The 2013 Canadian Grand Prix Thread

[kevinbotz]

1) So?
2) In your opinion. In every media interview Ive seen, to me at least, he comes across as as grounded and humble as you can really expect a triple world champion to be.
3)If he did frequent forums, if he did get this 'reality check' he apparently needs, if he did understand what certain people think about him (and you've no idea what he knows) what do you think he should do? Win less races? And I disagree that 'much of the F1 public' dislike him, and you have no evidence to back that up anyway.

Does Vettel deserve respect? In those circumstances yesterday I think he deserves it as much as anybody.

Vettel annoys me because he keeps beating drivers that I want to win but you cant deny that he deserved better than what a small, but vocal, portion of the fans gave him yesterday.

1) To me, what I consider an upper-mid-tier driver walking away with three championships simply because of the machinery (I'm certainly no Alonso fan, but I felt he clearly deserved at least 2012 for dragging the Ferrari into championship contention) isn't just dull to watch, but in the long run bad for the sport as a whole. Although I acknowledge that the technological development has always been a part of F1, when a driver is able to flatten the opposition simply by virtue of what he's in, it makes the role of the drivers ultimately pointless. Although I find the development race interesting, to me personally I adore F1 because of the skills involved by the guys piloting them.
2) It's clearly a facade, as his true nature shows through whenever the pressure is ramped up (and he was blatant about it post-Malaysia when he said Webber didn't 'deserve' to win, despite the fact Webber had got infront of him on nothing but merit). I know this isn't a popularity contest, but that to me seems over the line in terms of lack of respect for one of the elder-statesmen of F1.
3) The polls on F1 fanatic regularly show that Vettel is generally far less popular than his counterparts. However, I will agree with you that I'm not sure what he's supposed to do really to garner respect - maybe shift teams and prove himself in an inferior car? I'm genuinely not sure.

I suppose we'll just have to disagree on whether it was warranted or not, and I certainly understand where you're coming from as I'll be appalled if a non-Ferrari driver is booed at Monza, but to me it was refreshing to see a chink in the armour of Vettel's vastly swollen ego.

1) Again, a subjective position. The man's shown the pace and the consistency to win three consecutive championships. I've never been a Vettel fan, but writing off all three of those championships simply because he's won them in the best car is effectively writing off the vast majority of championships won since the inception of Formula One, including those of the likes of Fangio's, Clark's and Senna's. A factor in assessing the greatness of a driver lies in their ability to place themselves in the right machinery, at the right team, at the right time. Vettel has done just that.

2) Is it? Of course, I'm not a behavioral psychologist, and you might be, but I've my doubts that Vettel is consciously projecting a pretense in some misguided attempt to garner public sympathy. He's a human being, and like all human beings, he probably has multiple facets to his personality. Do I agree with his comments on Webber in China? No. They were completely out of line. But it's not as if he was the first driver to make a controversial statement about another driver, and the comments themselves certainly were not egregious enough to warrant the castigation of him as some irreverent pretender.

3) Successful racing drivers, almost without exception, are extremely egotistical. They need to be; after all, they must be unequivocally assured of their ability, their rightful place in history, and their complete superiority in relation to every other driver on the grid in order to be able to ruthlessly push for a championship. Vettel's move on Webber in Malaysia was undoubtedly unscrupulous, and it will affect the assessment of his career by posterity, but let's not forget how Prost won the '89 championship via political machinations, or Senna in '90 by smashing Prost off the track. Schumacher was, and to some degree, still is notorious for his ruthless behavior on track, which at the very least was a major factor in his extraordinary number of championship wins. As such, champions are often extremely unpopular; dominant champions even more so.

The behavior of my fellow Canadian fans thoroughly disgusted me (at least they were Quebecois, rather than Ontarians). A race win is a major achievement, a dominant performance such as Vettel's even more so. Every race winner should be accorded with begrudging respect at the very least, instead of the petty heckling we saw which was founded on nothing more than prejudiced preferences.

[SgtPepper]

1) So?
2) In your opinion. In every media interview Ive seen, to me at least, he comes across as as grounded and humble as you can really expect a triple world champion to be.
3)If he did frequent forums, if he did get this 'reality check' he apparently needs, if he did understand what certain people think about him (and you've no idea what he knows) what do you think he should do? Win less races? And I disagree that 'much of the F1 public' dislike him, and you have no evidence to back that up anyway.

Does Vettel deserve respect? In those circumstances yesterday I think he deserves it as much as anybody.

Vettel annoys me because he keeps beating drivers that I want to win but you cant deny that he deserved better than what a small, but vocal, portion of the fans gave him yesterday.

1) To me, what I consider an upper-mid-tier driver walking away with three championships simply because of the machinery (I'm certainly no Alonso fan, but I felt he clearly deserved at least 2012 for dragging the Ferrari into championship contention) isn't just dull to watch, but in the long run bad for the sport as a whole. Although I acknowledge that the technological development has always been a part of F1, when a driver is able to flatten the opposition simply by virtue of what he's in, it makes the role of the drivers ultimately pointless. Although I find the development race interesting, to me personally I adore F1 because of the skills involved by the guys piloting them.
2) It's clearly a facade, as his true nature shows through whenever the pressure is ramped up (and he was blatant about it post-Malaysia when he said Webber didn't 'deserve' to win, despite the fact Webber had got infront of him on nothing but merit). I know this isn't a popularity contest, but that to me seems over the line in terms of lack of respect for one of the elder-statesmen of F1.
3) The polls on F1 fanatic regularly show that Vettel is generally far less popular than his counterparts. However, I will agree with you that I'm not sure what he's supposed to do really to garner respect - maybe shift teams and prove himself in an inferior car? I'm genuinely not sure.

I suppose we'll just have to disagree on whether it was warranted or not, and I certainly understand where you're coming from as I'll be appalled if a non-Ferrari driver is booed at Monza, but to me it was refreshing to see a chink in the armour of Vettel's vastly swollen ego.

1) Again, a subjective position. The man's shown the pace and the consistency to win three consecutive championships. I've never been a Vettel fan, but writing off all three of those championships simply because he's won them in the best car is effectively writing off the vast majority of championships won since the inception of Formula One, including those of the likes of Fangio's, Clark's and Senna's. A factor in assessing the greatness of a driver lies in their ability to place themselves in the right machinery, at the right team, at the right time. Vettel has done just that.

2) Is it? Of course, I'm not a behavioral psychologist, and you might be, but I've my doubts that Vettel is consciously projecting a pretense in some misguided attempt to garner public sympathy. He's a human being, and like all human beings, he probably has multiple facets to his personality. Do I agree with his comments on Webber in China? No. They were completely out of line. But it's not as if he was the first driver to make a controversial statement about another driver, and the comments themselves certainly were not egregious enough to warrant the castigation of him as some irreverent pretender.

3) Successful racing drivers, almost without exception, are extremely egotistical. They need to be; after all, they must be unequivocally assured of their ability, their rightful place in history, and their complete superiority in relation to every other driver on the grid in order to be able to ruthlessly push for a championship. Vettel's move on Webber in Malaysia was undoubtedly unscrupulous, and it will affect the assessment of his career by posterity, but let's not forget how Prost won the '89 championship via political machinations, or Senna in '90 by smashing Prost off the track. Schumacher was, and to some degree, still is notorious for his ruthless behavior on track, which at the very least was a major factor in his extraordinary number of championship wins. As such, champions are often extremely unpopular; dominant champions even more so.

The behavior of my fellow Canadian fans thoroughly disgusted me (at least they were Quebecois, rather than Ontarians). A race win is a major achievement, a dominant performance such as Vettel's even more so. Every race winner should be accorded with begrudging respect at the very least, instead of the petty heckling we saw which was founded on nothing more than prejudiced preferences.

1) To me Vettel failed to prove himself in inferior machinery (and in Monza '08, Vettel got lucky with setup/other drivers having issues, and was only 3 positions ahead of the great Sebastien Bourdais) in a Torro Rosso that was effectively as strong as the rest of the front-runners. Surely getting in the right car, at the right time, is a mix of luck, PR and having a good manager?
Also, I tend to feel that looking back on the early 2010s a decade from now, criticising Vettel will be as outrageous as criticising Villeneuve, or saying that Leyton House led the 1990 French Grand Prix because of aerodynamic superiority, and it's merely the recency of the events that make it contentious, but I may be proved wrong in time.

2) I'm not a behavioural pyschologist no, but having studied politics for years (literally, through university etc) I do feel I have a certain amount of ability to spot perhaps disigenuous behaviour. I'll admit you would have to speak to an actual psychologist if you wanted a professional opinion, but I do feel I have a small amount of strength in this area.

3) Also completely agree with you about a driver needing a ruthless streak - but I suspect if I was born, and watching the races at the time between Prost and Senna, I would've felt a similar distaste for tactics used, whatever they were. And although I truly respect Schumacher for his consistency over the years (reboot aside), I feel his championships were tarred by his occasionally poor behaviour (and the vast car-superiority 2000-2004). Yes I respect Schumacher, but strangely I would have more if he'd won less championships (as I'm sure he would've if the Ferrari wasn't so strong), and obviously behaved more appropriately at times.

[SgtPepper]

I apologise for being accidentally contentious in my first post here, I think I might need to learn a few more of the social conventions here and generally go back to keeping my mouth shut.

Also can't seem to get my Coulthard-as-Superman avatar working. Has anyone else had this problem?

[good_Ralf]

I think the Canadians are against German champions overall given what Schumi did to Villeneuve in Jerez '97. From the moment he turned into the Williams, people in Canada felt betrayed in some way and might think Vettel is linked to Schumacher.

Betrayed? Their guy won the championship half an hour later, if thats true then its a crap excuse, as is involving a compatriot.

Sorry, couldn't find the right words in the heat of the moment.

[mario]

Well, this is turning into quite a philosophical debate over the action of the crowd in Canada (and, for the record, I would agree that, whilst the crowd might have some grievances against Vettel, booing him is on the harsh side - I think that a similar point could have been made if the crowd had simply remained utterly silent, if they wished to show complete indifference).

As to the question of why some might dislike him, as I've said before I feel that part of it would be down to the fact that he is rather aggressively marketed as the public face of the team, and as his team have acted towards the fans and sections of the press in a rather callous manner at times, that has inevitably reflected back on Vettel.
Equally, I think that the way in which he handled the argument over the Mayalsian GP could have been better - as I said at the time, the way in which he tried to play to all sides in the argument ended up alienating them instead, as it was all too clear that was what he was trying to do. The fact that he tried to switch from "Mr nice guy" to "the tough guy" depending on who he was talking to just made him look like a hypocrite. Drivers like Senna, Prost or Schumacher might have been uncompromising, but you knew right from the start that they would not compromise - Vettel, by contrast, is perhaps perceived as being as calculating as those drivers but still trying to paint himself as a light hearted, happy-go-lucky driver, and the two images just do not match up.

However, that is beginning to take us into a very different debate that could be taken into another thread, so back onto the Canadian GP itself. I think that a few others were wondering how Gutierrez ended up in that barrier in the first place - it appears that Sauber were trying to make a one stop strategy work, but Gutierrez's tyres were losing performance and he made a late stop in a desperate attempt to salvage something. Unfortunately, he then promptly locked up the moment he went into Turn 1 and slid straight into the barriers, which was how he ended up in that particular spot. http://www.f1technical.net/news/18488

[Wallio]

To change the subject from the usual Vettel bashing, NBC showed video of Alonso clearly lapping a Sauber under yellows.......and nothing? Is this being talked about anywhere else? A few of us Yanks mentioned it to James Allen, and he claims it was the first he heard of it. While it did not help him at all, I'm petty, and after the disgusting way Ferrari whined about Vettel alledegedly passing under yellows last year, I say turnabout is fair play lol.


Not really, just curious if anyone else say it.

[CoopsII]

Also can't seem to get my Coulthard-as-Superman avatar working. Has anyone else had this problem?

We've blocked it because of all the aggro you've caused. You'll be hearing from Vettels solicitor in the morning

[Svenko Wankerov]

To change the subject from the usual Vettel bashing, NBC showed video of Alonso clearly lapping a Sauber under yellows.......and nothing? Is this being talked about anywhere else? A few of us Yanks mentioned it to James Allen, and he claims it was the first he heard of it. While it did not help him at all, I'm petty, and after the disgusting way Ferrari whined about Vettel alledegedly passing under yellows last year, I say turnabout is fair play lol.


Not really, just curious if anyone else say it.

There was clearly a blue flag being waved at Gutierrez by a marshal at the same time.

[Wallio]

To change the subject from the usual Vettel bashing, NBC showed video of Alonso clearly lapping a Sauber under yellows.......and nothing? Is this being talked about anywhere else? A few of us Yanks mentioned it to James Allen, and he claims it was the first he heard of it. While it did not help him at all, I'm petty, and after the disgusting way Ferrari whined about Vettel alledegedly passing under yellows last year, I say turnabout is fair play lol.


Not really, just curious if anyone else say it.

There was clearly a blue flag being waved at Gutierrez by a marshal at the same time.

Ah, Learned something new today. I was always under the impression that a yellow flag overrode all others. Anyway while it was a boring race by Canada standards it wasn't that bad overall. Dare I say we are getting spoiled by DRS and these Pirellis?

[Svenko Wankerov]

To change the subject from the usual Vettel bashing, NBC showed video of Alonso clearly lapping a Sauber under yellows.......and nothing? Is this being talked about anywhere else? A few of us Yanks mentioned it to James Allen, and he claims it was the first he heard of it. While it did not help him at all, I'm petty, and after the disgusting way Ferrari whined about Vettel alledegedly passing under yellows last year, I say turnabout is fair play lol.


Not really, just curious if anyone else say it.

There was clearly a blue flag being waved at Gutierrez by a marshal at the same time.

Ah, Learned something new today. I was always under the impression that a yellow flag overrode all others. Anyway while it was a boring race by Canada standards it wasn't that bad overall. Dare I say we are getting spoiled by DRS and these Pirellis?

I believe the "yellow flag/light" was actually a "yellow/debris flag/light" but even so the marshal's flag should override the light system.

[lgaquino]

Don't want to drag on the off-topic [but rather interesting] discussion, but I just want to add a little something..

1) Again, a subjective position. The man's shown the pace and the consistency to win three consecutive championships. I've never been a Vettel fan, but writing off all three of those championships simply because he's won them in the best car is effectively writing off the vast majority of championships won since the inception of Formula One, including those of the likes of Fangio's, Clark's and Senna's. A factor in assessing the greatness of a driver lies in their ability to place themselves in the right machinery, at the right team, at the right time. Vettel has done just that.

Yes and also, in my opinion, their ability to get the job done, everytime, especially when "it's easy".
I found the 2011 campaign to be absolutely incredible! Yes RBR had the best car in Qualy, but most of races in the first half of the season were really hard fought. And in that, Vettel was really great.
I think a truly great driver is able to:
a) snatch an occasional win with a slower car, like Alonso has been doing for some years, and Vettel might not have done as often (..but it's not like it's his fault his car is usually better)
b) absolutely trash the field with a dominant car. Like vettel has done often, and yesterday in fact.

Not getting complacent, not taking anything for granted and still doing every little thing that's necessary to win when you know "you don't need to make that much of an effort" [exaggerating for effect] It's much much easier said than done.
That was something that still amazes me, and something I keep reminding myself of, when the equivalent situation arises.

[tommykl]

For me, there are two main criteria to be considered a truly great driver (in my mind at least): 1) the ability to perform well in sub-par machinery and 2) the comparison with team mates.

This is why I haven't really decided whether or not Vettel should be considered an all-time great, since he never really had the opportunity to prove himself in either case.

2007: a point on début for BMW, so he pretty much got the job done. Then, at Toro Rosso, he was, understandably, outpaced by Liuzzi at first (to be expected, since it was his rookie year). First talking point, China. Yes, he finished fourth, which was much higher than that car deserved to be, but let's not forget that Liuzzi was sixth in the same race, and we all know just how good he was. Before that, there was Japan, but he couldn't capitalize.

2008: a very good season indeed, but again, some perspective is needed. The Toro Rosso wasn't a bad car by any means, and was definitely capable of regular points by itself. As for the teammate question: Bourdais may have been excellent in ChampCar, but F1 was a completely different monster, and it's safe to say that he wasn't as good as he could have been. Also, he was usually able to match the other Seb's pace for most races, and occasionally outpace him (case in point: Belgium, Japan), and missed out on good results of his own through bad luck (Australia, Belgium, Italy, Japan). As for Vettel's win, let's remember that, wet setup or not, the Toro Rosso was pretty much one of the three best cars that weekend, as shown by Bourdais qualifying in fourth.

From then on, the question of machinery does not need to be asked anymore. As for team mates, as much as I like Mark, he's not as good as Seb when it matters, and can't consistently mount a challenge for the championship (a Riccardo Patrese of the 21st century).

As for the "Successful racing drivers, almost without exception, are extremely egotistical. They need to be; after all, they must be unequivocally assured of their ability, their rightful place in history, and their complete superiority in relation to every other driver on the grid in order to be able to ruthlessly push for a championship." argument (courtesy of kevinbotz), I don't think that's necessarily true. For most drivers, it's a case of success getting to their head. I think I'll just let the great man himself explain it:

You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are.

[Alextrax52]

Mclaren could have their first season since 1980 without a podium place. Says a lot really. Yes they improved in 2009 but i just don't see something like that happening again.

[lgaquino]

Mclaren could have their first season since 1980 without a podium place. Says a lot really. Yes they improved in 2009 but i just don't see something like that happening again.

There's still Spa, with its crazy weather, to give hope for an awesome performance from JB

[mario]

Mclaren could have their first season since 1980 without a podium place. Says a lot really. Yes they improved in 2009 but i just don't see something like that happening again.

In some ways this season is even worse than 1980 - their best finish so far this season is 5th place, whereas in 1980 they still managed two 4th places.

The other worrying thing is that, under the modern points system, McLaren would have scored 36 points after seven rounds in 1980 compared to the 37 points that they have now. For the whole of 1980, if I have calculated it correctly, they would have scored 80 points under the modern points system - OK, McLaren should beat that total this year by virtue of having more races in which to score points (19 as opposed to 14), but I can't see them beating that total by much if they cannot improve significantly over the course of this season.

Mclaren could have their first season since 1980 without a podium place. Says a lot really. Yes they improved in 2009 but i just don't see something like that happening again.

There's still Spa, with its crazy weather, to give hope for an awesome performance from JB

It'd have to be a hell of a performance from Button given that he had this to say about the mixed conditions in Canada:

Asked if he would have preferred rain, Jenson said: “I don’t really know what we hoped for this weekend! It rained yesterday and we didn’t really take much out of that either. We’ve just got to get our act together and improve.”

I do agree that Button might hope to gain from being able to judge the weather conditions well - we've seen him use strategic thinking to beat opponents in the past - but, at the moment, the car still looks like it just doesn't have the inherent performance to do that.

[Ataxia]

I was talking about respect to other drivers earlier in another thread. I don't quite think Webber quite understands what that is...

He mentions that he's "been there in a Minardi". Yes, Mark, you have...but it doesn't make you the god of all things bright and shiny. YOU'VE made many mistakes too...in fact, why not have a word with JEV about China this year?

Perhaps, Mark, you should start having at look at your own driving rather than criticising others...because you're not exactly on a rich vein of form yourself.

[LionZoo]

Am I the only one that feels Eddie Jordan is getting more and more orange in skin color everytime I see him?

[go_Rubens]

Rest in peace, marshall. What a tragic day...

Quite frankly, the crowd booing at Vettel (even though I don't like him) is just plain stupid, especially for the excuse they made up for it, which is Villeneuve/Schumacher at Jerez? I could nominate the fans for being plain idiots for ROTR, but other antics happened today.

Am I the only one that feels Eddie Jordan is getting more and more orange in skin color everytime I see him?

No, you're not, LionZoo.

I was talking about respect to other drivers earlier in another thread. I don't quite think Webber quite understands what that is...

He mentions that he's "been there in a Minardi". Yes, Mark, you have...but it doesn't make you the god of all things bright and shiny. YOU'VE made many mistakes too...in fact, why not have a word with JEV about China this year?

Perhaps, Mark, you should start having at look at your own driving rather than criticising others...because you're not exactly on a rich vein of form yourself.

Ataxia, I agree with this, simply because Webber isn't a rich vein of form, especially compared to Seb. If Webber keeps this up, I see young blood arriving at Red Bull next year. But I also find van der Garde's comments hypocritical because he claims he doesn't hit anyone

If only that was true, Giedo! The truth is, you did hit someone. You hit Webber and pissed him off, even if Webber is over-exaggerating, and you totally ruined Hülkenberg's day, not that it could have gotten any better...

The fact of the matter is that van der Garde shut the door and miscalculated where Webber was, and he paid for it with a penalty that I feel is just right for that incident and the grid penalty for the Hülkenberg crash is ridiculous considering that he is probably the slowest driver this year. But well deserved.

Overall, Giedo's penalties are well deserved in my point of view and he shouldn't be in F1 for much longer. Get Rossi in the car as soon as possible!

[Salamander]

Overall, Giedo's penalties are well deserved in my point of view and he shouldn't be in F1 for much longer. Get Rossi in the car as soon as possible!

No. At least VDG occasionally surprises you with performances like Monaco. Rossi will be all meh all the time.

[DalekSam]

The penalty for VDG was extremely harsh in my opinion. Actually, whilst watching the race I was screaming for a penalty on Webber - because that was no mistake of Giedo.

The blue flag is not a right of way. It is to signal slower drivers to let the leader cars as soon as possible. Giedo was in front, clearly, despite being a lap down; Webber attacked the corner and hit his rear right tire. I believe it isn't the responsibility of the driver in front to avoid a collision. What could he do? He was navigating a corner. Mark was behind him and it was his responsibility to not hit Giedo. The long straight after the hairpin would have easily sufficed as a passing spot and this is just a case of meh stwearding and Mark's impatience in my view.

[andrew2209]

I saw VdG and Webber's collision as Giedo turning in on Webber at the exit of the corner, which would definitely be a penalty IMO.

[Salamander]

Giedo was in front, clearly, despite being a lap down; Webber attacked the corner and hit his rear right tire.

That's... not what happened. At all. Webber got alongside, cleanly, then on exit, VDG turned in on Webber and hit his front wing. I really don't see how anyone can interpret this any other way.

[Alextrax52]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

[Klon]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it

Well, if Red Bull would stop complaining now they'd look like idiots, indirectly admitting that they don't give a toss about safety and only success. By still moaning about it, even after dominating a race, their line gets more legitimate.

[Alextrax52]

Remember Mclaren's rocket red victory shirts? No neither do i . They've been so poor i think they shouldn't bother bringing them anymore

[mario]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it

Well, if Red Bull would stop complaining now they'd look like idiots, indirectly admitting that they don't give a toss about safety and only success. By still moaning about it, even after dominating a race, their line gets more legitimate.

You're right that, in some ways, Red Bull have slightly backed themselves into a corner in that instance - it seems a bit odd for Vettel to complain about safety concerns when he was, quite literally, bouncing off the walls at times. There was also a little section in the press room after the race where the microphones picked up a chat between him and one of the engineers, and Vettel admitted that he had been trying to set the fastest lap of the race on the final lap but couldn't do it because of traffic - if he had any safety concerns, it wasn't stopping him from going flat out.

Against that, I can see why Red Bull would argue that there is a question over the safety of the tyres. Whilst it may be safer in some ways for the driver if the tyre delaminates rather than ruptures entirely, at the same time seeing large chunks of rubber being thrown at high speed around the track is a little worrying (I recall Hamilton mentioning that, during a practise session for the Chinese GP, there were fragments of rubber coming off one of the Ferrari's that struck him on the hands and caused quite a bit of pain).
The Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is a little unusual given the lack of corners that put high sustained loads into the tyres, so Silverstone is going to be the acid test in some ways. Speaking of which, Pirelli have had to postpone their planned tyre changes again - the lack of testing in Canada due to the wet weather means that some teams have refused to allow a tyre specification change, although Pirelli's plans to alter the bonding agent may be used instead (changing the bonding agent would not count as a change in specification and wouldn't need the approval of the teams).

[CoopsII]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome. I thankyou, Im here til Friday.

[takagi_for_the_win]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome. I thankyou, Im here til Friday.

Well that goes against the grain...

Yes, that was woeful I know

[GwilymJJames]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

Worth remembering that as a director of the GPDA, Vettel could easily be representing the views of a large section of the grid. That is his job, after all.

[DOSBoot]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome. I thankyou, Im here til Friday.

Well that goes against the grain...

Yes, that was woeful I know

I think we're treading this a little to far.

[Paul Hayes]

Only just heard the news of the marshal's death after the race.

I'm not quite sure what it says about the sport that marshals die more often now than the drivers. Thankfully, still a very rare occurrence, of course.

[DOSBoot]

it seems a bit odd for Vettel to complain about safety concerns when he was, quite literally, bouncing off the walls at times. There was also a little section in the press room after the race where the microphones picked up a chat between him and one of the engineers, and Vettel admitted that he had been trying to set the fastest lap of the race on the final lap but couldn't do it because of traffic - if he had any safety concerns, it wasn't stopping him from going flat out.

He really seems to be quite a record Nazi. All he appears to be concerned about is breaking every F1 record in the book so that he can let the statistics say for itself that he's the best. (Which in my mind, doesn't mean s***.) It's not how many records you make, it's how you make them.

[andrew2209]

Only just heard the news of the marshal's death after the race.

I'm not quite sure what it says about the sport that marshals die more often now than the drivers. Thankfully, still a very rare occurrence, of course.

As harsh as it sounds, if the circumstances around the marshall's death are true, then I don't think his death was related to F1 being a dangerous sport.

[CoopsII]

This is getting ridiculous the more you hear about it
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108031

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome. I thankyou, Im here til Friday.

Well that goes against the grain...
Yes, that was woeful I know

I dont get it.

[mario]

it seems a bit odd for Vettel to complain about safety concerns when he was, quite literally, bouncing off the walls at times. There was also a little section in the press room after the race where the microphones picked up a chat between him and one of the engineers, and Vettel admitted that he had been trying to set the fastest lap of the race on the final lap but couldn't do it because of traffic - if he had any safety concerns, it wasn't stopping him from going flat out.

He really seems to be quite a record Nazi. All he appears to be concerned about is breaking every F1 record in the book so that he can let the statistics say for itself that he's the best. (Which in my mind, doesn't mean s***.) It's not how many records you make, it's how you make them.

There are those who have the desire to impose themselves on the sport in that manner - didn't Senna once say, when asked what motivated him after his third title, reply with the answer "Bigger numbers"? There are those who like those sorts of trophies, and those that don't - Kimi is about to break the record for most consecutive finishes in the points but, when asked about that, said that he only cared about the fact that consistent point scoring kept him in the title hunt.

Only just heard the news of the marshal's death after the race.

I'm not quite sure what it says about the sport that marshals die more often now than the drivers. Thankfully, still a very rare occurrence, of course.

As harsh as it sounds, if the circumstances around the marshall's death are true, then I don't think his death was related to F1 being a dangerous sport.

At least, thankfully, the marshals are generally fairly well protected these days with improved debris fences and the fact that the same methods used to bring quick medical intervention for the drivers is also at work for the marshals. Sadly, despite the commendable rapidity with which medical workers reached the scene of this accident (a few reports indicate that medics were on the scene within 20 seconds), they were unable to save him, but they have benefited marshals elsewhere and reduced the risk to them too.
As for the chain of events in this case, I would have to agree that the accident is more likely to have been caused by a breakdown in procedures or the use of inappropriate equipment (I do have to question whether it was wise to use that particular crane to get the car back to the pits given the need for marshals to stabilise the car whilst it was in the air, therefore putting them in much closer proximity to, and greater risk from, heavy moving equipment). The fact that it was in F1 is almost tangential in some ways - perhaps there was pressure on the marshals to move the car more quickly that lead to them taking a riskier option, but that could have happened in quite a few industries under similar circumstances (e.g. the construction industry).

[takagi_for_the_win]

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome. I thankyou, Im here til Friday.

Well that goes against the grain...
Yes, that was woeful I know

I dont get it.

Tyres grain... I never said it was good!

[Alextrax52]

Canada's episode of Losminidrivers is out now

http://www.losminidrivers.com/2013/06/m ... -prix.html

[Jocke1]

Im starting to find it, if you'll pardon the expression, a little bit tiresome.

Well that goes against the grain...

I think we're treading this a little too far.

You lot don't need to rub(ber) it in.

[Jocke1]

Only just heard the news of the marshal's death after the race.

I'm not quite sure what it says about the sport that marshals die more often now than the drivers. Thankfully, still a very rare occurrence, of course.

Don't know if this has been posted earlier in the thread:
http://youtu.be/uAh3ks8QXMk

It's an animation of how the accident occured.

And why hasn't F1 released the name yet of the Canadian track marshal who needlessly passed away?
Is the family wishing anonymity? If that is the case it should indeed be respected.

But I still think about Paolo Ghislimberti and Graham Beveridge from time to time, and their sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten, neither should this Canadian bloke.

[dr-baker]

And why hasn't F1 released the name yet of the Canadian track marshal who needlessly passed away?
Is the family wishing anonymity? If that is the case it should indeed be respected.

But I still think about Paolo Ghislimberti and Graham Beveridge from time to time, and their sacrifice shouldn't be forgotten, neither should this Canadian bloke.

In this week's print edition of Autosport, they state that local media named him as 38-year-old Mark Robinson.