2022 Discussion Thread

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 08 Feb 2022, 01:11

Rob Dylan wrote:To be honest I think it's funnier than anything. What a waste of money by the Bahrainis to effectively get nothing other than, well, reducing interest in the sport

Exactly. It’s almost as if they don’t give a shite about F1.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 09 Feb 2022, 21:56

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:
Ok, just something I wanted to put out there. I recently read an article about how the Fox network (not Fox News, but still owned by Rupert Murdoch) bought the rights to broadcast NFL football in the mid 90s and what they did with it subsequently. If, like me, you were an NFL fan then, Fox made major upgrades to the style of the NFL broadcasts when they started. For instance, before then, the game's score was only shown periodically on screen, but Fox started the practice of always showing the score. They also brought in most of the information graphics and the useless graphical flourishes that now predominate as well.

If you haven't already, watch the documentary on John Madden. They talk about this era a ton.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 12 Feb 2022, 14:49

That sounds like something I’d enjoy watching.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 16 Feb 2022, 18:12

New Williams livery looks good, but disappointed that they are dropping the Senna Foundation logo for the first time since 1995. Because it apparently reminds the drivers of the events of the San Marino GP of 1994. Bollocks to that I say. I've never ever heard of that line of reasoning before. I've just lost a bit of respect for the team's new owners as a result. I'll probably still be a Williams fan for a time yet, but this won't win favour with me for sure.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Feb 2022, 08:28

dr-baker wrote:New Williams livery looks good, but disappointed that they are dropping the Senna Foundation logo for the first time since 1995. Because it apparently reminds the drivers of the events of the San Marino GP of 1994. Bollocks to that I say. I've never ever heard of that line of reasoning before. I've just lost a bit of respect for the team's new owners as a result. I'll probably still be a Williams fan for a time yet, but this won't win favour with me for sure.

It's a strange one, to say the least. It was a fairly symbolic thing anyway, if you didn't know the logo was there you probably wouldn't spot it, I don't think, and I'm sure they've done some research to see how many viewers were aware it was on there. But, that said, it would hardly disrupt the livery being left on.

I guess, to the new demographic that F1 wants to attract, old dead drivers like Senna are to be left firmly in the past, dragged out only for slo-mo video montages with Hunt, Ascari, and Clark etc, like a Fleetwood Mac chorus in a TikTok video.

EDIT - I've just read the comments by Capito and it reads terribly, they're taking the logo off but are looking at ways to help the Senna foundation even more although they aren't sure what sort of help it will be or when it will commence, no, they've not discussed it with the Senna family but eventually this move will be better for the foundation etc etc. He sounds like a politician trying to justify not feeding hungry children.

Quick thought - did Williams pay money to the foundation to display the logo? Is this all a cost-cutting exercise? :facepalm:

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 17 Feb 2022, 12:04

Yeah, looks like Williams is the team in name only - although I guess we knew that from the moment the investors bought it. I don't mind the look of the new car, even if it is very very very blue. What interests me more, with this Senna thing being the latest news on it, is what their forward direction for the team actually is. Do they intend to start a new team or to suck all the money they can out of the famous name?

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 17 Feb 2022, 18:21

My hot take is that I have never understood the Senna decal on the Williams in the first place. He had practically no relationship with the team, ran only three races with them, and finished none. The only connection he had with them was his (highly controversial to this day) death. If McLaren ran the sticker or Lotus? Sure, that makes perfect sense, but Williams? Meh. And despite what Twitter and Reddit claim, the removal of this tiny, hidden sticker will not doom the Senna Foundation to bankruptcy. And Senna himself will still get numerous tributes each year.

Now, as for launches, after 4 car reveals (and whatever the hell the Red Bull "launch" was supposed to be) can we FINALLY admit that the naysayers were wrong about the new regs? The cars are all fairly radically different.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 17 Feb 2022, 18:50

Wallio wrote:My hot take is that I have never understood the Senna decal on the Williams in the first place. He had practically no relationship with the team, ran only three races with them, and finished none. The only connection he had with them was his (highly controversial to this day) death. If McLaren ran the sticker or Lotus? Sure, that makes perfect sense, but Williams? Meh. And despite what Twitter and Reddit claim, the removal of this tiny, hidden sticker will not doom the Senna Foundation to bankruptcy. And Senna himself will still get numerous tributes each year.

A Williams was also the first F1 car that Senna ever tested/drove. Plus, I wonder if the Williams team did it out of guilt of having such a well-known driver die in one of their cars?

Rob Dylan wrote:Yeah, looks like Williams is the team in name only - although I guess we knew that from the moment the investors bought it. Do they intend to start a new team or to suck all the money they can out of the famous name?

I read an interesting Autosport article that said that Capito sees Williams not as a family team anymore but rather a professional engineering company. I work for the largest employer in Europe and 2nd largest employer in the world, but my immediate team still has a bit of a family feel to it. They don't have to mutually exclusive. It saddens me that he said that.

In other news, GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! Michael Masi is gone! :dance:

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 17 Feb 2022, 18:55

dr-baker wrote:I wonder if the Williams team did it out of guilt of having such a well-known driver die in one of their cars?

Bingo.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Feb 2022, 22:30

Wallio wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I wonder if the Williams team did it out of guilt of having such a well-known driver die in one of their cars?

Bingo.

Yeah, grief does that to people :lol:

So now that Masi is gone surely that means no more problems, doesn't it?

Doesn't it?

Post by **mario** » 17 Feb 2022, 22:47

CoopsII wrote:EDIT - I've just read the comments by Capito and it reads terribly, they're taking the logo off but are looking at ways to help the Senna foundation even more although they aren't sure what sort of help it will be or when it will commence, no, they've not discussed it with the Senna family but eventually this move will be better for the foundation etc etc. He sounds like a politician trying to justify not feeding hungry children.

Quick thought - did Williams pay money to the foundation to display the logo? Is this all a cost-cutting exercise?

To some extent, I do feel that there is sometimes a bit of a mawkish attachment to having the Senna symbol on the Williams cars and that there can be a bit of a morbid obsession with the memorialising of Senna, such that I can understand why some might find it a bit awkward and slightly creepy in some ways.

That said, if the team had decided to instead talk to the Senna foundation first and come to an agreement with them then, coupled with the news that they are setting part of Williams's museum over to Senna, they could have removed the logo and yet done so in a way that could have been considered respectful.

On a different note, as noted by dr-baker and as predicted by some here, Masi is being "offered a new position within the FIA" to remove him from his current role as race director. Indeed, the speculation is that Masi is being removed from any direct involvement with any racing series, instead being given a role within the internal governance of the FIA instead.

Niels Wittich and Eduardo Freitas are now going to be alternating the role of race director, and plans have also been put in place to create a "Virtual Race Control Room" which is intended to provide real time support to those at the circuit. https://www.fia.com/news/fia-president- ... refereeing

I will say that, to be frank, I'm relieved that Masi has gone before there has been a major accident because of the tendency he had to rush certain decisions. Events such as the near misses between drivers and marshals in Imola and restarting qualifying in Turkey before checking that the marshals had finished recovering the car they were ordered to recover were the consequences of rushing through procedures that exist for the safety and welfare of others.

I have not felt comfortable with the way that Masi has run proceedings - whilst Whiting was not perfect in his decision making, he was at least able to make the drivers and teams understand his point of view and was prepared to discuss situations with others. With Masi, he's been so inconsistent in his approach that, even well before events in Abu Dhabi, most drivers and teams felt they couldn't trust his word because of how quickly he'd change his mind, and the way that he seems to have treated most of the teams is such that none of them respected his authority either.

Freitas does seem to be a fairly solid choice in that respect, as the word is that he was quite highly regarded in the sportscar racing world and that, in the latter part of the 2021 season, the teams in F1 had been pushing for Masi to be replaced with Freitas on the grounds that he was a more competent race director.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Feb 2022, 10:31

To be honest, the announcement regarding the removal of the Senna logo has made more headlines than in 1995 when it first appeared. It was just there at the unveiling, no real explanation necessary.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 18 Feb 2022, 21:11

Wait....what?

https://twitter.com/MarioAndretti/statu ... ode%3Dtrue

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 21 Feb 2022, 20:03

Everyone seems to be in favor of Andretti coming in. At this point, I agree, I can't really see a good reason to keep him out. That said, is he expecting the FIA to waive the $200 million fee to join? I would think it worthwhile to at least reduce it if not waive it completely.

However, even with the budget cap in place, F1 is still by far the most expensive form of motorsport, many multiples of an indycar team. Do we think Andretti Autosport can afford it?

Post by **mario** » 21 Feb 2022, 20:33

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:Everyone seems to be in favor of Andretti coming in. At this point, I agree, I can't really see a good reason to keep him out. That said, is he expecting the FIA to waive the $200 million fee to join? I would think it worthwhile to at least reduce it if not waive it completely.

However, even with the budget cap in place, F1 is still by far the most expensive form of motorsport, many multiples of an indycar team. Do we think Andretti Autosport can afford it?

It is possible that Andretti might be hoping that if he can get Liberty Media on his side with the offer of an American team, most likely with an American driver, that they would lobby for the fee to be lifted, or at least mitigated in some way.

When he was angling for a possible deal with the Alfa Romeo team, there were reports that he had been lobbying the FIA to grant a dispensation for Herta to be given a superlicence, even though he technically didn't qualify for one, so it's possible he might want a similar arrangement on the commercial side of the sport.

I agree that the question is whether Andretti really does have the funds he would need to back up that proposal though, given that questions over long term funding was cited as a sticking point in the negotiations over possibly buying the Alfa Romeo team.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 24 Feb 2022, 14:24

In the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine...

Respect to Vettel for stating he will not race in Sochi. Hopefully a few other drivers will follow suit. I certainly expect it of Hamilton after his admirable work for inclusion and diversity

It will be interesting to see how F1 will handle the situation. I hope the race is cancelled/moved to Turkey but, of course, $$$$ will prevail.

And will Haas lose their sponsorship (and Mazepin) due to the international financial sanctions? Perhaps this is where Andretti gets an early entry.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Feb 2022, 18:22

IceG wrote:...
And will Haas lose their sponsorship (and Mazepin) due to the international financial sanctions? Perhaps this is where Andretti gets an early entry.

At least i can imagine that Mick's sponsors aren't quite happy with the russian flag being associated with their logos.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Feb 2022, 18:40

A Russian racing for an American team that competes in sport centred in Western Europe? Doesn't look good for Nikita does it? But who would Haas replace him with at this point?

Post by **mario** » 24 Feb 2022, 20:20

IceG wrote:In the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine...

Respect to Vettel for stating he will not race in Sochi. Hopefully a few other drivers will follow suit. I certainly expect it of Hamilton after his admirable work for inclusion and diversity

It will be interesting to see how F1 will handle the situation. I hope the race is cancelled/moved to Turkey but, of course, $$$$ will prevail.

And will Haas lose their sponsorship (and Mazepin) due to the international financial sanctions? Perhaps this is where Andretti gets an early entry.

Haas have confirmed that they are now removing the Uralkali sponsorship decals from their car, which will appear in a plain white livery tomorrow. With sanctions likely to be extended to Belarus as well, where Uralkali is particularly active, it is plausible that Mazepin could be amongst those targeted and the team could face problems with receiving payments from Mazepin.

As for the Russian GP, there are reports that the sport is already looking at dropping the Russian GP and switching to racing in Turkey. One thing that does point towards them cancelling the Russian GP is that the VTB finance group is the title sponsor of that race, and VTB is currently being sanctioned by multiple jurisdictions - the potential legal ramifications are thus likely to stop the race taking place.

dr-baker wrote:A Russian racing for an American team that competes in sport centred in Western Europe? Doesn't look good for Nikita does it? But who would Haas replace him with at this point?

Who knows, but it could be rather desperate measures - maybe, given they're running Mick Schumacher, they could make a pitch to Ferrari and offer a seat for a second Ferrari junior driver?

With Andretti making his pitch for a team, it does make you wonder if Andretti and Haas might be looking at cutting a deal with each other too - might we even see Andretti take over before the year is out?

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 24 Feb 2022, 20:34

Yeah, this situation would make the Andretti situation all the more easier for them. It's €200 million cheaper at the very least just for the entry fee to take over Haas than to make their own team. However, much I would love to see an 11th team on the grid, there's no way they're not considering this alternative plan of action now.

On from Mario's comment. If they have Mick Schumacher in one car and want to appease Ferrari, why not put Edoardo Barrichello in as his teammate? His record in the Formula Regional European Championship last year speaks for itself!

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 25 Feb 2022, 12:12

Russian Grand Prix cancelled, according to BBC.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 25 Feb 2022, 13:52

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Feb 2022, 14:32

Surely that’s the end of Mazepin too, although to his credit it took an actual war to stop him.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Feb 2022, 15:14

CoopsII wrote:Surely that’s the end of Mazepin too, although to his credit it took an actual war to stop him.

It's what the BBC article suggests.

MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx · Post by **MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx** » 25 Feb 2022, 17:28

It's not as if there aren't any other reasons for deciding not to go with Mazepin this season other than his nationality....

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 26 Feb 2022, 12:22

However much grief some of us have over Mazepin and his place in Formula 1, I can't imagine anyone is happy that he is losing a seat to such circumstances.

My sympathies are also with the members of the Haas team. They've spent a whole year waiting and building up for the new regulations, only for the rug to possibly be pulled out from under everything they've worked on at the last possible minute. I'm worried whether a last-minute buyout from the now public Andretti interest is their only hope. Getting another major sponsor at the level of Uralkari doesn't happen overnight at the very least.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 26 Feb 2022, 17:09

mario wrote:
With Andretti making his pitch for a team, it does make you wonder if Andretti and Haas might be looking at cutting a deal with each other too - might we even see Andretti take over before the year is out?

Eh, Gene is dense.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/andretti ... YQjiK0hzmU

Also, it's important to note something that very few people are reporting on. The Russian GP is NOT canceled. Not officially anyway. Liberty/FIA have merely said it cannot occur "under the CURRENT circumstances" (emphasis mine). They are very much leaving the door open if things change. September is a long time away.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Feb 2022, 19:19

Wallio wrote:Also, it's important to note something that very few people are reporting on. The Russian GP is NOT canceled. Not officially anyway. Liberty/FIA have merely said it cannot occur "under the CURRENT circumstances" (emphasis mine). They are very much leaving the door open if things change. September is a long time away.

And the organisers are reported as not offering refunds currently as they too do not yet see the event as cancelled.

Post by **mario** » 26 Feb 2022, 22:27

Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:
With Andretti making his pitch for a team, it does make you wonder if Andretti and Haas might be looking at cutting a deal with each other too - might we even see Andretti take over before the year is out?

Eh, Gene is dense.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/andretti ... YQjiK0hzmU

Also, it's important to note something that very few people are reporting on. The Russian GP is NOT canceled. Not officially anyway. Liberty/FIA have merely said it cannot occur "under the CURRENT circumstances" (emphasis mine). They are very much leaving the door open if things change. September is a long time away.

Well, it depends - it is possible that Gene might be wanting to see how the cars perform under the new regulations, and having those regulations pushed back a year might have contributed to that delay. If Haas's performances were to take a step upwards, then that in turn might revise upwards the value of the team - we also don't know what terms Andretti has made either (whilst he might have made a number of offers, we don't know if they were necessarily all that attractive).

It is a fair point about the Russian GP not officially being cancelled, though there may also be an element of Liberty Media not wanting to have to pay compensation to the Russian authorities by officially cancelling the race and thus being the ones terminating the contract. The sanctions on a number of Russian banks, including the one that was the main sponsor of the Russian GP, does make me wonder how they would make any payment for the race though, as I am not convinced that the sanctions will be gone by September.

Post by **Ataxia** » 28 Feb 2022, 18:19

Haas doesn't even have to enjoy an upswing in performance to build value; F1's audience is growing and the grid is essentially a closed shop. And either you spend millions on setting up a new team and paying the $200m dilution fee, or you spend marginally fewer millions on buying a going concern.

Theoretically, the team could finish 10th every year and still command a massive fee to change hands. And I believe Gene Haas is in a position where if he doesn't want to sell, he doesn't have to.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 28 Feb 2022, 19:15

Ataxia wrote:Haas doesn't even have to enjoy an upswing in performance to build value; F1's audience is growing and the grid is essentially a closed shop. And either you spend millions on setting up a new team and paying the $200m dilution fee, or you spend marginally fewer millions on buying a going concern.

Theoretically, the team could finish 10th every year and still command a massive fee to change hands. And I believe Gene Haas is in a position where if he doesn't want to sell, he doesn't have to.

Yeah, this is it. This is how most sports leagues work. They buy in and hold on while the asset appreciates and then sell at a profit. It helps protect the team owners, but it does remove some of the romance of a new team rocking up and giving it a go. Plus at this point, there are no longer any "family owned" teams, so protecting owners just means protecting obscenely rich people which is of dubious utility.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 02 Mar 2022, 14:59

Mazepin back in but out for Silverstone? Confusing times, looking forward to the write up of all this on the HWNSNBM page in ten years time if we all survive, of course.

Personally, I think he should be banned, as should the paralympians and every other frigger from Russia. No, it's not their fault but it's offensive to just carry on with sport as if nothings wrong. I don't expect it to make any difference, you might as well put Ukraine colours on your Facebook profile pic and expect it to help, but at some point surely you say; your country is not part of our world.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 02 Mar 2022, 19:42

I'm with you on that CoopsII

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 03 Mar 2022, 11:14

Russian Grand Prix contract terminated. Goodbye, Sochi, you will not be missed.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 03 Mar 2022, 11:54

RAK wrote:Russian Grand Prix contract terminated. Goodbye, Sochi, you will not be missed.

And Igora Drive, we can't miss what we never had.

I suppose in the future, if Russia ever attempts to and succeeds in winning favour with the West again, a new contract will be drawn up. It's not beyond the realms of possibility while we have several Middle Eastern countries on the calendar...

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 03 Mar 2022, 16:32

RAK wrote:Russian Grand Prix contract terminated. Goodbye, Sochi, you will not be missed.

And NOW it does appear to be official. I am quite surprised by this. Not upset, mind you. But genuinely surprised.

Post by **mario** » 03 Mar 2022, 20:15

Wallio wrote:
RAK wrote:Russian Grand Prix contract terminated. Goodbye, Sochi, you will not be missed.

And NOW it does appear to be official. I am quite surprised by this. Not upset, mind you. But genuinely surprised.

I agree that many did seem to think that Liberty Media might just suspend the contract, rather than cancel it altogether - although it has also placed the FIA in a somewhat difficult position, given that they are allowing Russian drivers to continue participating (albeit under neutral status).

There have also been some rumours going round suggesting that Mazepin is potentially on his way out of Haas, with Pietro Fittipaldi being given his seat. Whether that is simply what some wish to see happen is yet to be seen, but with the UK motorsport authorities confirming they won't accept drivers with a Russian licence competing in the UK, with suggestions others might follow, you can see why Haas might decide that they need to cut ties with Mazepin.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 03 Mar 2022, 22:59

Well if Dmitri's money is frozen, there is not a single reason why they'd keep Nikita. So even if Russian drivers wouldn't get banned, the fact that Russian money is banned has a far greated impact. And Haas is thankfully not stupid enough to let themself be paid in crypto

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 04 Mar 2022, 13:01

Butterfox wrote:Well if Dmitri's money is frozen, there is not a single reason why they'd keep Nikita. So even if Russian drivers wouldn't get banned, the fact that Russian money is banned has a far greated impact. And Haas is thankfully not stupid enough to let themself be paid in crypto

seeing the way things are going on that front, I'm going to say "famous last words"

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 04 Mar 2022, 14:04

Rob Dylan wrote:
Butterfox wrote:Well if Dmitri's money is frozen, there is not a single reason why they'd keep Nikita. So even if Russian drivers wouldn't get banned, the fact that Russian money is banned has a far greated impact. And Haas is thankfully not stupid enough to let themself be paid in crypto
seeing the way things are going on that front, I'm going to say "famous last words"

Did i just curse Haas for all eternity?