The Marcus Grönholm Rally Thread

[dr-baker]

This thread goes to show how desperately a new generation of WRC was needed. One post for the whole of the 2016 season. Grim.

And not even that one poster was all that interested, or following it that closely. Don't even know if any channels are showing highlights. S4C?

[andrew]

This thread goes to show how desperately a new generation of WRC was needed. One post for the whole of the 2016 season. Grim.

And not even that one poster was all that interested, or following it that closely. Don't even know if any channels are showing highlights. S4C?

Channel 5 on Monday evenings (19:00 uk time).

EDIT. Dramatic stage just took place, rally leader Nueville is now out! Ogier leads Ford Teamate Tanak with Latvala's Toyota 3rd.

[This Could Be You]

This thread goes to show how desperately a new generation of WRC was needed. One post for the whole of the 2016 season. Grim.

And not even that one poster was all that interested, or following it that closely. Don't even know if any channels are showing highlights. S4C?

If you're looking for WRC coverage, Red Bull TV are showing highlights programmes online at 9:00PM each evening (and showed Stage 12 live) for free; the quality of these programs far exceeds the stock WRC highlights Channel 5 uses (which are appallingly bad) and even rivals the Channel 4 coverage from the early 2000s (easily the best WRC coverage ever imo) in quality.

[Londoner]

Presumably to stop Latvala or Meeke writing off their cars, Stage 12 of Rally Sweden has been cancelled.

[DemocalypseNow]

Presumably to stop Latvala or Meeke writing off their cars, Stage 12 of Rally Sweden has been cancelled.

Didn't work for Meeke, worked well for Latvala!

Times are changing. Jari-Matti Latvala leads the WDC in a Toyota Yaris. Ott Tänak is 3rd. Hyundai and Citroen haven't had a single podium, despite the former clearly having a car with the pace to win rallies. Neuville/Hyundai is the fastest driver/car combo, and yet has only 8 points to show for it. It looks like we have four title contenders for three different manufacturers here.

For the first time in what must be well over a decade, we could finally have something bigger than just a two-way fight (or a solo run) for the title.

[DemocalypseNow]

A little surprised this thread still hasn't seen any action. Rally Mexico was interesting, with the order being thrown upside down and Kris Meeke winning despite crashing and then taking a tour round a car park on the very last stage.

Three different drivers and teams winning the first three events. The fastest car/driver combo of the Hyundai i20 Coupe and Thierry Neuville have only a single podium, so it could very well be four different winners in four events after Corsica.

WRC is worth paying attention to again. Good things are happening.

Red Bull TV are showing highlights programmes online at 9:00PM each evening (and showed Stage 12 live) for free; the quality of these programs far exceeds the stock WRC highlights Channel 5 uses (which are appallingly bad) and even rivals the Channel 4 coverage from the early 2000s (easily the best WRC coverage ever imo) in quality.

Having watched all three rallies, I can now say with confidence this isn't really true.

RBTV does not actually utilise any raw footage of the rally action itself. Instead, it takes the 22 minute world feed package that is sent to the likes of BT Sport (don't know about Channel 5, haven't watched it on that) and cuts it up, interspersing the global recording with general chat.

I've noticed a variety of pros and cons to the coverage;

Pros

• Mike Chen is a good presenter. He knows his way around the paddock and gets across enthusiasm for the sport.
• On Demand. If I miss the highlights on BT Sport, I can't go back whenever and watch it again. With RB TV, I can.
• They brought in Craig Breen for Mexico, as they did not bring a DS3 for him to race, and the second C3 was occupied by Stéphane Lefebvre. He was a tad uncomfortable in front of the camera, but was actually rather excellent as a colour commentator on the live stage coverage. He offered insight that was actually relevant and interesting, rather than just platitudes (will get to this later), and was so on top of what was happening, he was correcting mistakes made by Chen (e.g. pointing out it was Bertelli that had rolled rather than Latvala).

Cons

• Some of the cuts from RBTV produced video to global feed clips are somewhat rough and don't make narrative sense. Little bits of interesting information are lost to make time for the 'punditry'. RBTV has a 30 minute duration for WRC highlights, and usually over 10 minutes of punditry, when working with a 22 minute global feed. You can do the maths. For example, cutting to the afternoon stages on Saturday in Rally Mexico, the lead in suggests we are going back to the action, and straight away there is a side-by-side with Jari-Matti Latvala, which doesn't feel right. The global feed packages are designed to be slick - when you start shunting other clips in between the flow disappears.
• RBTV have gone for glitz and in-house promotion over quality. Mark Webber is an affable chap, and while it's interesting to see a world class driver exploring another side of motorsport, having him as a lone pundit doesn't make a great deal of sense. The one individual that is relied upon for this aspect is Matthew Wilson, who despite - I assume - having more prep than Craig Breen, has not added much to the conversation. Perhaps he is being directed to stick to platitudes and not get into the finer points, but whatever the reason, it's not adding anything to the coverage as of yet. And then there's Mexico, and the entirely pointless addition of Tavo Vildósola, who is a Trophy Truck driver from the Red Bull stable. OK, so he is Mexican, and drives off-road for a living, but that's where the relevant ended. His appearance made him seem like more of a marketing prop than actually there to cover anything relevant.
• Patchy on-demand availability. When I missed Day 2 of Rally Monte Carlo, it was online within the hour after first broadcast. Mexico highlights were broadcast at 4am due to the local time zone, but then highlights were still not uploaded as of midday.

Overall, I am lucky. I have BT Sport primarily for its Serie A coverage, but they also happen to have all the same content as WRC+, the premium online service - albeit not on-demand like WRC+. I would be getting a tad frustrated if RBTV was my only option.

[This Could Be You]

A little surprised this thread still hasn't seen any action. Rally Mexico was interesting, with the order being thrown upside down and Kris Meeke winning despite crashing and then taking a tour round a car park on the very last stage.

Three different drivers and teams winning the first three events. The fastest car/driver combo of the Hyundai i20 Coupe and Thierry Neuville have only a single podium, so it could very well be four different winners in four events after Corsica.

WRC is worth paying attention to again. Good things are happening.

Red Bull TV are showing highlights programmes online at 9:00PM each evening (and showed Stage 12 live) for free; the quality of these programs far exceeds the stock WRC highlights Channel 5 uses (which are appallingly bad) and even rivals the Channel 4 coverage from the early 2000s (easily the best WRC coverage ever imo) in quality.

Having watched all three rallies, I can now say with confidence this isn't really true.

RBTV does not actually utilise any raw footage of the rally action itself. Instead, it takes the 22 minute world feed package that is sent to the likes of BT Sport (don't know about Channel 5, haven't watched it on that) and cuts it up, interspersing the global recording with general chat.

I've noticed a variety of pros and cons to the coverage;

Pros

• Mike Chen is a good presenter. He knows his way around the paddock and gets across enthusiasm for the sport.
• On Demand. If I miss the highlights on BT Sport, I can't go back whenever and watch it again. With RB TV, I can.
• They brought in Craig Breen for Mexico, as they did not bring a DS3 for him to race, and the second C3 was occupied by Stéphane Lefebvre. He was a tad uncomfortable in front of the camera, but was actually rather excellent as a colour commentator on the live stage coverage. He offered insight that was actually relevant and interesting, rather than just platitudes (will get to this later), and was so on top of what was happening, he was correcting mistakes made by Chen (e.g. pointing out it was Bertelli that had rolled rather than Latvala).

Cons

• Some of the cuts from RBTV produced video to global feed clips are somewhat rough and don't make narrative sense. Little bits of interesting information are lost to make time for the 'punditry'. RBTV has a 30 minute duration for WRC highlights, and usually over 10 minutes of punditry, when working with a 22 minute global feed. You can do the maths. For example, cutting to the afternoon stages on Saturday in Rally Mexico, the lead in suggests we are going back to the action, and straight away there is a side-by-side with Jari-Matti Latvala, which doesn't feel right. The global feed packages are designed to be slick - when you start shunting other clips in between the flow disappears.
• RBTV have gone for glitz and in-house promotion over quality. Mark Webber is an affable chap, and while it's interesting to see a world class driver exploring another side of motorsport, having him as a lone pundit doesn't make a great deal of sense. The one individual that is relied upon for this aspect is Matthew Wilson, who despite - I assume - having more prep than Craig Breen, has not added much to the conversation. Perhaps he is being directed to stick to platitudes and not get into the finer points, but whatever the reason, it's not adding anything to the coverage as of yet. And then there's Mexico, and the entirely pointless addition of Tavo Vildósola, who is a Trophy Truck driver from the Red Bull stable. OK, so he is Mexican, and drives off-road for a living, but that's where the relevant ended. His appearance made him seem like more of a marketing prop than actually there to cover anything relevant.
• Patchy on-demand availability. When I missed Day 2 of Rally Monte Carlo, it was online within the hour after first broadcast. Mexico highlights were broadcast at 4am due to the local time zone, but then highlights were still not uploaded as of midday.

Overall, I am lucky. I have BT Sport primarily for its Serie A coverage, but they also happen to have all the same content as WRC+, the premium online service - albeit not on-demand like WRC+. I would be getting a tad frustrated if RBTV was my only option.

You have a fair point, I'll admit; BT Sport was far better, when it worked (mine was inconsistently functional in 2014, until the account stopped working), and some of the pundits were frustrating (Wilson's admittedly unsurprising M-Sport bias irked me, for instance).

However, compared to the other free-to-air option, Channel 5, it is superior in almost every way; on that coverage, you will see about ten minutes out of all three days of rallying, all compacted at either end of the coverage to fit in some pointless, dull 25 minute segment about an "unseen" part of rallying (e.g the Hyundai Nutritionist's role, or how important the M-Sport gravel crew is, as they have repeated at least once every year since 2006). The way it is cut also makes it extremely difficult to follow the actual positions after each stage or leg, (this is why RBTV cuts so abruptly) making any tension or even enthusiasm for the race impossible to muster, to the point that after Mexico 2016, I stopped bothering to watch, as it was painful trying to follow without shouting at the TV.

Well, that turned into a rant quickly...

[dr-baker]

There is coverage on S4C as well. But while it is available on BBC iPlayer to stream again, it can't be downloaded, and English subtitles are not available. And it seems heavy on interviews with A. Rees and Elfyn Evans, for obvious reasons (they can speak Welsh...). And not so much footage. (I'm only skim-watching an episode at the moment, for linguistic reasons). But there is some footage of the non-Welsh action in Mexico, and a look at what I assume was the concurrent Historic Rally.

ADDITION: The S4C coverage ended very abruptly after the Kris Meeke car park incident...

[Dexter249]

So, I thought we would have a rally thread (I mean it's 2017, we should've had a thread years ago).
Now, the title is a reference to the drivers jumping ship to rival teams
So one big example
Tommi Makinen, Mitsubishi to Subaru.
But, back to the topic at hand,
The North American rally season is coming to a close, with the final event, the "Big White Winter Rally" in Kelowna, BC from December 8th to 10th, will be the decider for the North American Championship.
With Antoine L'estage and Subaru Rally Team Canada, dominating since 2015, this year will be his 9th Canadian Championship and 7th in a row since 2010, However the Decider will be the Rally of the Tall Pines in Bancroft, Ontario, Next week, from November 24th to 25th, the event is called "hell" for a reason, if you've seen Rally Finland, you've seen Tall Pines, "Crazy" Leo Urlichich is only 15 points behind, If L'estage fails to finish it will be his First Championship.
With Subaru locking up manufacturers with 83 entries, it's almost decided that the 2WD championship will be won by Ford.
Anyways, feel free to post you're National Championships or the WRC.

[Salamander]

So, I thought we would have a rally thread (I mean it's 2017, we should've had a thread years ago).

Here's a shocker: we in fact already do have a rally thread.

[Dexter249]

Ok then, I might rename this to National Competition because there's not just the WRC.
This thread is for Club, Regional and National competition.

[Nuppiz]

Considering that even the WRC thread has not seen any activity since March, I think it's best if we keep all rallying discussion in one thread.

And why did I name it after Grönholm, besides fervent nationalism? Well...

[DemocalypseNow]

Bit disappointed it's not the Stéphane Sarrazin Rally Thread, but okay...

[Dexter249]

Rally of the Tall Pines kicks off in Bancroft, ON tomorrow,
Canadian Championship will be decided.

[Nessafox]

Bit disappointed it's not the Stéphane Sarrazin Rally Thread, but okay...

Should have been Pedro Chaves rally thread

[Bleu]

Talking about rally reject, it should have been Fabrizio de Sanctis rally thread. Something like 30 participations in Rally Finland as a privateer.

[Dexter249]

A bit late on this, Subaru Rally Team Canada is dead.

[dr-baker]

A bit late on this, Subaru Rally Team Canada is dead.

There was a Subaru Rally Team Canada?!!!?!???

[Bobby Doorknobs]

A bit late on this, Subaru Rally Team Canada is dead.

There was a Subaru Rally Team Canada?!!!?!???

Evidently, Doctor, you need to brush up on your Canadian Rally Championship knowledge, it's the one national rally season this side of Mauritius that everybody's talking about!

Meanwhile, Craig Breen's second place in Sweden was nice to watch unfold, even if I only knew it was on on the final two days and I had to rely on text updates (a symptom of my more casual approach to motorsport viewing over the past year). And I probably wouldn't have known about it at all if I hadn't seen the Motorsport.ie Facebook page going mental over his performance. Mildly annoying after this that he's the one giving up his seat for Loeb but that's how it is, will nevertheless be exciting to see the maestro in action again. Also nice to see Neuville at the head of the table for a change.

But continuing the theme of national series, you all need to pay close attention to the Irish Tarmac Rally Championship this year. Because I said so, that's why! https://motorsport.ie/2018/02/11/the-20 ... l-preview/

I may be taking the piss a little bit, but I'm sure it'll be good.

[CarloSpace]

Breen is steadily becoming my favourite driver in the WRC. The guy loves the sport with all his heart and it's evident in every interview he gives. His interview at the finish of Rally Finland two years ago when he got his first podium finish is just so emotional and genuine. I love going back to it but sadly there isn't a full version in YouTube available. And you know, he's been through so much down the years (his co-driver Gareth Roberts was killed in a similar crash to Kubica's in 2012) and has still managed to make it to the top.

It's a real shame he has to give up his seat to Loeb because in Sweden he was so much faster than Meeke (and generally multiple times more reliable too) that I believe he has much better shot at the title (though still a longshot) than Meeke. The best option would've been to field a third car for Loeb in Mexico. I hardly think Loeb will be at Breen's level, it's been five years since his last semi-serious rally season so there's no way he can be up to speed, right?

[Dexter249]

Breen is steadily becoming my favourite driver in the WRC. The guy loves the sport with all his heart and it's evident in every interview he gives. His interview at the finish of Rally Finland two years ago when he got his first podium finish is just so emotional and genuine. I love going back to it but sadly there isn't a full version in YouTube available. And you know, he's been through so much down the years (his co-driver Gareth Roberts was killed in a similar crash to Kubica's in 2012) and has still managed to make it to the top.

It's a real shame he has to give up his seat to Loeb because in Sweden he was so much faster than Meeke (and generally multiple times more reliable too) that I believe he has much better shot at the title (though still a longshot) than Meeke. The best option would've been to field a third car for Loeb in Mexico. I hardly think Loeb will be at Breen's level, it's been five years since his last semi-serious rally season so there's no way he can be up to speed, right?

Monte Carlo 2015 would Disagree with that, Remember Loeb has been driving in WRX these past two seasons, those cars are more bonkers than the new WRC ones, in 2015 at the Monte, he held the lead until he made a rare mistake, Only Ogier was faster than him, Then again it has been 14 years since a driver without the First name Sebastien won the Championship.

[DemocalypseNow]

Breen is steadily becoming my favourite driver in the WRC. The guy loves the sport with all his heart and it's evident in every interview he gives. His interview at the finish of Rally Finland two years ago when he got his first podium finish is just so emotional and genuine. I love going back to it but sadly there isn't a full version in YouTube available. And you know, he's been through so much down the years (his co-driver Gareth Roberts was killed in a similar crash to Kubica's in 2012) and has still managed to make it to the top.

It's a real shame he has to give up his seat to Loeb because in Sweden he was so much faster than Meeke (and generally multiple times more reliable too) that I believe he has much better shot at the title (though still a longshot) than Meeke. The best option would've been to field a third car for Loeb in Mexico. I hardly think Loeb will be at Breen's level, it's been five years since his last semi-serious rally season so there's no way he can be up to speed, right?

Breen's always got good craic, which is incredible given the tumultuous journey he's taken to get to where he is now.

I'm sure Loeb will be competitive out of the box, or at least as competitive as the car allows. He's racked up plenty of kilometres in private testing with the C3, he still actively competes in other forms of motorsport and has done since departing the WRC, and the natural talent that won him so many titles won't have simply vanished. Combined with favourable road order position on day one, I think a podium finish is definitely possible. Perhaps even a tilt at victory.

Meeke, Evans and Sordo along with Loeb will be ones to watch in Mexico. Neuville, Ogier and Latvala will be hamstrung on day one by gravel sweeping. It's a great opportunity for Sordo especially; if he can't get a podium they might as well just give Paddon the third Hyundai for the rest of the season.

[DemocalypseNow]

Meeke, Evans and Sordo along with Loeb will be ones to watch in Mexico. Neuville, Ogier and Latvala will be hamstrung on day one by gravel sweeping. It's a great opportunity for Sordo especially; if he can't get a podium they might as well just give Paddon the third Hyundai for the rest of the season.

Yup.



It had been Sordo-Meeke-Loeb-Evans until the latter's big crash in Ortega 1. Look at Tanak though! 11s off the lead with anti-lag turned off all day combined with a difficult road position. Exceptional. Admittedly helped by Sordo taking the wrong tyres in the afternoon, but still.

[dr-baker]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1407 ... wrc-future

So the team that won won last year's manufacturer's title and this year's drivers and co-drivers title is asking for an extension for entering the 2019 season, because they currently have no cash to be able to make the commitment. Currently the deadline for entering the Monte Carlo Rally is also this Friday...

[CarloSpace]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140701/msport-seeks-extension-in-fight-for-wrc-future

So the team that won won last year's manufacturer's title and this year's drivers and co-drivers title is asking for an extension for entering the 2019 season, because they currently have no cash to be able to make the commitment. Currently the deadline for entering the Monte Carlo Rally is also this Friday...

Sad times It would be a huge shame if M-Sport wasn't able to do whole season. Sure they wouldn't be challenging for either titles without Ogier so I guess it's understandable that funding is hard to come by, especially with Ford barely providing any financing.

Whether they get the extension or funding, I'm pretty sure M-Sport will contest some rounds of the championship, if not every round. Perhaps just selected European rounds with Suninen since he has the money. Sweden, Finland, GB at least?

Anyway, I'm 100% sure Malcolm will come back as he has done in the past. Maybe he should start looking for some alternatives to Ford as they seem very reluctant to support his team. I wonder if finding partners was easier if WRC focused more on environmental-friendly development...

[dr-baker]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1433 ... windscreen

Interesting debate on safety.

[dr-baker]

Rally Australia has been cancelled due to forest fires, thus handing the teams title to Hyundai. It seems like they considered a shortened route, but the spreading of the wild fires put paid to that plan.

[dr-baker]

[Har1MAS1415]

Rest In Peace Craig Breen