Another wiki!

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 27 Jul 2013, 07:04

Matt121 wrote:Thanks even I though ask for someone to help with the Multiple Series race template, cause I am only going to try and create articles when the F2RWRS and F3RWRS are both at the same place. Much like GP2 and GP3. So you will see this template at

Australian Grand Prix
British Grand Prix
Italian Grand Prix
German Grand Prix
North Sea Grand Prix ?
Belgian Grand Prix ?
Japanese Grand Prix

? meaning I have no clue on the spilt weeks even they are at the same venue.

Just gonna let you know that I'll be creating separate pages for F3 races, because it is beyond stupid trying to put two series with completely different formats on the same page. Especially since F2 races are "X Grand Prix" and F3 races are "Round of X".

HawkAussie · Post by **HawkAussie** » 27 Jul 2013, 08:24

So just a normal template for F2RWRS

KL-racer · Post by **KL-racer** » 31 Jul 2013, 19:56

I am finally planning on doing a wiki page for my Alternate SUPER GT series, because so many people have been wanting one for it, but I need an approval, my user name is KL-Racer.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 31 Jul 2013, 21:24

Aerospeed, please approve the account I've just set up

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 01 Aug 2013, 02:30

Phoenix wrote:Aerospeed, please approve the account I've just set up

Good to go now

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 08 Aug 2013, 01:31

OK, so I finally started working on that draft new version I talked about a long time ago. It's still early days yet, but here's the design so far. I'll be building the main content in the coming days.

HawkAussie · Post by **HawkAussie** » 08 Aug 2013, 03:06

Stramala wrote:OK, so I finally started working on that draft new version I talked about a long time ago. It's still early days yet, but here's the design so far. I'll be building the main content in the coming days.

At the moment it is good, but what about also including the non-canon series aswell.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 08 Aug 2013, 19:56

Matt121 wrote:
Stramala wrote:OK, so I finally started working on that draft new version I talked about a long time ago. It's still early days yet, but here's the design so far. I'll be building the main content in the coming days.

At the moment it is good, but what about also including the non-canon series aswell.

Yep, looks clean and sharp. I'd say split the modern and historical canon series into their own categories (you seem to have missed F1WRCR) and add the non-canon ones as well.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 09 Aug 2013, 03:43

Nuppiz wrote:
Matt121 wrote:
Stramala wrote:OK, so I finally started working on that draft new version I talked about a long time ago. It's still early days yet, but here's the design so far. I'll be building the main content in the coming days.

At the moment it is good, but what about also including the non-canon series aswell.

Yep, looks clean and sharp. I'd say split the modern and historical canon series into their own categories (you seem to have missed F1WRCR) and add the non-canon ones as well.

I love the new F1RGP2C logo. Page looks good too.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 09 Aug 2013, 12:39

I missed a lot of things. On purpose. There is only space for 12 series in this format. Which, going by the comments so far, is not enough for most people. So, I'm abandoning this idea, and starting again from scratch with something else.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 09 Aug 2013, 13:48

Stramala wrote:I missed a lot of things. On purpose. There is only space for 12 series in this format. Which, going by the comments so far, is not enough for most people. So, I'm abandoning this idea, and starting again from scratch with something else.

The new design should be based around the fact that it needs to be easy for new series to be added in/old ones taken out without it compromising the layout.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 09 Aug 2013, 14:48

I changed my mind. Instead of trying to come up with a completely brand new design, I'm just going to try and make a much cleaner, reliable version of the one we already have. No more of this floating nonsense that makes the tables appear in random places at times, depending on the resolution of the screen.

Edit: It is done...

HawkAussie · Post by **HawkAussie** » 11 Aug 2013, 07:36

Is anyone having trouble with the wiki?

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 11 Aug 2013, 09:51

Apparently it's gone down... which is great since I planned to prepare Pre-Season 2 F1RWRS carset today

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 11 Aug 2013, 10:40

Stramala wrote:I changed my mind. Instead of trying to come up with a completely brand new design, I'm just going to try and make a much cleaner, reliable version of the one we already have. No more of this floating nonsense that makes the tables appear in random places at times, depending on the resolution of the screen.

Edit: It is done...

Yes I saw that last night when browsing through the recent changes, and I must say it does look mightily impressive. I was looking at the code for it - you have table widths and things like that as "100%" instead of say "400px" for example, is that the way of getting round the floating tables and keeps the format slippy so it adjusts to any screen size? I say this because the main page looses a good chunk on the right hand side from the banner ad which doesn't appear on the prototype page.

Definitely the best solution I've seen so far though!

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 11 Aug 2013, 11:36

Aerond wrote:Apparently it's gone down... which is great since I planned to prepare Pre-Season 2 F1RWRS carset today

And It's back now.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 11 Aug 2013, 12:00

AndreaModa wrote:
Stramala wrote:I changed my mind. Instead of trying to come up with a completely brand new design, I'm just going to try and make a much cleaner, reliable version of the one we already have. No more of this floating nonsense that makes the tables appear in random places at times, depending on the resolution of the screen.

Edit: It is done...

Yes I saw that last night when browsing through the recent changes, and I must say it does look mightily impressive. I was looking at the code for it - you have table widths and things like that as "100%" instead of say "400px" for example, is that the way of getting round the floating tables and keeps the format slippy so it adjusts to any screen size? I say this because the main page looses a good chunk on the right hand side from the banner ad which doesn't appear on the prototype page.

Definitely the best solution I've seen so far though!

I run adblock, so I don't have any banner ad on the right. This is why having percentage widths helps - everything stays in place regardless of screen resolution. It will look similar on both 4:3 screens (yes, believe it or not, these are still in use) and 16:9/16:10. I tested it by running my browser at 1024x768, and it still looks okay. Most of the boxes have some white space left in them at 1280x720 so that if the width is decreased, everything doesn't get squished. However, the list of canon series being directly imported from the old page is just a short-term solution, that'll need to be looked at again and reorganised when F1RGP2C reaches the 2000 season.

Floating tables have been a terrible solution all this time. The homepage might look fine on some other peoples' PCs, but it looks awful on mine. Just look at this;

Not good. But by using HTML tables to contain everything, I can use fluid width. Which was something I was aiming to do the entire time. However I'm just stuck in this mindset of HTML5 where using tables for page structure is not only obsolete, it's considered a cardinal sin. So it took me a while to stop being so stubborn about it and just do the damn table.

According to the poll the feedback has been mostly positive, perhaps it's time to implement the new design?

Post by **Nuppiz** » 11 Aug 2013, 15:15

pi314159 wrote:
Aerond wrote:Apparently it's gone down... which is great since I planned to prepare Pre-Season 2 F1RWRS carset today

And It's back now.

And it's down again.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 11 Aug 2013, 16:13

I see. Yes I originally designed the old page on the old wiki site before ads came in, and naively assuming that it would stay the same regardless of what screen size you had! Clearly this isn't the case, so to have proper slippy tables will make it many times better than the current layout. I say go right ahead and implement it now! Anything is better than the current mess we have!

Post by **Ataxia** » 11 Aug 2013, 23:35

I'm a big fan of the new layout. Great job, Stramala!

I've done a little bit of messing about with stuff on my user-page...who needs writing when you have pictures?

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 12 Aug 2013, 01:31

Ataxia wrote:I'm a big fan of the new layout. Great job, Stramala!

I've done a little bit of messing about with stuff on my user-page...who needs writing when you have pictures?

Where on earth did you get those mugshots?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 12 Aug 2013, 09:20

Aerospeed [JerMcC] wrote:
Ataxia wrote:I'm a big fan of the new layout. Great job, Stramala!

I've done a little bit of messing about with stuff on my user-page...who needs writing when you have pictures?

Where on earth did you get those mugshots?

"Diego Alvarez Torrente" is Gerard Pique
"Nino Barlini" is Julian Draxler
"Jari Lappalainen" is Teemu Pukki
"Marko Jantscher" is Maciej Rybus
"Jiri Komarek" is Andreu Fontàs

I think you get the idea now :lol:

Post by **Ataxia** » 12 Aug 2013, 10:05

Stramala wrote:
Aerospeed [JerMcC] wrote:
Ataxia wrote:I'm a big fan of the new layout. Great job, Stramala!

I've done a little bit of messing about with stuff on my user-page...who needs writing when you have pictures?

Where on earth did you get those mugshots?

"Diego Alvarez Torrente" is Gerard Pique
"Nino Barlini" is Julian Draxler
"Jari Lappalainen" is Teemu Pukki
"Marko Jantscher" is Maciej Rybus
"Jiri Komarek" is Andreu Fontàs

I think you get the idea now

I've been rumbled!

In truth, I just went through a load of footballers (mainly U21) and thought "does he look like he could be a racing driver?". Except De Boer, that's just a picture of Rene Binder from his F3 days.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 12 Aug 2013, 13:20

Looking at some of the feedback on the new wiki, I noticed a few mentions of rolling trabants.

Taken onboard.

However, if you voted for 'Needs some more improvements', an explanation of why would be appreciated...

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 13 Aug 2013, 20:18

Could someone change any 'Edward Kevin's on the Wiki to 'Éadbhard Ó'Caoimhín's please, one of the first results for my name on Google is the Wiki and while there's no real problem with that, I'd rather it not be the case. Ó'Caoimhín is the same name in Irish, I don't use it IRL though so would be better.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 Aug 2013, 21:10

shinji wrote:Could someone change any 'Edward Kevin's on the Wiki to 'Éadbhard Ó'Caoimhín's please, one of the first results for my name on Google is the Wiki and while there's no real problem with that, I'd rather it not be the case. Ó'Caoimhín is the same name in Irish, I don't use it IRL though so would be better.

Does that apply to the rFAF1 driver Edward Kevin? It's be a big ask to ret con that.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 13 Aug 2013, 21:39

pasta_maldonado wrote:Does that apply to the rFAF1 driver Edward Kevin? It's be a big ask to ret con that.

Who else could it apply to?

Also it seems that pi's already changed it.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 13 Aug 2013, 21:44

Dark77 wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:Does that apply to the rFAF1 driver Edward Kevin? It's be a big ask to ret con that.
Who else could it apply to?

Also it seems that pi's already changed it.

Only for the drivers' wiki page and the rFAF1 season overview pages. There are still some rFAF race reports.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 13 Aug 2013, 23:06

Ah that's perfect, just meant the main page really! Thanks very much

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 15 Aug 2013, 13:58

I have appointed myself Driver Page manager for the wiki (because someone's got to sort out this mess, right?) I have a few ideas regarding driver pages that I'd like you to vote on.

Issue 1: What driver infobox should be adopted as standard?

There's about 3 different templates in circulation at the moment, which is not helping the looks of the wiki. Also, it doesnt help that some of them were created on the old wiki, at a time when there was no such thing as canon.

Option 1: The original Infobox Active Driver
Option 2: The newer Infobox Active Driver template, with cpacity for multiple series and more aesthetically pleasing
Option 3: Cynon's newer RWRS driver template. Example of how it looks
Option 4: Stramla's small info box, for those who don't link a bajillion options.
Option 5: None of the above, a new template is in order.

Feel free to suggest options I have missed, I will add them to the vote.

Whatever option receives the most votes will obviously be taken as the standard template. It would be the responsibility of the driver owner to update his driver pages to add the standard template.

Issue 2: Should a column be added to the template saying which member owns which driver?

This an idea me and Stramala have discussed in the chat. It would make driver contracts easier, as people would know who to contact, and would make things clear regarding who owns whom.

Yes! Sounds like a great idea
No! Not my cup of tea

Issue 3: Should a driver page on the wiki be mandatory for any new driver entering the canon?

This would remove the need for people to create pages later on in their driver careers, and would help to remove red links across the wiki. Some people may find wiki code confusing at first, if this is the case feel free to ask for help in this thread. An idea which has been suggested to me by Stramala is to have a simple template for the whole driver page. Copy and paste code that will make it easy, quck and simple for people to create a WHOLE PAGE for their driver, including infobox, results, etc, etc.

Yes! That's a great idea!
No! That doesn't sound good to me

Anyone with a driver or team in any canon series (See the canon thread) can vote in this discussion. You have until the 25th August to vote. Thank you for your co-operation.

Votes

Issue 1:

1: 1
2:
3: 2
4:
5:

Issue 2:

Yes: 1
No: 2

Issue 3:

Yes: 3
No:

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:08

For the first topic, I think we should have some options for everyone to choose - Maybe drivers who have raced inthe F1RWRS can use the original template, and those in the feeder series can use the small template. I don't think adding a column saying who owns a driver would do any good - it would kinda remove some of the realism from the wiki page - but any info on the talkppages would suffice.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:30

Issue 1: Cynon's infobox
Issue 2: yes
Issue 3: yes

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:33

For question a) I would say work with Cynon's. It's the best, really.
For question b) it would be advantageous so I would say yes to that as well
For question c) yes, but with a certain time frame. It's asinine to create a wiki page for a driver before he even has a seat

Furthermore, one thing I was thinking about: on Wookiepedia, non-canon sections are specifically marked. Maybe we should introduce that to our wiki as well as to allow description of a driver's work in non-canon serieses without posing issues with canon.

Post by **Ataxia** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:50

a) I'm not too fussed to be honest, I don't think there needs to be a standard one. For posterity, just stick me down for Option 1.
b) I think it should be on the talk page, so I guess I'm a 'no' here.
c) Yeah. Whether or not the owners do it themselves, it doesn't matter...but as long as new drivers are given a little bit of background it can work. It's also handy for age-restricted series like the RDS to pick up on which drivers can race.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 15 Aug 2013, 14:59

Right, first of all, option 1 and 2 are designed to work together. Option 2 is for drivers who have competed in more than one main series, because it quickly became apparent that say, Daniel Melrose has a long career in both F1 and F1RWRS, so needed an infobox for both. Having two separate infoboxes on one page, especially if the bio is short, will not only look messy, but will be complicated and difficult to manage. None of the other options available offer this level of flexibility. I can guarantee that down the line someone will want to put in the results from two or more series into one infobox.

Secondly, the vast majority of drivers have either option 1 or option 2 on their page. I know this because it was me going round doing the editing. If anyone fancies stepping up to the plate and replacing every single one of these templates with a new one in the space of a couple of hours (because otherwise it will look terrible and never get done) then be my guest. I honestly think we should be saving ourselves as much work as possible so should therefore keep the templates that have been used the most.

Thirdly, options 1 and 2 are the only ones that really reflect standard Wikipedia practice, and as such, I feel they are the best option. Cynon's, with all due respect, looks like something that would belong on the Pacific GP website circa 1995, and Stramala's short one doesn't have enough options.

So my opinion? Keep options 1 and 2, tweak them slightly to include a new field for the driver owner, as I agree that is a good idea, and make sure every driver has a page, even if it's only a line or two of description.

No need to reinvent the wheel. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:09

AndreaModa wrote:Right, first of all, option 1 and 2 are designed to work together. Option 2 is for drivers who have competed in more than one main series, because it quickly became apparent that say, Daniel Melrose has a long career in both F1 and F1RWRS, so needed an infobox for both. Having two separate infoboxes on one page, especially if the bio is short, will not only look messy, but will be complicated and difficult to manage. None of the other options available offer this level of flexibility. I can guarantee that down the line someone will want to put in the results from two or more series into one infobox.

Secondly, the vast majority of drivers have either option 1 or option 2 on their page. I know this because it was me going round doing the editing. If anyone fancies stepping up to the plate and replacing every single one of these templates with a new one in the space of a couple of hours (because otherwise it will look terrible and never get done) then be my guest. I honestly think we should be saving ourselves as much work as possible so should therefore keep the templates that have been used the most.

Thirdly, options 1 and 2 are the only ones that really reflect standard Wikipedia practice, and as such, I feel they are the best option. Cynon's, with all due respect, looks like something that would belong on the Pacific GP website circa 1995, and Stramala's short one doesn't have enough options.

So my opinion? Keep options 1 and 2, tweak them slightly to include a new field for the driver owner, as I agree that is a good idea, and make sure every driver has a page, even if it's only a line or two of description.

No need to reinvent the wheel. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Regarding who would change the driver boxes, I hope that after this is sorted that every driver owner will find some time to go through and add the box to his/her driver page. Even if it isn't done immediately, most people only have abot 5-7 drivers in canon series, so this shouldn't take too long. For those who can't or won't, I'll do it as I started the vote.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:39

On Issue 1:
I'd suggest to use the original large driver infobox for F1RWRS drivers, but Stramala's small infobox for all other drivers. I have 14 drivers in canon series, some of them competing in multiple series, but some forum members have a lot more. It would be quite a lot of work to keep the large infobox up to date for every driver, so I'd prefer having the smaller box for every series except F1RWRS, or maybe also F2RWRS and F3RWRS.

On Issue 2:
I would suggest to add it to the talk page of each driver.

On Issue 3:
Yes, I think that would be helpful.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:56

Issue 1: I don't think there really needs to be a standard one, but I'll go for Cynon's
Issue 2: Yes
Issue 3: Yes

pycku · Post by **pycku** » 15 Aug 2013, 15:57

i'm new here but If i'm given the right to vote, i'd do it like that;

1. option 3.
2. yes, it will make things easier.
3. yes, that also would make things easier and nicer.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 15 Aug 2013, 16:15

I wouldn't change any infoboxes and would keep them as is. Perhaps some drivers who have taken part in more than two canon series could be updated to Cynon's infobox format, but otherwise I don't see any reason to start major changes.

We already have lists for the drivers of some series (although severely outdated). Perhaps we could make a mega-list of all canon drivers, their owners, the series they're currently taking part in and to which team(s) they are contracted to (although as we all know, contracts are meant to be broken

). Also, there's a lot of drivers without a page at all, so it'd be a huge task to add each driver's owner to their pages.

Which leads us to the final question; who would make the pages for all of the drivers? If you look at the wiki's Recent Changes page you'll see that it's usually the same 10 people doing most of the edits, and many of the members haven't been keen to even register, let alone edit something. I doubt adding an easy-to-use template would really increase the amount of people creating driver pages, at least not voluntarily. So in this case I agree that it'd simply be mandatory for everyone to create a page for their driver the as soon as they are signed into a canon series. Sure, it may sound a bit harsh, but it could also make people put a bit more time and effort into their drivers and not dump them as easily as now, instead of creating new lifeless "dummies" every time there's need for new talent.