Your Reject of the Race - Britain

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 30 Jun 2013, 13:51

Race over decision time

'2nd' Mclaren. They were beaten by both Williams. Bad bad bad

But the winner by a huge margin- A Vettel victory for Pirelli. I would be very surprised if there in the sport next year

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:01

Rather than blame Pirelli who knew there was a problem and wanted to change the tyre construction, how about putting some of the blame on to the teams who wouldn't allow Pirelli to change the tyres?

But I can't think of any other candidates for RotR apart from Grosjean who had yet another shocker of a mess.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:02

Pirelli. Srsly. Funny thing is,they had their two hardest compounds at the race,yet tyres were being popped like balloons.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:03

James1978 wrote:Rather than blame Pirelli who knew there was a problem and wanted to change the tyre construction, how about putting some of the blame on to the teams who wouldn't allow Pirelli to change the tyres?

But I can't think of any other candidates for RotR apart from Grosjean who had yet another shocker of a mess.

I can agree with this, but in all seriousness, I can't see how Pirelli won't get this.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:05

Pirelli - No doubt they'll still deny it was the tyres that were the problem.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:05

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:09

Jocke1 wrote:

Pirelli claim they are number one, but aren't. Oh, this isn't Caption This!

You're a legend, Jocke!

Post by **mario** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:09

rachel1990 wrote:Race over decision time

'2nd' Mclaren. They were beaten by both Williams. Bad bad bad

But the winner by a huge margin- A Vettel victory for Pirelli. I would be very surprised if there in the sport next year

At a time when the FIA is still yet to put the tender for the post 2014 tyre contract on the market, having that many high profile failures in quick succession is going to do their reputation a lot of damage. Pirelli do claim to already have an agreement with FOM and the teams - although not the FIA - and have already agreed terms for trackside advertising until 2018, but this is going to strengthen the position of some other interested parties in this.

James1978 wrote:Rather than blame Pirelli who knew there was a problem and wanted to change the tyre construction, how about putting some of the blame on to the teams who wouldn't allow Pirelli to change the tyres?

But I can't think of any other candidates for RotR apart from Grosjean who had yet another shocker of a mess.

That is certainly an aspect that is worth considering - Lotus and Force India are believed to have blocked Pirelli's earlier attempts to rectify some of these issues, and I can imagine that, after this race, there might be some rather ugly political repercussions from those who have been hurt by those tyre failures. That said, theoretically the regulations do allow for changes to the tyres to be made on grounds of safety - the FIA does have the power to force those changes through without requiring the approval of the teams - but so far Pirelli have been unwilling to invoke that clause.

Post by **Ataxia** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:20

Davidson gave an interesting insight into the tyres on the Skypad...it's a very intriguing situation.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:24

Gary Anderson has explained about how the sharp kerb at Turn 4, the site of Hamilton's and Massa's failures, can puncture tyres.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:29

Pirelli, I think that's pretty clear.

Honourable mention to the BBC for blindly attacking Grosjean simply because he was involved in another first corner incident, despite not visibly doing anything wrong.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:30

Pirelli, we're very lucky that the tyre failures were not more dangerous.

Post by **Ataxia** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:32

good_Ralf wrote:Gary Anderson has explained about how the sharp kerb at Turn 4, the site of Hamilton's and Massa's failures, can puncture tyres.

But I don't think it was the kerb that was the problem. Firstly, there were two failures down Hangar, and secondly the onboard camera before Hamilton's failure suggested that the tyre was on its way out before he even got to Turn 4. Maybe it exacerbated the problem, but Hamilton was struggling in turns 1 & 2.

I'll endeavour to wait for Pirelli's side of the story.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:33

1st: Lotus, Toro Rosso and Force India strategists
2nd: Whoever nominates Pirelli as RotR

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:33

Oh, also, another honourable mention for Lotus' strategists for continuing to be very bad at their jobs. Why the hell did they not pit Raikkonen!?

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:39

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Pirelli, I think that's pretty clear.

Honourable mention to the BBC for blindly attacking Grosjean simply because he was involved in another first corner incident, despite not visibly doing anything wrong.

You should stream Sky, at least Brundle et. al. didn't blame Grosjean. Early on during the race they said not Grosjeans fault.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:40

pablo_h wrote:You should stream Sky

No.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:42

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Oh, also, another honourable mention for Lotus' strategists for continuing to be very bad at their jobs. Why the hell did they not pit Raikkonen!?

Yeah, really. According to Shadaza, strategists, in particular Force India's, said that their strategists were chimps. Can't blame him.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:47

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pablo_h wrote:You should stream Sky

No.

Why?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:52

pablo_h wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pablo_h wrote:You should stream Sky

No.

Why?

Because I have the whole race available on the television and I'm not going to let a bunch of idiots pretending to be pundits get in my way.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:57

James1978 wrote:Rather than blame Pirelli who knew there was a problem and wanted to change the tyre construction, how about putting some of the blame on to the teams who wouldn't allow Pirelli to change the tyres?

But I can't think of any other candidates for RotR apart from Grosjean who had yet another shocker of a mess.

That's because Pirelli didn't want the FIA to use the "safety" card and insisted that the tyres were safe. So, in the end Pirelli remains the main culprit.

It looks like Paul Hembery decided to do something so rejectful that we could be certain of who would be ROTR before Enoch came back.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 30 Jun 2013, 14:57

ROTR is Pirelli

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:10

Pirelli wins this one from me, although there are some other serious contenders, in ascending order.
1. Williams - anonymity unlimited.
2. Jenson Button - I know he hates Silverstone, but seriously, what was that??
3. RoGro - drove well for the first half, absolute rubbish in the second.
4. Lotus - helping Raikkonen to sort out his dilemma as to which team he'll be with next year.
5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:12

wsrgo wrote:3. RoGro - drove well for the first half, absolute rubbish in the second.

Pretty sure he had some sort of problem.

wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

I didn't hear any booing.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:12

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Because I have the whole race available on the television and I'm not going to let a bunch of idiots pretending to be pundits get in my way.

I thought you were in Australia, my apologies.
If you watch f1 on TV in Australia:
1. You'll get a bunch of local idiots pretending to be pundits before the race and during the breaks.
2. Get the SKY team anyway (I think?) on channel 1/10, but miss out on FP1,2,3.
3. I've only got one TV and my partner hogs it to watch terrible drama and reality show programming.
4. the podiums, interviews etc cut off and not shown sometimes.

So I just stream from some place on the internet from Friday to Sunday on race weekends.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:13

wsrgo wrote:and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish

Rampant Lewisteria for you.

Post by **Ataxia** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:30

wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

Brilliant, generalising a whole fanbase there. It's alright for the Italian fans to support Ferrari, but god forbid British fans favour the British drivers...

go_Rubens wrote:
wsrgo wrote:and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish

Rampant Lewisteria for you.

What do you expect, the mainly casual fanbase to favour the non-British drivers? I think everyone's trying to read in between the lines here too much.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:36

wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

I didn't hear any booing, only cheering when Vettel retired - and if you think that's xenophobic I dread to think what you thought of the reaction of the Tifosi when Hakkinen retired from Germany and Monza 1999.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 30 Jun 2013, 15:38

Bob wrote:
wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

I didn't hear any booing, only cheering when Vettel retired - and if you think that's xenophobic I dread to think what you thought of the reaction of the Tifosi when Hakkinen retired from Germany and Monza 1999.

Or when Patrese crashed at Imola in 1983.

Post by **mario** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:06

good_Ralf wrote:
Bob wrote:
wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

I didn't hear any booing, only cheering when Vettel retired - and if you think that's xenophobic I dread to think what you thought of the reaction of the Tifosi when Hakkinen retired from Germany and Monza 1999.

Or when Patrese crashed at Imola in 1983.

Whilst I did find it distasteful that the crowd were cheering when Vettel went out, I wouldn't necessarily say that was down to xenophobia - the main beneficiary of that was a German driver, Rosberg, driving for a German team (at least in terms of ownership and licence). It is possible that the fact that Webber also gained was another motivating factor, given his popularity with the fans and the fact that some might feel that he got a bit of a raw deal in Malaysia earlier this year.

Ataxia wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Gary Anderson has explained about how the sharp kerb at Turn 4, the site of Hamilton's and Massa's failures, can puncture tyres.

But I don't think it was the kerb that was the problem. Firstly, there were two failures down Hangar, and secondly the onboard camera before Hamilton's failure suggested that the tyre was on its way out before he even got to Turn 4. Maybe it exacerbated the problem, but Hamilton was struggling in turns 1 & 2.

I'll endeavour to wait for Pirelli's side of the story.

Massa's tyre failure also started before he entered that corner too, as it looked like his tyre was beginning to deflate through Turn 3 as well. Added to that, Rosberg was fortunate that the safety car occurred when it did - Mercedes were forced into a late pit stop because Rosberg's left rear tyre was beginning to delaminate (there was a brief shot of the tyre as it was taken off the car, and the rubber on the surface of the tyre was torn and damaged).
There are also a few other drivers who had near misses too - Vettel's left rear was also damaged in the first stint and Alonso has indicated that, although it was not caught on camera, he was also hit by a tyre problem (however, as he was approaching the pit lane and in the window for his first pit stop, he says that it cost him no time on circuit).

Now, I think that we are going to need to have a thorough investigation, but the pattern of failures is certainly quite suspicious. It is true that there are some slight modifications to the circuit this year, with new drains having been installed in a number of places around the track after the problems they had in 2012, and we've occasionally seen loose drain covers cause problems (Montoya in the 2005 Chinese GP, for example, having suspension damage from a loose drain cover, or Perez in 2012 having a chassis written off when a drain cover punched through the front bulkhead). However, I don't think Turn 4 was one of those corners that was modified, so it is still a slight mystery as to what is going on.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:09

solarcold wrote:1st: Lotus, Toro Rosso and Force India strategists
2nd: Whoever nominates Pirelli as RotR

Seriously? You don't think Pirelli were rejectful? But what is rejectful is that Pirelli have a high-degrading tyre that punctures easily and teams are complaining about it. So when Pirelli asks for help testing a tyre, they and the team that helps get hauled up in front of the International Tribunal and are found guilty because of a testing ban. And a few teams are vetoing changes to the tyres... What the heck! The teams are to blame for asking for tyres like this initially, Pirelli are to blame for acquiescence, the FIA are to blame for not allowing them to test, the whole of F1 is to blame for getting into this mess and being unable to sort it out. Just like USA 2005...

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:12

I guess the tyre failures were down to the construction of the F1 tyres, because during the GP2 and GP3 races, no tyre failures occured. So Pirelli is ROTR for me. Also, Gutierrez had another tyre failure, so we had 5, not 4 during the race.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:14

I'm going to be lazy and nominate Pirelli

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:22

solarcold wrote:2nd: Whoever nominates Pirelli as RotR

... how!?!?!?

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:38

Ataxia wrote:
wsrgo wrote:5. THE BOOING BRITISH CROWD: Xenophobia reigns supreme as first Vettel is booed after a gearbox failure, and they then mete out the same treatment to Alonso because he deprived their darling of a 'heroic' podium finish (funny how people forgot Massa's charge, because IMO his charge was in no way worse than Hamilton's).

Brilliant, generalising a whole fanbase there. It's alright for the Italian fans to support Ferrari, but god forbid British fans favour the British drivers...

Hem..hem..you call booing others at their times of crises as favouring the ones you support?

The Dutch Bear · Post by **The Dutch Bear** » 30 Jun 2013, 16:52

Pirelli is my ROTR, without question.
Not USA 2005, but close.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 30 Jun 2013, 17:06

Pirelli, hands down. It put the poor strategy calls by certain teams (e.g. Lotus) into shade.

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 30 Jun 2013, 17:32

4 blows in race? Oh no. Someone would go fatal since long time. Just go back to 2012 spec. Darn you FIA for not allowing that

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 30 Jun 2013, 17:34

AxelP800 wrote:4 blows in race? Oh no. Someone would go fatal since long time. Just go back to 2012 spec. Darn you FIA for not allowing that

In fact, there were 5. Gutierrez had one which wasn't shown on TV. And several others had very damaged tyres when they came into the pits.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 30 Jun 2013, 17:35

A number of people have been making a fundamental mistake in this thread. They have been saying that four tyres failed during the race.In fact there were five, the fifth being Gutierrez's front left, which also damaged his front wing.

Pirelli for reject, although a mention for Lotus team-orders, and how unoriginal they were in issuing them.