2014 Silly Season Thread

[go_Rubens]

As for Massa at Williams, I think this is a good move for both parties. Maldonado's relationship with the team has clearly soured and I can see Massa leading the team much in the way that Barrichello did before. I think that the move will show simply that Massa has just been suffering from Fisichellitis (and being screwed over by Ferrari strategies) and he'll find his feet again in a midfield team.

All Barrichello did was help lead them to one of their worst seasons in living memory

I don't exactly see what Rubens did wrong at Williams...

[RonDenisDeletraz]

This is a farce. Magnussen is not ready for a drive straight at McLaren imo. Massive gamble anyway.

If the champion of the best single seater series after Formula 1 is not ready to drive for McLaren, then we may as well just keep going with the status quo lineups and abandon the sport when the current group of drivers dies of old age.

None of us here are qualified to state whether Kevin Magnussen is worthy of a McLaren seat or not. But if you take subjectivity regarding talent out of the equation, if Magnussen is not good enough for the seat, neither is anyone in the world who does not already drive in Formula 1.

Let's take a lowdown of every rookie to join a Top 5 team since the turn of the century, shall we?

KEVIN MAGNUSSEN // McLAREN // 2014 - Only time will tell
NICO HULKENBERG // WILLIAMS // 2010 - Was reigning GP2 champion. Got a pole position, which is more than can be said for veteran team-mate Barrichello. They were a Top 5 team the year before he signed, but certainly not after. He had a slow start, but what do you expect from a rookie? He picked it up and by the end of the year was matching Rubens.
KAMUI KOBAYASHI // TOYOTA // 2009 - Midseason replacement doesn't really make it a fair fight for him against others in this scenario. A last roll of the dice by Toyota. Had a horrible GP2 career, still did enough in his two debut appearances to get another two seasons in the sport.
KAZUKI NAKAJIMA // WILLIAMS // 2008 - Yes, he had 1 race beforehand, but only because Wurz called it quits early. He was very medicore, as had been his junior formulae career.
LEWIS HAMILTON // McLAREN // 2007 - Debut season, 1 point from world championship. Second season, world champion. So, the last time McLaren hired a rookie, it didn't exactly backfire did it...
NICO ROSBERG // WILLIAMS // 2006 - Went into the sport as reigning GP2 champion. The car was an utter dog, he had no chance of proving his talent in it. Still only 3 points off Mark Webber. Has gone on to prove his worth, a match for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes.
FELIPE MASSA // SAUBER // 2002 - Was reigning Euro Formula 3000 (i.e. not even the real deal international series) champion. Wasn't too far off Heidfeld. Already had Ferrari backing.
TAKUMA SATO // JORDAN // 2002 - He may have secured the seat thanks to his association with Honda, and Jordan's contract with Honda, but he went in as reigning British F3, Macau GP and F3 Masters champion. Outpeformed by every team-mate he ever had until moving to Super Aguri.
JENSON BUTTON // WILLIAMS // 2000 - Considered hideously underqualified when chosen ahead of Antonio Pizzonia. Acquitted himself well enough, albeit not a sensation in his first season.

Look at that list, and look at what it's achieved. 2 world championships, 51 race wins, 59 pole positions. Kevin Magnussen has a junior formulae CV to match the best drivers in this list, and one surpassing the also-rans such as Nakajima and Sato.

You are highly unlikely to find an expert willing to say Kevin Magnussen is not cut out for a team that's 5th in the championship. Where do you think he belongs, a Marussia? History clearly shows that, barring a disaster, he will do just fine. Yes, his father was hyped up and didn't live up to expectations, but it doesn't mean Kevin will do the same.

Of that list, only really Button and Hamilton really count as those starting out at a top team. Some of those examples were completely irrelevant and pointless. Besides I do think McLaren's lack of form this year is an exception rather than the rule.

[DemocalypseNow]

This is a farce. Magnussen is not ready for a drive straight at McLaren imo. Massive gamble anyway.

If the champion of the best single seater series after Formula 1 is not ready to drive for McLaren, then we may as well just keep going with the status quo lineups and abandon the sport when the current group of drivers dies of old age.

None of us here are qualified to state whether Kevin Magnussen is worthy of a McLaren seat or not. But if you take subjectivity regarding talent out of the equation, if Magnussen is not good enough for the seat, neither is anyone in the world who does not already drive in Formula 1.

Let's take a lowdown of every rookie to join a Top 5 team since the turn of the century, shall we?

KEVIN MAGNUSSEN // McLAREN // 2014 - Only time will tell
NICO HULKENBERG // WILLIAMS // 2010 - Was reigning GP2 champion. Got a pole position, which is more than can be said for veteran team-mate Barrichello. They were a Top 5 team the year before he signed, but certainly not after. He had a slow start, but what do you expect from a rookie? He picked it up and by the end of the year was matching Rubens.
KAMUI KOBAYASHI // TOYOTA // 2009 - Midseason replacement doesn't really make it a fair fight for him against others in this scenario. A last roll of the dice by Toyota. Had a horrible GP2 career, still did enough in his two debut appearances to get another two seasons in the sport.
KAZUKI NAKAJIMA // WILLIAMS // 2008 - Yes, he had 1 race beforehand, but only because Wurz called it quits early. He was very medicore, as had been his junior formulae career.
LEWIS HAMILTON // McLAREN // 2007 - Debut season, 1 point from world championship. Second season, world champion. So, the last time McLaren hired a rookie, it didn't exactly backfire did it...
NICO ROSBERG // WILLIAMS // 2006 - Went into the sport as reigning GP2 champion. The car was an utter dog, he had no chance of proving his talent in it. Still only 3 points off Mark Webber. Has gone on to prove his worth, a match for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes.
FELIPE MASSA // SAUBER // 2002 - Was reigning Euro Formula 3000 (i.e. not even the real deal international series) champion. Wasn't too far off Heidfeld. Already had Ferrari backing.
TAKUMA SATO // JORDAN // 2002 - He may have secured the seat thanks to his association with Honda, and Jordan's contract with Honda, but he went in as reigning British F3, Macau GP and F3 Masters champion. Outpeformed by every team-mate he ever had until moving to Super Aguri.
JENSON BUTTON // WILLIAMS // 2000 - Considered hideously underqualified when chosen ahead of Antonio Pizzonia. Acquitted himself well enough, albeit not a sensation in his first season.

Look at that list, and look at what it's achieved. 2 world championships, 51 race wins, 59 pole positions. Kevin Magnussen has a junior formulae CV to match the best drivers in this list, and one surpassing the also-rans such as Nakajima and Sato.

You are highly unlikely to find an expert willing to say Kevin Magnussen is not cut out for a team that's 5th in the championship. Where do you think he belongs, a Marussia? History clearly shows that, barring a disaster, he will do just fine. Yes, his father was hyped up and didn't live up to expectations, but it doesn't mean Kevin will do the same.

Of that list, only really Button and Hamilton really count as those starting out at a top team. Some of those examples were completely irrelevant and pointless. Besides I do think McLaren's lack of form this year is an exception rather than the rule.

If you feel they are irrelevant and pointless, then you did not read the post correctly. Again. They were completely relevant to the point being made. It doesn't matter what you believe, because you have no actual reasoning to your opinion whatsoever. If you come back with a hypothesis that actually has some sort of reasoning to it, feel free to call him hideously underqualified, but until such time, stop risking polluting the minds of the easily influenced with such nonsense.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

If the champion of the best single seater series after Formula 1 is not ready to drive for McLaren, then we may as well just keep going with the status quo lineups and abandon the sport when the current group of drivers dies of old age.

None of us here are qualified to state whether Kevin Magnussen is worthy of a McLaren seat or not. But if you take subjectivity regarding talent out of the equation, if Magnussen is not good enough for the seat, neither is anyone in the world who does not already drive in Formula 1.

Let's take a lowdown of every rookie to join a Top 5 team since the turn of the century, shall we?

KEVIN MAGNUSSEN // McLAREN // 2014 - Only time will tell
NICO HULKENBERG // WILLIAMS // 2010 - Was reigning GP2 champion. Got a pole position, which is more than can be said for veteran team-mate Barrichello. They were a Top 5 team the year before he signed, but certainly not after. He had a slow start, but what do you expect from a rookie? He picked it up and by the end of the year was matching Rubens.
KAMUI KOBAYASHI // TOYOTA // 2009 - Midseason replacement doesn't really make it a fair fight for him against others in this scenario. A last roll of the dice by Toyota. Had a horrible GP2 career, still did enough in his two debut appearances to get another two seasons in the sport.
KAZUKI NAKAJIMA // WILLIAMS // 2008 - Yes, he had 1 race beforehand, but only because Wurz called it quits early. He was very medicore, as had been his junior formulae career.
LEWIS HAMILTON // McLAREN // 2007 - Debut season, 1 point from world championship. Second season, world champion. So, the last time McLaren hired a rookie, it didn't exactly backfire did it...
NICO ROSBERG // WILLIAMS // 2006 - Went into the sport as reigning GP2 champion. The car was an utter dog, he had no chance of proving his talent in it. Still only 3 points off Mark Webber. Has gone on to prove his worth, a match for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes.
FELIPE MASSA // SAUBER // 2002 - Was reigning Euro Formula 3000 (i.e. not even the real deal international series) champion. Wasn't too far off Heidfeld. Already had Ferrari backing.
TAKUMA SATO // JORDAN // 2002 - He may have secured the seat thanks to his association with Honda, and Jordan's contract with Honda, but he went in as reigning British F3, Macau GP and F3 Masters champion. Outpeformed by every team-mate he ever had until moving to Super Aguri.
JENSON BUTTON // WILLIAMS // 2000 - Considered hideously underqualified when chosen ahead of Antonio Pizzonia. Acquitted himself well enough, albeit not a sensation in his first season.

Look at that list, and look at what it's achieved. 2 world championships, 51 race wins, 59 pole positions. Kevin Magnussen has a junior formulae CV to match the best drivers in this list, and one surpassing the also-rans such as Nakajima and Sato.

You are highly unlikely to find an expert willing to say Kevin Magnussen is not cut out for a team that's 5th in the championship. Where do you think he belongs, a Marussia? History clearly shows that, barring a disaster, he will do just fine. Yes, his father was hyped up and didn't live up to expectations, but it doesn't mean Kevin will do the same.

Of that list, only really Button and Hamilton really count as those starting out at a top team. Some of those examples were completely irrelevant and pointless. Besides I do think McLaren's lack of form this year is an exception rather than the rule.

If you feel they are irrelevant and pointless, then you did not read the post correctly. Again. They were completely relevant to the point being made. It doesn't matter what you believe, because you have no actual reasoning to your opinion whatsoever. If you come back with a hypothesis that actually has some sort of reasoning to it, feel free to call him hideously underqualified, but until such time, stop risking polluting the minds of the easily influenced with such nonsense.

Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button were the only two examples that are similar. None of the others made their first starts in what could even remotely be considered top class teams.

[Cynon]

... Kevin Magnussen has a junior formulae CV to match the best drivers in this list, and one surpassing the also-rans such as Nakajima and Sato...

Excuse me, but Takuma Sato is not an also-ran. You forget he was the reason behind the existence of SUPER AGURI and on this website, that's a far more valuable contribution to Formula 1 and to humanity than any mere World Championship.



Also, Sato did almost win the Indy 500 in 2012 and is the first Japanese to win an IndyCar race... <_<

[Salamander]

Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button were the only two examples that are similar. None of the others made their first starts in what could even remotely be considered top class teams.

So you missed the part where he counted every team that was in the top 5 of the WCC then, right? How is that not relevant? McLaren are only 5th in the WCC now, and could still slip to 6th. Regardless, saying Kevin Magnussen moving to McLaren is a massive gamble and a farce is an awful knee-jerk reaction, considering Magnussen romped home to the title with 9 consecutive on-the-road podium finishes to close out his year, something we haven't seen in a top-line junior series for a very long time, possibly ever. He was more dominant this year in FR3.5 than Lewis Hamilton was in GP2 in 2006, having finished on the podium over 75% of the time, whereas Hamilton was on the podium 66% of the time. Magnussen was outside the points only once, and worse than 4th only twice - compared to Hamilton who finished worse than 4th five times. And it's not like his competition was bad, he was up against Stoffel Vandoorne, who bossed everyone in the recent GP2 test session, the one Magnussen didn't bother turning up to. He also was up against Antonio Felix da Costa, who was by far and away the general favourite to win the title, including by yours truly, and who wound up over 4 race wins behind, even counting the fact that Magnussen had one of his wins disqualified because he had the wrong paint on his rear wing or something. Meanwhile, Hamilton's biggest title rival was Nelson Piquet Jr., and we all know how he turned out.

So, why don't you tell me why you think none of this matters and why Kevin Magnussen, despite having one of the single best seasons in the step-below-F1 category of all time, a more dominant season than Lewis frickin' Hamilton had in 2006, still doesn't deserve a McLaren seat, even though it's far from guaranteed that they'll be title contenders next year?

[Sublime_FA11C]

"I think Sergio has been a great team member and he's made a spirited contribution. He's produced some really good races, some exciting races and ruffled a few feathers and I think he's done a pretty good job throughout the whole year."

I really don't care for what comes out of Whitless' blowhole and comments like these are the reason why. Maybe someone feels Magnussen will gel with the team quickly and won't struggle the way Perez has. That said, the team either took him as a short term gamble or quickly decided it wasn't gonna happen. If it was the latter it might explain some of Sergio's aggresion earlier in the year.

As for Kvyat. I've never heard of the guy and all i saw recently was a short interview. Very impressed with the way he talks and handles himself. A spotty kid he is not, that guy could be deadly if he has talent because i don't think mind games or politics will affect his career. And Magnussen? Probably too soon in McLaren for his own good, but you never know.

[Shizuka]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

[AustralianStig]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

I wonder if it depends on the second driver? That could be why they've put off the announcement...

[eytl]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

I wonder if it depends on the second driver? That could be why they've put off the announcement...

McLaren ... Mercedes ... Magnussen ... Maldonado?

[dr-baker]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

I wonder if it depends on the second driver? That could be why they've put off the announcement...

McLaren ... Mercedes ... Magnussen ... Mansell!

Sorted!

[Faustus]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

Some company related to Honda.

[Aerospeed]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

Some company related to Honda.

Or even Honda themselves.

[Divina_Galica]

Who the hell is Kyvat?

No idea, but Daniil Kvyat will be racing for Toro Rosso next season

[Divina_Galica]

This is a farce. Magnussen is not ready for a drive straight at McLaren imo. Massive gamble anyway.

If the champion of the best single seater series after Formula 1 is not ready to drive for McLaren, then we may as well just keep going with the status quo lineups and abandon the sport when the current group of drivers dies of old age.

None of us here are qualified to state whether Kevin Magnussen is worthy of a McLaren seat or not. But if you take subjectivity regarding talent out of the equation, if Magnussen is not good enough for the seat, neither is anyone in the world who does not already drive in Formula 1.

Spot on, we can only sit here at a keyboard and pontificate. McLaren have full knowledge of Button, Perez and Magnussen and usually know exactly what they are doing.

Signing Checo at the end of last was a mistake, and he hasn't lived up to the hype arising from a few cotra-strategy Pirelli inspired results las season, and now that they are in a position of knowing they are secure with the partnership with Honda, no longer have to worry as much about looking for income to replace Vodafone. It is suggested that Perez brought £8m to the team, but most of that was being paid back to him as salary, whereas Magnussen can be employed for £0.5m for 2014.

[dr-baker]

Spot on, we can only sit here at a keyboard and pontificate. McLaren have full knowledge of Button, Perez and Magnussen and usually know exactly what they are doing.

But I bet that Keith Wiggins and the Pacific team still don't know what it was that Jean-Denis Deletraz was doing...

[pi314159]

Spot on, we can only sit here at a keyboard and pontificate. McLaren have full knowledge of Button, Perez and Magnussen and usually know exactly what they are doing.

But I bet that Keith Wiggins and the Pacific team still don't know what it was that Jean-Denis Deletraz was doing...

His performances in Formula 3000 were impressive, particularly with the GDBA Lola team with which he scored third places at Le Mans and Zolder in 1988. At the same time he also competed in some sports car races, notably finishing 7th in the World Sports Car event at Brands Hatch - also in 1988.

Between 1992 and 1994 Jean-Denis continued his career in Touring Cars, becoming a works driver for SEAT, but never giving up his ambition of one day racing in Formula One.

That opportunity finally came in 1994 when he negotiated a drive with the Larrousse team in the Adelaide Grand Prix. Despite never having driven at Adelaide before, and with a lack of testing, he qualified a solid 25th and rose to 15th place in the race before being forced to retire after 56 laps with gearbox problems.

No, they certainly didn't know what he was doing.

[andrew2209]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

Some company related to Honda.

Or even Honda themselves.

Honda McLaren-Merecedes? Do we really need another repeat of the BMW Sauber-Ferrari situation?

Also, it's looking like things could get ugly next year

[Aerospeed]

Or even Honda themselves.

Honda McLaren-Merecedes? Do we really need another repeat of the BMW Sauber-Ferrari situation?

I thought this was long-term we were talking about, my bad. Though it's not outside the realms of possibility, and I actually quite liked the BMW Sauber-Ferrari combo - very rejectful!

[takagi_for_the_win]

Have Sauber signed some sort of deal with Ganassi Racing, similar to their deal with Chelsea FC?

[WeirdKerr]

Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Ummmm

I completely forgot Nakajima

oopos me bad

[Belegur]

I really wonder if Massa knows what he's letting himself in for. It's in very poor taste to say this, but Williams have been ending the careers of Brazilian drivers since 1994.

[go_Rubens]

I really wonder if Massa knows what he's letting himself in for. It's in very poor taste to say this, but Williams have been ending the careers of Brazilian drivers since 1994.

You could also say that Brazilian drivers often leave either not performing well or the people in the team didn't treat them well, like Mansell and Piquet.

[Ataxia]

I really wonder if Massa knows what he's letting himself in for. It's in very poor taste to say this, but Williams have been ending the careers of Brazilian drivers since 1994.

You could also say that Brazilian drivers often leave either not performing well or the people in the team didn't treat them well, like Mansell and Piquet.

Since when was Mansell a Brazilian? Or are you referring to his former moustache?

[Londoner]

I really wonder if Massa knows what he's letting himself in for. It's in very poor taste to say this, but Williams have been ending the careers of Brazilian drivers since 1994.

You could also say that Brazilian drivers often leave either not performing well or the people in the team didn't treat them well, like Mansell and Piquet.

Since when was Mansell a Brazilian?

I could make a very crude comment here in response. But this is a family forum, so I shall refrain from doing so, lest I corrupt the Wmetcalfs of this world.

[Ataxia]

You could also say that Brazilian drivers often leave either not performing well or the people in the team didn't treat them well, like Mansell and Piquet.

Since when was Mansell a Brazilian?

I could make a very crude comment here in response. But this is a family forum, so I shall refrain from doing so, lest I corrupt the Wmetcalfs of this world.

It just crossed my mind just then! I tried to ninja-edit, but alas I wasn't quick enough...

[go_Rubens]

Since when was Mansell a Brazilian?

I could make a very crude comment here in response. But this is a family forum, so I shall refrain from doing so, lest I corrupt the Wmetcalfs of this world.

It just crossed my mind just then! I tried to ninja-edit, but alas I wasn't quick enough...

I meant when Piquet left Williams, and how Mansell and himself were not the best of friends. I will admit I was slightly vague. Although I do think there is a hint of sarcasm, so who knows

[roblo97]

I really wonder if Massa knows what he's letting himself in for. It's in very poor taste to say this, but Williams have been ending the careers of Brazilian drivers since 1994.

You could also say that Brazilian drivers often leave either not performing well or the people in the team didn't treat them well, like Mansell and Piquet.

Since when did Mansell have a B.Sc?

Fixed for the sake of Wmetcalf

[watka]

I completely forgot Nakajima

oopos me bad

I think everyone can forgive you for forgetting Nakajima Jr...

[go_Rubens]

I completely forgot Nakajima

oopos me bad

I think everyone can forgive you for forgetting Nakajima Jr...

Who's Nakajima?

I didn't remember him either!

[Dan B]

Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Ummmm

I completely forgot Nakajima

oopos me bad

It's not just you. I think there are many that forgot that Kazuki Nakajima raced in F1, but then again, he might as well have been the Japanese Giorgio Pantano - good amount of money (or in Nakajima's case, an engine deal) and absolutely anonymous.

[go_Rubens]

Kevin Magnussen is going to be the first time I will have seen the first race of both genereations..... I only started watching f1 with Keke Rosberg's last race, and then there is Ayrton and Bruno, but i'm not counting them as it's not a parental lineage.

Ummmm

I completely forgot Nakajima

oopos me bad

It's not just you. I think there are many that forgot that Kazuki Nakajima raced in F1, but then again, he might as well have been the Japanese Giorgio Pantano - good amount of money (or in Nakajima's case, an engine deal) and absolutely anonymous.

There are plenty of other drivers to forget as well. I forget very often that Wurz came back to F1 in 2007, despite me knowing of the Alex Wurz conspiracy.

[UncreativeUsername37]

I tried to remember a forgettable driver, then realised that was impossible....

[Rusujuur]

Hmm, this years musical chairs are really turning out well. By the looks of it, at least two drivers, probably more have to leave by the end of it... We have Perez and Maldonado out of a drive at the moment, but they both seem to be loaded. I'd say the pressure is on Gutierrez Gutierrez and Di Resta, maybe Sutil. All the top teams except Mercedes are shuffling and in the end they might be the only team with the same drivers next year!! Has this happened before? Not in my days as a fan, I think...

[Shizuka]

So... who's going to be the title sponsor of McLaren?

Some company related to Honda.

Mugen?

[James1978]

All the top teams except Mercedes are shuffling and in the end they might be the only team with the same drivers next year!! Has this happened before? Not in my days as a fan, I think...

1996 had only Tyrrell have the same line-up as the year before:

Ferrari and Benetton changed both drivers
Williams replaced Coulthard with Villeneuve
McLaren replaced Blundell with Coulthard
Ligier replaced Brundle/Suzuki with Diniz
Jordan replaced Irvine with Brundle
Sauber replaced Boullion/Wendliger with Herber
Arrows had a double change
Minardi replaced Badoer with Fisichella/Marques/Lavaggi
Forti also has a double change!!

[Benetton]

Absolutely thrilled to see Magnussen get the McLaren seat! Three Scandinavian/North Europe drivers next year! Niceness.

I was absolutely sure that Magnussen was going to McLaren at some point in his career but this came out of the blue; a nice surprise though.

I am a Sergio Perez supporter but if it is true that Magnussen has been thrashing him in the simulator etc than I think McLaren is fully right to take a small gamble on Magnussen.

Where does this leave Button? I think he'll get an extension since they need someone to lead the team with the new regulations but Vandoorne can't be many years from a seat (max. two)?

If I were Force India I would sign Hülkenberg and Pérez. That is a strong line-up that also brings some dollar.

[CoopsII]

If I were Force India I would sign Hülkenberg and Pérez. That is a strong line-up that also brings some dollar.

I agree with that. Perez needs to get his head down in a decent mid-field team until he matures a bit more.

[LellaLombardi]

If I were Force India I would sign Hülkenberg and Pérez. That is a strong line-up that also brings some dollar.

I agree with that. Perez needs to get his head down in a decent mid-field team until he matures a bit more.

I agree too. That should produce an interesting intra-team battle and show who out of the two is more worthy of the top drive.

[good_Ralf]

Hulkenberg is still in contention for the 2014 Lotus seat but he will not be driving in Austin or Interlagos in the coming weeks.