose of your strategy (reap the benefits of saving the softer tires for the last part of the race) not working if the time differential between the two compounds given at each weekend is too large or the track does not allow for easy overtaking, making an attempt at saving tires more reasonable: Red Bull's run at the Hungaroring all but confirms that. Furthermore, there are some cars who cannot handle a certain type of tire well, as well as there are drivers who can handle tires well and drivers who cannot.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are not smarter than most teams' strategists.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Klon wrote:
Alianora La Canta wrote:- Being able to predict the correct tyre strategy over 12 months in advance and seeing nearly everyone else apparently unable to do so. My parents have also figured out the correct strategy, including mum (who can barely remember how many compounds are allowed each weekend), so seeing that neither the teams nor the commentators have figured out that hard-hard-soft with tyre changes at the end of the 3rd consecutive time-losing lap is the optimal strategy for any dry race where the competitor in question is not on pole is... ...quite frustrating, to say the least.


Yeah ... except no. Changing on the third consecutive time-losing lap is a very stupid idea mostly, especially since the Pirellis still have a very steep degradation: spontaneously waiting for three laps of increased times could easily ruin your race if that increase comes abruptly, a car could in the worst case lose up to 10 seconds before making that stop. Unless your driver happens to be Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso, there is no way these ten seconds could be regained during the later part. Furthermore that would put you in a situation where you'd have to make a move at any cost, even if it would throw you out in traffic or other conditions would make a stop unfeasible. Furthermore, hard-hard-soft can easily lead to the obvious purpose of your strategy (reap the benefits of saving the softer tires for the last part of the race) not working if the time differential between the two compounds given at each weekend is too large or the track does not allow for easy overtaking, making an attempt at saving tires more reasonable: Red Bull's run at the Hungaroring all but confirms that. Furthermore, there are some cars who cannot handle a certain type of tire well, as well as there are drivers who can handle tires well and drivers who cannot.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are not smarter than most teams' strategists.


And then there's some tracks like Barcelona where the three-stop is the only feasible way to win the race (Just ask Pastor Maldonado). And at SIlverstone, the optimum strategy was to get the softs out of the way as soon as possible as they turned out to be more and more useles as the track rubbered up.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Alianora La Canta »

Klon wrote:
Alianora La Canta wrote:- Being able to predict the correct tyre strategy over 12 months in advance and seeing nearly everyone else apparently unable to do so. My parents have also figured out the correct strategy, including mum (who can barely remember how many compounds are allowed each weekend), so seeing that neither the teams nor the commentators have figured out that hard-hard-soft with tyre changes at the end of the 3rd consecutive time-losing lap is the optimal strategy for any dry race where the competitor in question is not on pole is... ...quite frustrating, to say the least.


Yeah ... except no. Changing on the third consecutive time-losing lap is a very stupid idea mostly, especially since the Pirellis still have a very steep degradation: spontaneously waiting for three laps of increased times could easily ruin your race if that increase comes abruptly, a car could in the worst case lose up to 10 seconds before making that stop. Unless your driver happens to be Sebastian Vettel or Fernando Alonso, there is no way these ten seconds could be regained during the later part. Furthermore that would put you in a situation where you'd have to make a move at any cost, even if it would throw you out in traffic or other conditions would make a stop unfeasible. Furthermore, hard-hard-soft can easily lead to the obvious purpose of your strategy (reap the benefits of saving the softer tires for the last part of the race) not working if the time differential between the two compounds given at each weekend is too large or the track does not allow for easy overtaking, making an attempt at saving tires more reasonable: Red Bull's run at the Hungaroring all but confirms that. Furthermore, there are some cars who cannot handle a certain type of tire well, as well as there are drivers who can handle tires well and drivers who cannot.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you are not smarter than most teams' strategists.


It hasn't been coming that abruptly though - there's been 3-4 laps of losing a tenth or two before the tyres have caved in this year. Last year's compounds fell off the cliff quicker, but these ones don't for some reason.
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by FMecha »

kostas22 wrote:
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by Wallio »

The Good:
Close title fight
Webber not looking psychologically broken anymore
Flashes of the old Schumi
The Pirellis (belongs in the unpopular thread I know)

The Bad:
The FIA banning Red Bull's Floor after it ruled it legal.
Toro Rosso
Pastor
Valencia (as always)
Mclaren pit stops
DRS (too darn gimmicky for me)
Flashes of last year's "WTF R U DOING?" Schumi
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by TomWazzleshaw »

Wallio wrote:Valencia (as always)


Where the hell were you that weekend? :lol:

Valencia was seriously one of the best races all year
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Re: Good things and Bad things about the year so far

Post by AdrianSutil »

Wizzie wrote:
Wallio wrote:Valencia (as always)


Where the hell were you that weekend? :lol:

Valencia was seriously one of the best races all year

One of? Because we all expected to fall asleep by lap 3, and didn't, I'll rank it as the best. Excitement terms anyway.
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