Biggest Disappointment?

[ibsey]

I feel disappointed we didn't get to see that much of Stefan Bellof in F1. Particularly to see how he would of fared against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Berger, Piquet etc in the late 80's early 90's.

[FloProAct]

I feel disappointed we didn't get to see that much of Stefan Bellof in F1. Particularly to see how he would of fared against Senna, Prost, Mansell, Berger, Piquet etc in the late 80's early 90's.

(cough) About the same as Martin Brundle (end cough)

[eagleash]

The demand for overtaking in F1.

As if races pre-schumacher were ALL races where you were able to overtake.

There was much more of it & closer racing.

[Phoenix]

I'll be the first one here to nominate Derek Warwick. He started his career in a very rejectful way with Toleman (failing to qualify for almost every race between 1981 and 1982) ,then he began to qualify regularly by 1983, and scored points in the last races of the season (thrashing Giacomelli in the process). He was signed by Renault in 1984, but the season was disappointing and, while he was fast, he only finished a handful of races (although scoring podiums). Then he rejected the Williams drive for 1985 and stayed with Renault. The season was a shocker and he could only score some points. Then Renault folded and Warwick was without a drive for 1986 after Senna refused to let him drive at Lotus. He eventually got a seat at Brabham, but only because of the death of De Angelis. Anyway, the car was horrible and he failed to score points in the worst season for Brabham since 1976. Between 1987 and 1989 he drove for Arrows, but it could only score points and the odd podium (well below his true capabilities) with average cars. With Lotus signing him for 1990 it seemed that his career was finally starting to go up, but the 102 with its Lamborghini V12 engine was awful and he only scored 3 points. He wouldn't return to F1 until 1993, with Footwork, but it was another mediocre drive that only reported him 4 points. And that was it. Not a single win for a very talented driver.

[ibsey]

I've just noticed their is a simliar thread to this one, entitled Disappointing Drivers;

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=552&start=30

..some interesting choices there.

In order to avoid these too threads clashing, i'm going to avoid listing disappointing drivers anymore. Instead i'll nominate a couple of disappointing engines;

1. Yamaha - Considering what they are doing in MotoGP at the moment. It seems to me that their F1 envolvement in the 1990's was a half hearted effort? I vague remember them putting together a decent engine in 1994 - perhaps showing what they are capable of. But come 1996 / 1997 it seemed as if they just couldn't be bothered anymore. Appartently after Japan 1996 - Ken Tyrell famously said to Tom Walkinshaw "good luck with the Yahama engines. You are going to need it!"

2. Peguoet - After their dismal debut year in 1994. They seemed to be getting their act together, even being amongst the most powerful engines in 1996 - 1997. I always felt it was a shame, that they decided to leave Jordan for the ill fated Prost team. Who knows what Jordan & Peguoet could have achieved in a longer partnership together?

[Nessafox]

2. Peguoet - After their dismal debut year in 1994. They seemed to be getting their act together, even being amongst the most powerful engines in 1996 - 1997. I always felt it was a shame, that they decided to leave Jordan for the ill fated Prost team. Who knows what Jordan & Peguoet could have achieved in a longer partnership together?

well french patriotism has killed quite a lot of promising teams and drivers in F1...


and don't forget yamaha's brilliant dominance in 1989! they really trashed eurobrun that season!

[Phoenix]

and don't forget yamaha's brilliant dominance in 1989! they really trashed eurobrun that season!

You mean Zakspeed. The team folded after that season, having qualified only twice in the season (both times courtesy of the great Bernd Schneider).

[midgrid]

and don't forget yamaha's brilliant dominance in 1989! they really trashed eurobrun that season!

You mean Zakspeed. The team folded after that season, having qualified only twice in the season (both times courtesy of the great Bernd Schneider).

Apparently, the Yamaha OX88 engine as used by Zakspeed in 1989 holds the unofficial record for fastest engine failure during a race weekend, lasting less than 90 seconds after being fired up in the garage.

[Nessafox]

and don't forget yamaha's brilliant dominance in 1989! they really trashed eurobrun that season!

You mean Zakspeed. The team folded after that season, having qualified only twice in the season (both times courtesy of the great Bernd Schneider).

i mean zakspeed performed better than eurobrun

[dragonsteincole]

Hindsight being the wonderful thing it is, my major disappointments would be the driver moves that never happened for one reason or another. Derek Warwick/jean Alesi driving for Williams, Mika Hakkinen returning with Williams or BAR in the early 2000s, or Damon Hill landing a drive at Ferrari for 1997.

[Phoenix]

and don't forget yamaha's brilliant dominance in 1989! they really trashed eurobrun that season!

You mean Zakspeed. The team folded after that season, having qualified only twice in the season (both times courtesy of the great Bernd Schneider).

i mean zakspeed performed better than eurobrun

Which is not much of a merit, admittedly.

[ibsey]

Hindsight being the wonderful thing it is, my major disappointments would be the driver moves that never happened for one reason or another. Derek Warwick/jean Alesi driving for Williams, Mika Hakkinen returning with Williams or BAR in the early 2000s, or Damon Hill landing a drive at Ferrari for 1997.

A driver move I would have loved to have seen would be Senna in a Ferrari. Appartently Senna wanted to finish his career in a Ferrari. Shame we never got to see that iconic yellow helmet in a scarlet V12 ferrari.

[Nessafox]

i mean zakspeed performed better than eurobrun

Which is not much of a merit, admittedly.

pure and simple dominance!

[Nessafox]

I just got my first computer and I want to protect it the best I can with Anti-viruses, spyware, firewall and anything else that might affect my computer. It's an Acer Laptop with Windows 7, 3GB. What's the best Anti-Virus, Spyware and Firewall protection out there? Please help. Thanks!


__________
daily motivation

we're all probably nerds, but still, wrong forum, mate

[Nuppiz]

At first sight I read that the computer has 7,3GB of RAM...

Time to go to sleep methinks.

[Benetton]

Alexander Wurz no doubt about it! The youngest winner of Le Mans 24 hrs. 3 races in 1997 where he out-qualified Alesi 2-1 and scored a podium in his third race in GBR. Then in the first half of 1998 he scored a fastest lap at ARG and basically finished 4th or 5th every race until Austria that year and out-qualifying Fisichella in the process. But after that he just went really to average category, it was sad to see.

Giancarlo Fisichella would be another good choice. Sterling drives in 1997-2001 but after he moved to Jordan, which was a bad move btw, his skills sort of declined. Okay he won a few races with Renault but was killed by Alonso. But I think that if Briatore would have chosen him for 2002 and onwards he could have been a World Champion in 2005 and 2006 instead of Alonso.

Also others that come into mind are JJ Lehto, Mika Salo, Kimi Räikkönen (could have been atleast a 3-time champion by now) and Magnussen. Also the fact that Swedish driver Björn Wirdheim never got a chance is a crime.

[Nuppiz]

Also others that come into mind are JJ Lehto, Mika Salo

I'm going to take the risk and defend these two guys.

Lehto was severely injured in a testing accident just before he could've had his big break with Benetton in '94. With two broken neck vertebraes, it's no wonder he couldn't be fast in F1 anymore.

Salo, on the other hand, was a victim of Ken Tyrrell's stubborness with contracts. Man, he was offered drives at Williams and Ferrari, but couldn't join those teams because Tyrrell didn't want to give awy their star driver. Then, when he finally got to drive a Ferrari, he was forced to play second fiddle, giving up a certain win, for instance.

[Enforcer]

All I know is he had disagreements with the technical direction of the team. Added to his poor results, it could be the cause of his sacking.

Legend has it that Frentzen offered to pay for changes to the car out of his own pocket. Eddie Jordan, who's a harder-nosed man that a lot of people think, had been a motor racing team manager for 20 years at this stage, 10 of them in F1, and I can't imagine being told "your car is so s*** that I'm prepared to fix it myself just to prove it's not me" even if it was in jest, or Heinz-Harald genuinely just trying to be helpful, went down to well with him.

[Phoenix]

All I know is he had disagreements with the technical direction of the team. Added to his poor results, it could be the cause of his sacking.

Legend has it that Frentzen offered to pay for changes to the car out of his own pocket. Eddie Jordan, who's a harder-nosed man that a lot of people think, had been a motor racing team manager for 20 years at this stage, 10 of them in F1, and I can't imagine being told "your car is so s*** that I'm prepared to fix it myself just to prove it's not me" even if it was in jest, or Heinz-Harald genuinely just trying to be helpful, went down to well with him.

The Jordan EJ11 (which we were trying to buy, by the way ) was not a bad car, but it was not front-runner. Maybe Frentzen thought he could still cut it at the front, was terribly disappointed with the car and was so desperate to improve that he'd even pay for evolutions. I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie Jordan would've been offended, though. Frentzen wasn't having a sterling year after all.

[Enforcer]

All I know is he had disagreements with the technical direction of the team. Added to his poor results, it could be the cause of his sacking.

Legend has it that Frentzen offered to pay for changes to the car out of his own pocket. Eddie Jordan, who's a harder-nosed man that a lot of people think, had been a motor racing team manager for 20 years at this stage, 10 of them in F1, and I can't imagine being told "your car is so s*** that I'm prepared to fix it myself just to prove it's not me" even if it was in jest, or Heinz-Harald genuinely just trying to be helpful, went down to well with him.

The Jordan EJ11 (which we were trying to buy, by the way ) was not a bad car, but it was not front-runner. Maybe Frentzen thought he could still cut it at the front, was terribly disappointed with the car and was so desperate to improve that he'd even pay for evolutions. I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie Jordan would've been offended, though. Frentzen wasn't having a sterling year after all.

Jordan's problem from 99 to their death was the same as their problem in 92 and 93, just on a different level - They just weren't rich enough to maintain their competetiveness relative to the rest of the field, much less improve.

I remember Eddie Jordan a few races into 2000 saying something to the effect of "Well, if you build a fast car, you have to build a fragile car" when people were asking about the fact that they were close(ish) to McLaren and Ferrari in terms of speed, but chucked about 3 or 4 points scoring positions away due to mechanical failure. It's not a choice Ferrari or McLaren had to make. They could have both.

[JeanDenisAlcatraz]

The Singapore night race. It's crap.

As for drivers: I've been watching the sport since 1997, so in that time I'd probably say Bourdais was my biggest. I used to watch Champ Car every now and then and seeing him dominate was pretty unbelievable. Seeing him crash and burn in F1 was slightly more unbelievable. Similarly, Juan Pablo Montoya. I love him as a driver but it just never fell quite right for him.

[Bleu]

Also others that come into mind are JJ Lehto, Mika Salo

Salo, on the other hand, was a victim of Ken Tyrrell's stubborness with contracts. Man, he was offered drives at Williams and Ferrari, but couldn't join those teams because Tyrrell didn't want to give awy their star driver. Then, when he finally got to drive a Ferrari, he was forced to play second fiddle, giving up a certain win, for instance.

Certainly Salo was couldn't get out from Tyrrell. But when he finally had a chance to choose from the offers which he got for 1998 he made probably the worst possible choice.

[Myrvold]

Anyone knows what choices he actually had?

[Bleu]

Jordan an Sauber were real possibilities for him. At least the latter one, as B&H clearly wanted Hill to Jordan which also happened.

[Myrvold]

Well, looking at Hill nearly managed to win in the Arrows, you might think that the car had promise, it was much better than 96, you might say that about Sauber too, but after all, when he didn't get the Jordan, I think I would've made the same descision myself.

[watka]

Alexander Wurz no doubt about it! The youngest winner of Le Mans 24 hrs. 3 races in 1997 where he out-qualified Alesi 2-1 and scored a podium in his third race in GBR. Then in the first half of 1998 he scored a fastest lap at ARG and basically finished 4th or 5th every race until Austria that year and out-qualifying Fisichella in the process. But after that he just went really to average category, it was sad to see.

Giancarlo Fisichella would be another good choice. Sterling drives in 1997-2001 but after he moved to Jordan, which was a bad move btw, his skills sort of declined. Okay he won a few races with Renault but was killed by Alonso. But I think that if Briatore would have chosen him for 2002 and onwards he could have been a World Champion in 2005 and 2006 instead of Alonso.

Also others that come into mind are JJ Lehto, Mika Salo, Kimi Räikkönen (could have been atleast a 3-time champion by now) and Magnussen. Also the fact that Swedish driver Björn Wirdheim never got a chance is a crime.

Wirdheim pretty much destroyed his career with Monaco F3000 incident, which was stupid beyond belief (I'm not even going to bother posting the video).

[Myrvold]

Yeah, and he refused to drive full time for Jordan, he felt that he was too good for the team, and that he deserved a better team, a bit like Kenny Bräck did with Arrows, refused to drive because he wanted to win.

[Yannick]

Biggest disappointment? BMW, a marque which members of my family have driven for decades, trying to sell of Sauber, my favourite team, to a fraudster a/k/a the whole Qadbak debacle.
By the way, all of us are happily driving Toyotas by now.

[Cynon]

Yeah, and he refused to drive full time for Jordan, he felt that he was too good for the team, and that he deserved a better team, a bit like Kenny Bräck did with Arrows, refused to drive because he wanted to win.

Bräck promptly did win once he came Stateside. Then again, the IRL field was not too competitive, but the CART field certainly was, so his move was totally justified, I believe.

Bourdais I don't think got the fairest crack at F1, since he was teamed up with Red Bull's favorite son, but I really miss seeing him in something other then the Le Mans Series. He belongs in the IRL.

F1 Colorschemes from ... 2000 to 2005, barring the Orange Arrows.

Eddie UnderaCheever. ... Says enough really.

Midland. Awesome livery, but they had two pretty crap drivers and a crap car with team management that didn't really give that much of a damn.

The Fact that we never got to see an F1 team go out on a limb and plunk Janet Guthrie in one car, and either Lella Lombardi or Desire Wilson in the other car.

[Pointrox]

Badoer's retirement on European GP '99.
Sutil's elimination by Kimi Raikkonen on Monaco 2008.
Not to mention Verstappen's brilliant drive on Malaysia 2001, where he eventually finished 7th - one place out of the points

Every single time I was like...