DBTM - 2013

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kowalski
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DBTM - 2013

Post by kowalski »

Here are the raw figures for DBTM 2013 (difference in average quali/finish position behind team mate):

Gutierrez - 4.63 Well, if anything it shows how good the Hulk has performed - Gutierrez has actually looked ok this year
Webber - 3.84 Looked 'ok' against the boy wonder - still has it in him but retiring near the top
Massa - 3.03 Last years 'winner' - time ran out at Ferrari
Vergne - 2.26 One more chance next season? We'll also see if Dan is anything special...
Grosjean - 1.27 Ended strong but was well beaten over the season as a whole
Rosberg - 1.11 Another decent driver but beaten by his new buddy this season
Chilton - 0.92 His reliability saved him a little but was well out-classed this year
Perez - 0.79 Solid drive - unlucky to be shoved aside so soon
Maldonado - 0.58 Close between these 2 but to be beaten by a new boy is not a good sign
Sutil - 0.37 Very close - decent return after a year away. Will either of them survive next season though?
van der Garde - 0.03 Closes pair on the grid - nothing between them (and not much excitement either...) Kinda hope Heikki gets back next year

Well, any thoughts?

Personally I think the award should go to Chilton or (dare i say it here..?) Webber.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by DOSBoot »

Gutierrez definitely. Blown away by "The Hulk" all season.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Alextrax52 »

3 Webber: Seb wins more races in a row than Mark has in his entire career and Mark can only get 5 2nd places and 2 poles compared to Seb's 9 and aside from Malaysia and Japan Seb was always in control of the battle

2 Chilton: Only really beat Bianchi when the Frenchman was compromised and his gaps in the last 3 qualifying sessions went 0.9 0.8 0.6. He usually finished 15 seconds behind in the races too. If he gets another year I would expect him to beat Bianchi on Merit a little more often though

1 Gutierrez: Hulk scores 9 times Guti scores just once. Hulk had no Q1 knockouts Guti had 9!! the most of anyone not in a Caterham or Marussia. Hulk battled Ferrari's Guti battled the Williams and Toro Rosso's
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by watka »

Got to be Gutierrez really. Nowhere near Hulkenberg all season.
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apple2009
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by apple2009 »

I'll go with the general consensus here and say Gutierrez. That said, it's more a matter of Hulkenberg's extraordinary talent than Gutierrez being sub-par.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by FullMetalJack »

Has to be Gutierrez^2
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Backmarker »

Allow me to argue for Pastor Maldonado:

1) Only scored 20% of Williams' points.
2) Is in his third season of Formula One, whereas his team-mate Valtteri Bottas was in his first.
3) Having won a race last season, was thought to have finally 'come good'.
4) Two retirements thanks to driver error.
5) Driver penalty incurred at the Canadian Grand Prix for running into the back of Adrian Sutil.
6) Has spent the entire year moaning about Williams, and being generally disruptive within the team.

My argument against Esteban Gutiérrez receiving the award is as follows:

1) As a rookie he was not expected to beat Nico Hülkenberg.
2) Nico Hülkenberg is a class act, so it's not surprising he destroyed his more modestly talented team-mate.
3) Showed a flash of quality at the Spanish Grand Prix to set the fastest lap in a dog of a Sauber, and produced a solid performance at the Japanese Grand Prix - more achievement than Pastor Maldonado managed all season, albeit in what was probably a better car.
4) At least managed to keep his head down and get on with it.
5) More a victim of the testing ban, than being a particularly bad driver: Valterri Bottas had completed far more laps in a Formula One car than Esteban Gutiérrez when the pair made their debuts - in fact, only Max Chilton had completed less laps before his F1 debut.
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apple2009
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by apple2009 »

Backmarker wrote:Allow me to argue for Pastor Maldonado:

1) Only scored 20% of Williams' points.
2) Is in his third season of Formula One, whereas his team-mate Valtteri Bottas was in his first.
3) Having won a race last season, was thought to have finally 'come good'.
4) Two retirements thanks to driver error.
5) Driver penalty incurred at the Canadian Grand Prix for running into the back of Adrian Sutil.
6) Has spent the entire year moaning about Williams, and being generally disruptive within the team.

My argument against Esteban Gutiérrez receiving the award is as follows:

1) As a rookie he was not expected to beat Nico Hülkenberg.
2) Nico Hülkenberg is a class act, so it's not surprising he destroyed his more modestly talented team-mate.
3) Showed a flash of quality at the Spanish Grand Prix to set the fastest lap in a dog of a Sauber, and produced a solid performance at the Japanese Grand Prix - more achievement than Pastor Maldonado managed all season, albeit in what was probably a better car.
4) At least managed to keep his head down and get on with it.
5) More a victim of the testing ban, than being a particularly bad driver: Valterri Bottas had completed far more laps in a Formula One car than Esteban Gutiérrez when the pair made their debuts - in fact, only Max Chilton had completed less laps before his F1 debut.

That's actually a really good point. Perhaps I have a different understanding of what "Dead Beat Teammate" means? Certainly you could make a case for Maldonado though, I can see that.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Backmarker »

apple2009 wrote:That's actually a really good point. Perhaps I have a different understanding of what "Dead Beat Teammate" means? Certainly you could make a case for Maldonado though, I can see that.


IMO, a team-mate who doesn't pull his weight within the team. Esteban Gutiérrez probably achieved about as much as he could have this season. Pastor Maldonado, on the other hand, could and should have contributed a lot more to the team than he did.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Aerospeed »

Did you calculate the stats yourself or did you get some of the info from somewhere else?
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by dr-baker »

Backmarker wrote:Allow me to argue for Pastor Maldonado:

1) Only scored 20% of Williams' points.

Did you take into account that both Bottas and Maldonado finished in the points once each, and for a while Pastor had actually scored 100% of all Williams's points? And that out of the one points finish each, Bottas was only two places ahead of Pastor...
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Backmarker »

dr-baker wrote:Did you take into account that both Bottas and Maldonado finished in the points once each, and for a while Pastor had actually scored 100% of all Williams's points? And that out of the one points finish each, Bottas was only two places ahead of Pastor...


I would say:

1) All that counts in Formula One is points.
2) To score his single point, Pastor Maldonado relied on Nico Rosberg's engine failing with six laps to go from 9th. Valtteri Bottas scored his points without help from any other driver, and finished 8th (when, in the same car, Pastor Maldonado was only 17th).
3) Taking out each driver's best finish, Pastor Maldonado (in his third season of F1) only finished 0.2 places ahead of Valterri Bottas (a rookie).
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by SeedStriker »

Backmarker wrote:I would say:

1) All that counts in Formula One is points.
2) To score his single point, Pastor Maldonado relied on Nico Rosberg's engine failing with six laps to go from 9th. Valtteri Bottas scored his points without help from any other driver, and finished 8th (when, in the same car, Pastor Maldonado was only 17th).
3) Taking out each driver's best finish, Pastor Maldonado (in his third season of F1) only finished 0.2 places ahead of Valterri Bottas (a rookie).


That's a good point. Pastor should've been Williams lead driver, but with all the whine, Bottas was the one that actually got into the points without external help. And with The Reverend badmouthing the guys from Grove when it was clearly his fault, he kinda deserves the trophy.
On the other hand, Guti and Checo were clearly the #2 of their respective teams and did what Sauber and McLaren respectively asked them.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by dr-baker »

Backmarker wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Did you take into account that both Bottas and Maldonado finished in the points once each, and for a while Pastor had actually scored 100% of all Williams's points? And that out of the one points finish each, Bottas was only two places ahead of Pastor...


I would say:

1) All that counts in Formula One is points.
2) To score his single point, Pastor Maldonado relied on Nico Rosberg's engine failing with six laps to go from 9th. Valtteri Bottas scored his points without help from any other driver, and finished 8th (when, in the same car, Pastor Maldonado was only 17th).
3) Taking out each driver's best finish, Pastor Maldonado (in his third season of F1) only finished 0.2 places ahead of Valterri Bottas (a rookie).

When put like that, it makes sense. It's just that, when a team only has occasional points finishes, the ratio of points between the drivers can be somewhat obscured. Vettel scoring 80% of Red Bull's points would be more damning of Webber than this example. But your argument has been justified.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by andrew2209 »

Luiz Razia-While Max Chilton finished every race this season, he couldn't even start a single race.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Onxy Wrecked »

andrew2209 wrote:Luiz Razia-While Max Chilton finished every race this season, he couldn't even start a single race.

And was replaced with Jules Bianchi who produced reliable performance overshadowing Chilton by a significant margin. I guess deadbeat funding was the end of Razia.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by go_Rubens »

dr-baker wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Did you take into account that both Bottas and Maldonado finished in the points once each, and for a while Pastor had actually scored 100% of all Williams's points? And that out of the one points finish each, Bottas was only two places ahead of Pastor...


I would say:

1) All that counts in Formula One is points.
2) To score his single point, Pastor Maldonado relied on Nico Rosberg's engine failing with six laps to go from 9th. Valtteri Bottas scored his points without help from any other driver, and finished 8th (when, in the same car, Pastor Maldonado was only 17th).
3) Taking out each driver's best finish, Pastor Maldonado (in his third season of F1) only finished 0.2 places ahead of Valterri Bottas (a rookie).

When put like that, it makes sense. It's just that, when a team only has occasional points finishes, the ratio of points between the drivers can be somewhat obscured. Vettel scoring 80% of Red Bull's points would be more damning of Webber than this example. But your argument has been justified.


Also, Bottas made Q3 twice, which was William's best qualifying performances this year.

So this year, Deadbeat Teammate of the Year must go to Pastor Maldonado or Esteban Gutiérrez.
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Re: DBTM - 2013

Post by Eifelland »

Does Gutierrez really deserve the #1 spot?

I'd argue that Hulk was just awesome (I'd put him in the top 3, if not 2nd overall this year), and in comparison, most drivers would look hopeless. If you think that the Sauber was more or less an underfunded crapbox and that Hulkenberg did well to haul it into the points as often as he did (and 4th place in Korea aside, they were pretty low points), then you have to admit that Guttierez hasn't done that awful a job.

Massa, Webber or Chilton (to a lesser extent) are more worthy recipients in my book. All of them were trounced more conclusively by their team mates (well, except Mark, but I can't help feeling that he should have done better given his machinery).
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