2020 Testing Thread

[Wallio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnNdYZ7Oxx0

Mercedes drop a bomb in testing with an "active" but fully driver controlled, adjustable toe in on the front suspension. The Merc's steering wheel telescopes in and out, and as Lewis pulls and pushes, the front toe in visibly changes. While on the surface this is beyond illegal, considering how much work and expense went into it, Mercedes must believe they have a loophole. By the end of F1TV's coverage of testing, they claim the FIA has been aware of the system "for some time" so maybe?

But either way, bloody brilliant.

[Enforcer]

Unless the other teams can copy it relatively quickly, (and something tells me they won't, cos I'd guess, from my admittedly non-technical background, it'd require a redesign of the front suspension at the very least) I bet the FIA will kill it by round three because of the complaints from the rest of the grid.

[Wallio]

Unless the other teams can copy it relatively quickly, (and something tells me they won't, cos I'd guess, from my admittedly non-technical background, it'd require a redesign of the front suspension at the very least) I bet the FIA will kill it by round three because of the complaints from the rest of the grid.

I fear you maybe right, although I wonder if the fact that Mercedes is talking about it pretty openly, and that it has a name (DAS - Dual Axis Steering) means maybe the FIA i cool with it? Probably allow it this year, than ban it in 2021, just like they did with FIRC.

[mario]

Unless the other teams can copy it relatively quickly, (and something tells me they won't, cos I'd guess, from my admittedly non-technical background, it'd require a redesign of the front suspension at the very least) I bet the FIA will kill it by round three because of the complaints from the rest of the grid.

I fear you maybe right, although I wonder if the fact that Mercedes is talking about it pretty openly, and that it has a name (DAS - Dual Axis Steering) means maybe the FIA i cool with it? Probably allow it this year, than ban it in 2021, just like they did with FIRC.

Mercedes have confirmed that they'd already run the idea past the FIA, and the FIA has since stated that the information which Mercedes has submitted to them all indicates that it is legal - albeit that they are "continuing to monitor the situation". https://www.racefans.net/2020/02/20/fia ... -be-legal/

There is an article on the Motorsport network that offers an argument for why the system is legal, and it is because it is operated solely through the steering system. They argue it is legal because the FIA has interpreted changing the toe angle as a form of steering the car. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... l/4689414/

[Fetzie]

Unless the other teams can copy it relatively quickly, (and something tells me they won't, cos I'd guess, from my admittedly non-technical background, it'd require a redesign of the front suspension at the very least) I bet the FIA will kill it by round three because of the complaints from the rest of the grid.

It would also probably need a re-design of the rear suspension to keep the rake of the car at the same angle with the slightly heavier front-end pulling the rear off the road, and it might also need a chassis redesign that could mean a new FIA homologation process and crash tests.

[dr-baker]

The way I understand it, it would be illegal because it would constitute a movable aerodynamic aid, to reduce drag on the straights. But the front wheels are designed to be moveable, so a debatable area. But I imagine the regulations are much more tightly worded than I have just tried describing?

[Fetzie]

The way I understand it, it would be illegal because it would constitute a movable aerodynamic aid, to reduce drag on the straights. But the front wheels are designed to be moveable, so a debatable area. But I imagine the regulations are much more tightly worded than I have just tried describing?

Doesn't that only refer to the bodywork and parts of the car specifically designed to manipulate air-flow (wings, endplates, intake ports, brake ducts and so on)?

From what I've read, the FIA seems to think it is legal because it is only changing the wheel pitch and isn't changing the angle of the suspension, thus it is an additional way of steering the car. And I'm not aware of any FIA rule that says you may only steer with the lateral movement of the tyres across the contact patch.

Also, any aerodynamic drag reduction would pale in comparison with the reduction or increase in rolling friction on the tarmac (and the resulting changes in tyre temperature, especially on tracks like Baku where the tyres basically freeze up on that long straight).

[Enforcer]

Yeah, I'd seen the suggestion that the real purpose of the system is to raise the ride height at the front to partly stall the front aero in the straight.

I rely on acquiring setups from other sim-racers these days, so I may be wrong, but I thought the effect on ride height of adjusting the toe in would be so small that it's basically irrelevant, even for F1. Not even taking into account the changes in rolling resistance potentially offsetting it.

[Fetzie]

I've seen it suggested that the real purpose of the system is to raise the ride height at the front to partly stall the front aero in the straight.

I rely on acquiring setups from other sim-racers these days, so I may be wrong, but I thought the effect on ride height of adjusting the toe in would be so small that it's basically irrelevant, even for F1.

I'm not an aerodynamics expert by any stretch, but I think you're right. What it will have an effect on will be the temperature and tyre-wear of the front tyres, because it changes the size and angle of the contact patch and we know how much trouble the Mercedes has with front-tyre temps especially when chasing another car.

Given that Mercedes has been in contact with the FIA to make sure it is legal by their interpretation of the rules, I would imagine that they shared wind tunnel telemetry data as part of that dialogue that showed the extent of the air-flow change (i.e. how negligible it is).

[IceG]

Legal for 2020, banned for 2021... https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/das- ... a/4690176/

I am torn between rewarding clever innovation and handing the championship to Mercedes (if it is a game changer, like the blown diffuser - which I doubt).

[razta]

Apparently Teams will protest it in Australia from what i've heard.

Also, new name for Racing Point.. TRACING Point.. yes.. I went there..

[Wallio]

Legal for 2020, banned for 2021... https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/das- ... a/4690176/

I am torn between rewarding clever innovation and handing the championship to Mercedes (if it is a game changer, like the blown diffuser - which I doubt).

Lord above do I hate it when they do that. There's no point in investing in one now, as the system will only be legal until December. I really do hate Mercedes as a team, but credit where its due, they came up with a brilliant idea, and now have lost quite a bit of R&D money because the FIA is once again stupid.

[Rob Dylan]

Super interesting read, and crazy news about this.

As a non-technical guy, I'm more interested in how this will affect the grid. Just how fast do you reckon it will be for Mercedes in terms of advantage?

[Wallio]

I think it will help on tracks with longer straights that you still need downforce at (hello Spa and COTA) as you can stall the wing as mentioned. However, I think being able to heat the different parts of the contact patches of the tyre by adjusting the toe, will help a ton in Quali, as you can heat the tyres quicker. I expect Merc to be better in Q3 than last year.

[Klon]

I really do hate Mercedes as a team, but credit where its due, they came up with a brilliant idea, and now have lost quite a bit of R&D money because the FIA is once again stupid.

That R&D money was actually always a "lost cause", because the rule that bans the DAS for 2021 was in the books before anyone knew about the system.

[Wallio]

I really do hate Mercedes as a team, but credit where its due, they came up with a brilliant idea, and now have lost quite a bit of R&D money because the FIA is once again stupid.

That R&D money was actually always a "lost cause", because the rule that bans the DAS for 2021 was in the books before anyone knew about the system.

Oh? Well that asks more questions than it answers doesn't it? Why did the FIA feel the need to put it in the future regs, but allow it in the "current" era? Maybe Mercedes have been discussing this with the FIA for a lot longer than we all thought. And maybe like the mass dampers, and FIRC, other teams started developing it, and scrapped it along the way?

[dr-baker]

According to an Autosport report, Bottas has known about this system for "nearly a year."

[mario]

I think it will help on tracks with longer straights that you still need downforce at (hello Spa and COTA) as you can stall the wing as mentioned. However, I think being able to heat the different parts of the contact patches of the tyre by adjusting the toe, will help a ton in Quali, as you can heat the tyres quicker. I expect Merc to be better in Q3 than last year.

The suggestion is that this seems to be more about front tyre wear management, as reducing the toe will result in more even heating and wear - given the sensitivity of the tyres to thermal degradation, being able to manage those issues more efficiently would probably be more of a benefit in race trim than over a single lap (it's not to say it wouldn't have any impact, but it's probably going to be more noticeable in a race stint).

I really do hate Mercedes as a team, but credit where its due, they came up with a brilliant idea, and now have lost quite a bit of R&D money because the FIA is once again stupid.

That R&D money was actually always a "lost cause", because the rule that bans the DAS for 2021 was in the books before anyone knew about the system.

Oh? Well that asks more questions than it answers doesn't it? Why did the FIA feel the need to put it in the future regs, but allow it in the "current" era? Maybe Mercedes have been discussing this with the FIA for a lot longer than we all thought. And maybe like the mass dampers, and FIRC, other teams started developing it, and scrapped it along the way?

Mercedes probably have been discussing this for some time with the FIA, but I suspect that, at this stage of the season, changing the regulations would require a unanimous vote from the teams - and it's rather unlikely that Mercedes would want to vote against their own system.

The 2021 season is probably therefore the earliest chance that the FIA has to be able to rewrite the rules to ban this system, not to mention that it ties into the attitude of "discouraging loophole exploitation" that Brawn has talked about when discussing the 2021 rule package.