2014 Pre-season and In-season Testing Thread

[go_Rubens]

Could this be the Williams livery?

I hope not, it's a poor execution of the Martini stripes if it is.

It may be a poor execution of the Martini stripes, but I don't really care. Martini stripes give Williams the fresh new look that their cars have needed for a while.

Although perfect Martini stripes would make the new Williams livery even better.

[Divina_Galica]

Red Bull finally getting some laps. Vettel went down to a 1:42, then to a 1:40.224 and apparently he had just set two personal best sectors when his car stopped.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg is top of the leaderboard at the moment, his 1:36.880 already better than last year's fastest lap of the race.

Is this live on Sky?

No, Sky just have 15 min evening summaries at 9pm UK time, followed by a 30 minute ask Crofty session - applies to each of the 4 days this week

DG

[good_Ralf]

Oh dear. I know I am talking way too soon but could we see RBR go from winning consecutive 9 races to 9 consecutive races without a single point (or finish)?

[mario]

Red Bull finally getting some laps. Vettel went down to a 1:42, then to a 1:40.224 and apparently he had just set two personal best sectors when his car stopped.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg is top of the leaderboard at the moment, his 1:36.880 already better than last year's fastest lap of the race.

It sounds as if things are still rather difficult at Red Bull - there are a few reports that there was a strong, acrid smell of smoke coming from the back of the car, suggesting that they are still in severe trouble when it comes to cooling.
There are a few suggestions from some quarters that Renault's latest issues stem from problems with the power delivery of the hybrid drive system (with the motor being overloaded by trying to transmit power back to the crankshaft too quickly, causing the electric motor to fail). Perhaps more disconcertingly for the Renault powered teams, not only are they therefore unable to run with full electric power for the test of this test, it has been suggested that they might not be able to redesign the faulty component until after the Australian GP.

[go_Rubens]

Red Bull finally getting some laps. Vettel went down to a 1:42, then to a 1:40.224 and apparently he had just set two personal best sectors when his car stopped.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg is top of the leaderboard at the moment, his 1:36.880 already better than last year's fastest lap of the race.

It sounds as if things are still rather difficult at Red Bull - there are a few reports that there was a strong, acrid smell of smoke coming from the back of the car, suggesting that they are still in severe trouble when it comes to cooling.
There are a few suggestions from some quarters that Renault's latest issues stem from problems with the power delivery of the hybrid drive system (with the motor being overloaded by trying to transmit power back to the crankshaft too quickly, causing the electric motor to fail). Perhaps more disconcertingly for the Renault powered teams, not only are they therefore unable to run with full electric power for the test of this test, it has been suggested that they might not be able to redesign the faulty component until after the Australian GP.

In other words, could we see all Renault teams DNF in Melbourne or maybe even DNQ because of problems?

[Jocke1]

I don't really care. Martini stripes give Williams the fresh new look that their cars have needed for a while.

this

could we see RBR go from winning consecutive 9 races to 9 consecutive races without a single point

If that happens, I will eat two Baluts.

In other words, could we see all Renault teams DNF in Melbourne ?

Let us all hope so. Chilton for points!

[mario]

Red Bull finally getting some laps. Vettel went down to a 1:42, then to a 1:40.224 and apparently he had just set two personal best sectors when his car stopped.

Meanwhile Hulkenberg is top of the leaderboard at the moment, his 1:36.880 already better than last year's fastest lap of the race.

It sounds as if things are still rather difficult at Red Bull - there are a few reports that there was a strong, acrid smell of smoke coming from the back of the car, suggesting that they are still in severe trouble when it comes to cooling.
There are a few suggestions from some quarters that Renault's latest issues stem from problems with the power delivery of the hybrid drive system (with the motor being overloaded by trying to transmit power back to the crankshaft too quickly, causing the electric motor to fail). Perhaps more disconcertingly for the Renault powered teams, not only are they therefore unable to run with full electric power for the test of this test, it has been suggested that they might not be able to redesign the faulty component until after the Australian GP.

In other words, could we see all Renault teams DNF in Melbourne or maybe even DNQ because of problems?

At the moment, it seems that the Renault powered teams can at least set times that would see them make the 107% barrier though. If we assume that the cars are, based on current predictions, about 2.5s a lap slower in Australia, then the front running teams would be doing about 1m30s lap times in qualifying trim. That would put the 107% time at 1m36.3s, and most of the Renault powered teams have shown sufficient pace to set a lap time that'd be within that sort of lap time.

What happens next depends on the veracity of those reports, but seeing multiple Renault powered teams DNF due to issues is possible. The only Renault powered team that seems to have run somewhat reliably would be Caterham (perhaps because they seem to have been extremely conservative when it comes to cooling and packaging), but their lap times are not exactly spectacular. However, given that they have racked up more laps than the other Renault powered teams combined, they'd probably be the best bet right now for a Renault powered team making it to the end of the race.

[go_Rubens]

In other words, could we see all Renault teams DNF in Melbourne or maybe even DNQ because of problems?

At the moment, it seems that the Renault powered teams can at least set times that would see them make the 107% barrier though. If we assume that the cars are, based on current predictions, about 2.5s a lap slower in Australia, then the front running teams would be doing about 1m30s lap times in qualifying trim. That would put the 107% time at 1m36.3s, and most of the Renault powered teams have shown sufficient pace to set a lap time that'd be within that sort of lap time.

What happens next depends on the veracity of those reports, but seeing multiple Renault powered teams DNF due to issues is possible. The only Renault powered team that seems to have run somewhat reliably would be Caterham (perhaps because they seem to have been extremely conservative when it comes to cooling and packaging), but their lap times are not exactly spectacular. However, given that they have racked up more laps than the other Renault powered teams combined, they'd probably be the best bet right now for a Renault powered team making it to the end of the race.

Sure, the Renault cars are well within the 107% rule now. But could the least reliable Renault powered cars (ahem, Toro Rosso) be able to DNQ just because the car can't get out of pit lane? As far as I'm comcerned, Toro Rosso is just the Red Bull junior team. Their budget is supported by Red Bull, but they don't have the really clever tech staff like Red Bull. So, I think Toro Rosso will still have issues with getting the car to run laps at a time, considering their pace in terms of solving those problems right now is just about 0 (using information from today's running as a bit of a hint and making an estimated guess). Not saying the tech guys aren't smart, but they are no Newey though. Nor do they have a large budget to possibly solve the issues quickly. So, what I mean by DNQ is not being able to get out of the pits, or expiring out on track before the car can complete a timed lap.

I think that Renault can get back on top of their issues. But let's look at the 1970s when they first tried turbocharging. As far as I know, the turbocharger is fine on the power unit right now. But when it came to new technology, in this case turbocharging, in the 1970s, it took a long time for Renault to solve their issues. Now we have the electronic ERS. And so far, it still looks that the parts that help the ERS system function are still faulty and in some cases just plain non-functional. Now, granted, today Renault have much more technology and money to help them. But with limited testing, I think there can only be so much done. They are only getting 7 more days of on-track testing before FP1 gets underway in Melbourne. This makes me think that they wil take much longer to fix everything. Not only will there be limited on-track testing, but there can only be so much done off-track. Sure, they can build a new part between now and Melbourne, but they will take a while to build it, and even then they won't get much from running it as there may only be a day of testing left, if it is done in time. Plus, if they can't replace it before Melbourne, it leaves everyone using Renault power in the dark. Which means that if the replacement part or parts prove faulty as well thanks to lack of on-track testing, in that case, I wish any Renault powered team good luck in trying to fix issues as soon as possible, because it does not look like happening anytime soon in my mind.

[good_Ralf]

I think that Renault can get back on top of their issues. But let's look at the 1970s when they first tried turbocharging. As far as I know, the turbocharger is fine on the power unit right now. But when it came to new technology, in this case turbocharging, in the 1970s, it took a long time for Renault to solve their issues.

I was thinking about that era and ultimately Renault never won either title as a turbo manufacturer... Their reliability was so poor at the beginning in 1977-8 although it improved Renault simply couldn't iron out all their bugs, to the point where it technically cost Prost the 1983 title and to a lesser extent a serious challenge in 1981 and 2. Then manufacturers such as Ferrari, Honda and TAG Porsche were building title winning powerplants. Sure times have changed but history can tend to repeat itself and Renault are seriously showing this in winter testing. I think that if problems continue for the rest of the year RBR might consider changing engine.

[go_Rubens]

I think that Renault can get back on top of their issues. But let's look at the 1970s when they first tried turbocharging. As far as I know, the turbocharger is fine on the power unit right now. But when it came to new technology, in this case turbocharging, in the 1970s, it took a long time for Renault to solve their issues.

I was thinking about that era and ultimately Renault never won either title as a turbo manufacturer... Their reliability was so poor at the beginning in 1977-8 although it improved Renault simply couldn't iron out all their bugs, to the point where it technically cost Prost the 1983 title and to a lesser extent a serious challenge in 1981 and 2. Then manufacturers such as Ferrari, Honda and TAG Porsche were building title winning powerplants. Sure times have changed but history can tend to repeat itself and Renault are seriously showing this in winter testing. I think that if problems continue for the rest of the year RBR might consider changing engine.

The lack of testing severely hurts Renault. The FIA have considered changing the homologation date for the engines to help Renault get on top of their issues, as it was originally February 28th, while also allowing Ferrari and Mercedes to continue developing their engines as well. If Renault cannot get on top of their issues as they've promised, it may hurt their reputation to the point no one will want a Renault engine because 1) The engine still has problems 2) Renault didn't go with their word. It would be a huge shame if it came to this, and I think they can prevail from their issues. The big question is when.

[Paul Hayes]

I do like that Williams Martini livery.

Oddly, even though that picture does look quite retro itself, it at least makes them look less like the tribute act-Williamses than they have done in recent years with their faux-Rothmans look.

[Divina_Galica]

Given that the teams with Renault power units are paying for the privilege, it would be interesting to know how much of a refund they will be getting....

[takagi_for_the_win]

Could this be the Williams livery?

I sincerely hope not.

Honestly, how hard can it be for them to paint the car white and then put the blue and red stripes on top? I appreciate that Williams are tight for cash and they want to use all of their blue paint, but surely they could've given Frank's house a fresh lick of the stuff, rather than slap it haphazardly on the car like that? Uuugghh, that livery had so much potential and they done bathplugged it up

[go_Rubens]

Could this be the Williams livery?

I sincerely hope not.

Honestly, how hard can it be for them to paint the car white and then put the blue and red stripes on top? I appreciate that Williams are tight for cash and they want to use all of their blue paint, but surely they could've given Frank's house a fresh lick of the stuff, rather than slap it haphazardly on the car like that? Uuugghh, that livery had so much potential and they done bathplugged it up

It's not the real one as of yet. But I sincerely wish that the blue would just plain go for a few years. That dark blue, now that I think of it, really, really doesn't belong with the Martini stripes.

I now want to see the livery in a specific way, just looking at old Martini sponsored cars. The stripes around the sides of the nose, and then straight to the back of the car would work, not the way they curve down the side in the photo, and stripes on the side of the sidepod. That works. And no dark blue crap.

[Wallio]

It still amazes me that in these weight conscience times, they still actually do paint the cars. Over here everyone just runs wraps. Blew my mind when I found out F1 didn't. Red Bull even clears over the paint! How is that not heavier?

[go_Rubens]

It still amazes me that in these weight conscience times, they still actually do paint the cars. Over here everyone just runs wraps. Blew my mind when I found out F1 didn't. Red Bull even clears over the paint! How is that not heavier?

Even the WEC has taken this path. The Audi R18 is all stickers. Isn't this a good way to get closer to the minimum weight?

[watka]

Shouldn't read too much into the lap times but either Force India are faster than I give them credit for (Hulkenberg's lap with faster than last year's fastest lap in the race) or they are in need of some more sponsorship cash.

[AustralianStig]

Shouldn't read too much into the lap times but either Force India are faster than I give them credit for (Hulkenberg's lap was faster than last year's fastest lap in the race) or they are in need of some more sponsorship cash.

All those that were worried that F1 would be too slow this year have been proven utterly wrong.

[Aerospeed]

Shouldn't read too much into the lap times but either Force India are faster than I give them credit for (Hulkenberg's lap was faster than last year's fastest lap in the race) or they are in need of some more sponsorship cash.

All those that were worried that F1 would be too slow this year have been proven utterly wrong.

That's the fastest race lap, the pole lap was around 1:32. Then again, I'm taking the testing times with a grain of salt.

[Ataxia]

It still amazes me that in these weight conscience times, they still actually do paint the cars. Over here everyone just runs wraps. Blew my mind when I found out F1 didn't. Red Bull even clears over the paint! How is that not heavier?

Even the WEC has taken this path. The Audi R18 is all stickers. Isn't this a good way to get closer to the minimum weight?

Designers would always factor in the mass of paintwork in the design. Things like that aren't an afterthought.

[go_Rubens]

Just came across this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112570

Well, I don't know what to say. One problem after another, it seems. And the overheating issue is still prominent.

[Ferrim]

In other words, could we see all Renault teams DNF in Melbourne or maybe even DNQ because of problems?

At the moment, it seems that the Renault powered teams can at least set times that would see them make the 107% barrier though. If we assume that the cars are, based on current predictions, about 2.5s a lap slower in Australia, then the front running teams would be doing about 1m30s lap times in qualifying trim. That would put the 107% time at 1m36.3s, and most of the Renault powered teams have shown sufficient pace to set a lap time that'd be within that sort of lap time.

What happens next depends on the veracity of those reports, but seeing multiple Renault powered teams DNF due to issues is possible. The only Renault powered team that seems to have run somewhat reliably would be Caterham (perhaps because they seem to have been extremely conservative when it comes to cooling and packaging), but their lap times are not exactly spectacular. However, given that they have racked up more laps than the other Renault powered teams combined, they'd probably be the best bet right now for a Renault powered team making it to the end of the race.

I can foresee several cars pulling into the pits halfway through the race, to avoid bigger damage. Blowing up is extremely costly this year. While in the past teams would keep running in the hope that the engine lasted the distance (and sometimes it did!), nowadays a blown engine is one engine that can't be repaired and will count towards the limit of engines for the season.

I'm happy with any extension of the homologation date, as long as it is the same for all the manufacturers. It would have the bonus effect of reducing the bonus of Honda being able to develop throughout the year, too.

[go_Rubens]

Red Bull have done more laps today than all the other test days combined. I don't know, it looks a little better now. But if their issues are bad issues indeed, and yes, they are, how is the car working? If they detuned the engine, wouldn't be farther away than about 3 seconds slower than the Mercedes at the moment?

[DanielPT]

Red Bull have done more laps today than all the other test days combined. I don't know, it looks a little better now. But if their issues are bad issues indeed, and yes, they are, how is the car working? If they detuned the engine, wouldn't be farther away than about 3 seconds slower than the Mercedes at the moment?

I think those three seconds are already quite a gap. And consistent with the general idea that not only the better engine is the Mercedes as the Renault might be slightly detuned although not as much as it was on Jerez. I think this is because those on the 1:37s aren't doing any glory runs (except maybe Force India) or running significantly lighter than Red Bull.

As for a picture of how things are so far, I have this thought out:
- Mercedes are the best engine, followed by Ferrari and Renault a bit behind up to now.
- Sauber looks slow.
- Williams seems to have improved a bit and will probably be closer to Force India than both Toro Rosso and Sauber, who should lag behind in the pecking order.
- That Caterham looks too conservative.

[LeytonHouse]

I agree, still feels like the Mercedes teams are easily able to pull out top 5 lap times consistently. Ferrari seem to be only team able to mix it up with them.

If the Mercedes powerunit does have a significant advantage over the others, it will be really interesting to see how much of an advantage, are we talking tenths or seconds here? If it's the latter, we could end up seeing Mercedes teams locking out the top 8 in a lot of races!

Still early days of course (I'm getting ahead of myself).

[andrew2209]

So, do McLaren genuinely have a quick car, or are they showboating for sponsors?

[Jocke1]

Thursday test times from Bahrain

1. Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, 1m34.910s, 46 laps
2. Nico Hulkenberg, Force India, 1m36.445s, 59 laps
3. Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, 1m36.516s, 97 laps
4. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, 1m36.965s, 85 laps
5. Valtteri Bottas, Williams, 1m37.328s, 116 laps
6. Kamui Kobayashi, Caterham, 1m39.855s, 66 laps
7. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1m40.340s, 59 laps
8. Jean-Eric Vergne, Toro Rosso, 1m40.609s, 58 laps
9. Esteban Gutierrez, Sauber, 1m40.717s, 55 laps
10. Romain Grosjean, Lotus, 1m41.670s, 18 laps
11. Max Chilton, Marussia, 1m42.511s, 17 laps

[Aerospeed]

So, do McLaren genuinely have a quick car, or are they showboating for sponsors?

I don't blame them, the car looks awfully plain!!

[SDHammer]

Here are two potential interpretations of the Martini livery for the Williams from CdeB Design.



and my favourite of the two

[SDHammer]

Aaahh pooo its chopped the nose off the image upload.

[mario]

So, do McLaren genuinely have a quick car, or are they showboating for sponsors?

Given how McLaren have normally been pretty solid financially, who would have thought that we'd be wondering about that sort of thing barely 12 months later? That said, it does seem to be the case that McLaren are letting Magnussen do quite a few short stints on the soft tyre and, presumably, a lowish fuel load to see how the car handles in something a bit closer to qualifying trim. The fact that it just so happens to create some positive media attention and creates a bit of a buzz around Magnussen at a time when the team are thought to be in discussions with various potential title sponsors is, of course, purely coincidental...

Over on the BBC, it was pointed out that the circumstances are probably flattering McLaren and Force India a bit - for example, yesterday both Alonso and Hamilton set their best times on relatively long stints and on harder compounds, with Alonso setting his best time on medium tyres during an eight lap stint and Hamilton setting his during an eighteen lap stint on hard tyres. Similarly, it would appear that Magnussen set his best times today on soft tyres and over a shortish stint, whilst most of his rivals were focussing on long stints instead (Rosberg, for example, was due to do an entire race simulation, so he would have been relatively heavily fuelled during his runs).

Red Bull have done more laps today than all the other test days combined. I don't know, it looks a little better now. But if their issues are bad issues indeed, and yes, they are, how is the car working? If they detuned the engine, wouldn't be farther away than about 3 seconds slower than the Mercedes at the moment?

As things stand, it is hard to tell given that Vettel's longest stint would appear to be nine laps - it would appear that they have made a few steps in the right direction, but are probably a long way behind in terms of developing set ups for the opening races. Lotus is in an even more extreme situation than that - Grosjean has admitted that Lotus are basically not going to be able to do any real work on developing their set ups until they arrive in Australia itself. Caterham, at least, might be getting some way towards a more refined set up - even if they have had to run at limited power outputs, at least they've clocked up a reasonable amount of mileage.

[dinizintheoven]

I seem to remember the same questions being asked of McLaren's unusually high performance now were also being asked five years ago of the equally short-on-title-sponsors team that arrived at the tests calling itself Brawn GP. And we all know what happened next...

[kevinbotz]

With that said, McLaren's financial situation are not nearly as perilous as their alarmingly bare livery might suggest. AMuS reported that Honda are allegedly injecting an estimated 50 million GBP into McLaren this year, along with a 50% subsidy for the drivers' salaries. With the inclusion of free engines for 2015 as well, the value of Honda's financial package is expected to rise to over 100 million GBP, a sum essentially proportionate to a title sponsorship.

As such, Honda are reportedly lobbying McLaren to eschew a traditional title sponsor altogether, presumably with intentions to step in themselves to fill the sponsorship void.

[Jocke1]

Aaahh pooo its chopped the nose off the image upload.

[Shizuka]

The first one looks like the 2000 Ford Focus WRC, and the second one is similar to the 1999 one.

[Alextrax52]

The first one looks like the 2000 Ford Focus WRC, and the second one is similar to the 1999 one.

The 2000 WRC looking one looks better to m. I absolutely love wearing dark blue

[pi314159]

Kamui Kobayashi has been very critical about the Renault engine, despite the improved reliability. He said the Renault-engined teams are 20-30 km/h down on top speed compared to the Mercedes-engined teams, and that the acceleration out of the slow corners is a problem as well. Sounds like there is still much work for Renault.

[OsellaFA1L]

Am I the only one who thinks the Martini logo reminds me a bit of the Nissan logo? Either way I am looking forward to the livery being revealed.

[go_Rubens]

Am I the only one who thinks the Martini logo reminds me a bit of the Nissan logo? Either way I am looking forward to the livery being revealed.

Same shape, completely different colors. 50-50.

The livery was announced to be revealed in Bahrain, but I don't think so this week. Next week I think so, however. I'm too impatient to see it.

[DanielPT]

Kamui Kobayashi has been very critical about the Renault engine, despite the improved reliability. He said the Renault-engined teams are 20-30 km/h down on top speed compared to the Mercedes-engined teams, and that the acceleration out of the slow corners is a problem as well. Sounds like there is still much work for Renault.

Well, the analysis of the times suggest that Kobayashi may not be on the wrong there. Either the engine is still a bit detuned or it is clearly lacking compared to its rivals. If one looks at the troubles hitting the Renault engine forcing their engineers to problem fixing while other engines staff focus on performance, this statement from Kamui looks indeed consistent even taking into account that the Caterham is probably slower than more established teams.