"New races for old! New races for old!"

[PWNSNBM]

Bernie Ecclestone is saying he wants 20 races on the calendar...

Link: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-current-races-may-be-shed-for-new-ones/

So, given my understanding of the Bernie's position: F1 is boring, unless you get "lucky".
From the first 3 races of 2010, i presume he means: Luck = rain.

In which case, in or out?
1) Deserts - Bahrain, Abu Dhabi
2) Tsunami Rim - Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Korea, Japan
3) New World - Canada, Brazil
4) The Med - Monaco, Monza, Catalunya, Valencia
5) The North - Spa, Silverstone, Nurburgring
6) Misc - Hungary, Turkey

If one were to establish a "lucky" F1 calendar, what would it look like?
Any thoughts, gentlemen?

[mario]

Bernie Ecclestone is saying he wants 20 races on the calendar...

Link: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-current-races-may-be-shed-for-new-ones/

So, given my understanding of the Bernie's position: F1 is boring, unless you get "lucky".
From the first 3 races of 2010, i presume he means: Luck = rain.

In which case, in or out?
1) Deserts - Bahrain, Abu Dhabi
2) Tsunami Rim - Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Korea, Japan
3) New World - Canada, Brazil
4) The Med - Monaco, Monza, Catalunya, Valencia
5) The North - Spa, Silverstone, Nurburgring
6) Misc - Hungary, Turkey

If one were to establish a "lucky" F1 calendar, what would it look like?
Any thoughts, gentlemen?

Bernie constantly wants to change the show, since he can find a new bunch of suckers - sorry, investors - that he can squeeze every last coin out of. As Silverstone has signed a new contract, we can assume that it is safe for now, as would be Monza, Spa and Monaco, whilst the Hungaroring has a contract for the next 7-8 years (how, I'll never know). Suzuka is hopefully secure, and the new circuits in Abu Dhabi, Bahrein, Korea and India are probably safe for now (tragically).
The most precarious races are probably Turkey (since Bernie has to fund that circuit out of his pocket since he bought the track, and it has been running at loss for some time now) and Canada (yes, they have signed a contract, but the wrangling that went on means that Bernie might pull out of there in the future). Melbourne isn't entirely comfortable, either, if Bernie changes to a street circuit in Sydney.

On the other hand, if I could pick the tracks, Valencia (that circuit is one of the most boring places on earth), Bahrein and Abu Dhabi would go, alongside the Hungaroring, Circuit de Catalunya and China.
The Circuit de Catalunya could be replaced with Portimao (which does have an F1 licence, the infrastructure, and a halfway decent track, due to the elevation changes), and a French GP could be back at Paul Ricard (which could hold a race, at the very least until somewhere else is found for it). Although I dislike the track, Indianapolis could be used for a US GP (which would appeal to the manufacturers). A race in somewhere like Kyalami wouldn't go amiss, and another race in South America too (say, in Argentina, where there used to be a race until recently).

Any other suggestions?

[Aerond]

Bernie constantly wants to change the show, since he can find a new bunch of suckers - sorry, investors - that he can squeeze every last coin out of. As Silverstone has signed a new contract, we can assume that it is safe for now, as would be Monza, Spa and Monaco, whilst the Hungaroring has a contract for the next 7-8 years (how, I'll never know). Suzuka is hopefully secure, and the new circuits in Abu Dhabi, Bahrein, Korea and India are probably safe for now (tragically).
The most precarious races are probably Turkey (since Bernie has to fund that circuit out of his pocket since he bought the track, and it has been running at loss for some time now) and Canada (yes, they have signed a contract, but the wrangling that went on means that Bernie might pull out of there in the future). Melbourne isn't entirely comfortable, either, if Bernie changes to a street circuit in Sydney.

On the other hand, if I could pick the tracks, Valencia (that circuit is one of the most boring places on earth), Bahrein and Abu Dhabi would go, alongside the Hungaroring, Circuit de Catalunya and China.
The Circuit de Catalunya could be replaced with Portimao (which does have an F1 licence, the infrastructure, and a halfway decent track, due to the elevation changes), and a French GP could be back at Paul Ricard (which could hold a race, at the very least until somewhere else is found for it). Although I dislike the track, Indianapolis could be used for a US GP (which would appeal to the manufacturers). A race in somewhere like Kyalami wouldn't go amiss, and another race in South America too (say, in Argentina, where there used to be a race until recently).

Any other suggestions?

I don´t think Spain will lose both GP´s... Spain certainly needs a better track than Circuit de Catalunya. Portimao simply won´t happen as nobody in Portugal will put the money for a GP there. I also think Valencia won´t be extended after 2014. Paul Ricard is a great track and I can´t understand yet how it lost the French GP against Magny Course. Indianapolis won´t happen as Bernie is obsessed with a New York street circuit and Kyalami... I don´t know how you can propose that and moan about Valencia. The "new" Kyalami is one of the most boring tracks in modern F1, alongside Buenos Aires. I would bring a second race to Japan at Fuji or Motegi, both are great tracks. I don´t see lots of options regarding new countries. Argentina and Mexico don´t have a penny for a F1 race, Africa isn´t an option as well... It´s all about Europe and Asia regarding new countries, and I´m very suprised Losail (Qatar) isn´t in F1 plans. Probably Russia will happen sometime this decade as well. I like Chinese GP I don´t see the need to change that one.

[RAK]

The tracks I'd be most willing to remove are the obvious ones - Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Catalunya, Valencia, Hungary, and possibly Korea, depending on how it goes this year. That said, I'm not so convinced that the tracks would be any more exciting in Russia or India or where ever Ecclestone wants to go next, and I'm a bit lost about his suggestion for a street race in New Jersey, of all places, even if I can see the locational appeal in having it close to Manhattan.

[PWNSNBM]

F1 Calendar:
---------------
Brazil
Istanbul
Bahrain
Abu Dhabi

Barcelona
Valencia
Monaco
Silverstone
Nurburgring
Budapest

Montreal
Korea
Shanghai
Suzuka
Fuji

Spa
Monza

Melbourne
Singapore
Kuala Lumpur

[mediocre]

I don´t think Spain will lose both GP´s... Spain certainly needs a better track than Circuit de Catalunya.

How about Motorland Aragon? Though it seems to be in the middle of nowhere, at least from what I recall from the Formula Renault race...

Why was Kyalami removed in 1994?

[Nessafox]

I don´t think Spain will lose both GP´s... Spain certainly needs a better track than Circuit de Catalunya.

How about Motorland Aragon? Though it seems to be in the middle of nowhere, at least from what I recall from the Formula Renault race...

just take montjuic back, that was actually a decent street track

[mario]

I don´t think Spain will lose both GP´s... Spain certainly needs a better track than Circuit de Catalunya.

How about Motorland Aragon? Though it seems to be in the middle of nowhere, at least from what I recall from the Formula Renault race...

Why was Kyalami removed in 1994?

Being in the middle of nowhere was a problem for Mangy Cours too, yet they still managed to get a race there.
As for Kyalami's removal, that was down to the fact that the promoter went bankrupt in 1994, and nobody wanted to take on the job of promoter for an F1 race (although the circuit does host a fair number of alternative events). I'll admit that there was a fair amount of hope there, since I know that it is very unlikely that F1 will go there.

Bernie constantly wants to change the show, since he can find a new bunch of suckers - sorry, investors - that he can squeeze every last coin out of. As Silverstone has signed a new contract, we can assume that it is safe for now, as would be Monza, Spa and Monaco, whilst the Hungaroring has a contract for the next 7-8 years (how, I'll never know). Suzuka is hopefully secure, and the new circuits in Abu Dhabi, Bahrein, Korea and India are probably safe for now (tragically).
The most precarious races are probably Turkey (since Bernie has to fund that circuit out of his pocket since he bought the track, and it has been running at loss for some time now) and Canada (yes, they have signed a contract, but the wrangling that went on means that Bernie might pull out of there in the future). Melbourne isn't entirely comfortable, either, if Bernie changes to a street circuit in Sydney.

On the other hand, if I could pick the tracks, Valencia (that circuit is one of the most boring places on earth), Bahrein and Abu Dhabi would go, alongside the Hungaroring, Circuit de Catalunya and China.
The Circuit de Catalunya could be replaced with Portimao (which does have an F1 licence, the infrastructure, and a halfway decent track, due to the elevation changes), and a French GP could be back at Paul Ricard (which could hold a race, at the very least until somewhere else is found for it). Although I dislike the track, Indianapolis could be used for a US GP (which would appeal to the manufacturers). A race in somewhere like Kyalami wouldn't go amiss, and another race in South America too (say, in Argentina, where there used to be a race until recently).

Any other suggestions?

I don´t think Spain will lose both GP´s... Spain certainly needs a better track than Circuit de Catalunya. Portimao simply won´t happen as nobody in Portugal will put the money for a GP there. I also think Valencia won´t be extended after 2014. Paul Ricard is a great track and I can´t understand yet how it lost the French GP against Magny Course. Indianapolis won´t happen as Bernie is obsessed with a New York street circuit and Kyalami... I don´t know how you can propose that and moan about Valencia. The "new" Kyalami is one of the most boring tracks in modern F1, alongside Buenos Aires. I would bring a second race to Japan at Fuji or Motegi, both are great tracks. I don´t see lots of options regarding new countries. Argentina and Mexico don´t have a penny for a F1 race, Africa isn´t an option as well... It´s all about Europe and Asia regarding new countries, and I´m very suprised Losail (Qatar) isn´t in F1 plans. Probably Russia will happen sometime this decade as well. I like Chinese GP I don´t see the need to change that one.

I am not entirely sure why Paul Ricard lost the French GP to Mangy Cours, but it probably comes down in part to the death of de Angelis, and the subsequent changes they made to the track to prevent such an accident occurring again. The facilities at the track are also fairly basic, and would probably not be capable of hosting a major race there without a major refit - which probably explains why the FIA says it is only fit for testing F1 cars.

As for Fuji, it isn't going to happen - Toyota, who own the Fuji circuit, have made it very clear that they do not want to pay for the cost of an F1 race. Motegi might be an interesting track, but the transport infrastructure is simply not capable of hosting a major race, and the sight lines of the road course are not that good (because of the high speed ring complex). Equally, Honda (who own Motegi) already have a race at Suzuka - so they might baulk at the cost of having to host another race.

The only reason I brought up Indianapolis is because the crowds have traditionally been colossal there - often in the order of 200,000. Even though Bernie is obsessed with New York (even though he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting a race there), the teams are more likely to be interested in Indianapolis. Given that Bernie is obsessed with Russia as well, there will probably be a race there at some point, and knowing Bernie, it'll be another street circuit - he'd probably put it slap across Red Square.
And before anybody asks, although a few street circuits are fine by me, I'm worried that Bernie will flood us with street circuits (there is Monaco, Valencia and Singapore, and now he wants one in New Jersey, another in Russia, another in Rome - too many tracks where overtaking will be very limited).

[AndreaModa]

So here's how I'd go about putting a calender together, I think tracks can be split into a number of categories:

Number 1, the 'core' European audience, F1's homeland consisting of the four main European nations:
Britain - Silverstone
Germany - either Hockenheim or Nurburgring
Italy - Monza
France - at the moment it seems Paul Ricard is the most ideal, and the current situation desperately needs sorting. I was in France over the weekend and there wasn't an ounce of coverage on F1 in the news. The French need their grand prix back, not only for historical reasons, but also to attract French drivers - where have they all gone? and also to keep companies like Renault and Total interested and attract others like Michelin who are rumoured to be returning if the FIA open the tyre contract to more than one supplier.

All of these four must be included on the calender. Its that simple if F1 wants to maintain a decently sized audience.

The second category is those tracks that hold a historical presence in the calender, but are in marginal areas where audiences are limited and facilites and funding less secure:
Monaco - okay the funding issue probably isn't the case here and the calender wouldn't be the same without it, but the comments about the cars being too big for the circuit have been ringing around for the past 30 years.
Belgium - Spa
San Marino - Imola
Austria - A1-Ring - maybe not that great a presence but it's had its fair share of races in both forms.
Canada - Montreal

These tracks hold a special place within the main followers of F1 and if asked would like to see all of these included in the calender. In reality, realistically only two or three could be included in a season, so we'll go with the current three of Monaco, Spa and Montreal.

Thirdly, we have tracks that pull in large audiences similar to the core European nations and are vital for F1's continued global presence. In this instance we're not only considering current audiences but the potential in the future.
America - whether its Indianapolis, New York's streets or anywhere else, its vitally important that F1 gets back into North America in a big way, Canada does it's bit but the big bucks are further south.
China - Shanghai - I personally quite like the track, the straights allow for some good slip-streaming and overtaking, and the audience not only now, but in the future is potentially massive.
India - We have an Indian team and the second ever Indian driver in an F1 field. If that's not a good enough reason to have an Indian Grand Prix, perhaps the 1 billion punters will change your mind. Like China, the potential audience in this growing country is incredible.
Japan - Suzuka (alternatively if this is considered not up to safety standards, there is Motegi as others have mentioned or Fuji if they find the money)

All four of these need to be in the calender, so that brings the total currently up to 11 races. If we're going on the premise of 20 races in a season, we still have the other half of the season to fill...

The fourth category is those countries that have or have had grands prix for a long period of time, not enough to give them the historical status of those in the second category, but enough to warrant their inclusion on a calender:
Brazil - Interlagos
Spain - if not Catalunya, then there are others waiting in the wings - Jerez or the new Motorland Aragon track
Australia - Albert Park
Hungary - it pains me to say it, but they do a good job, and have done since it was added in the late 80s. If the Hungaroring falls out of favour, the Balatonring could take its place, if they ever finish it! Looking forward to seeing the MotoGP use it, not sure whether it will lend itself to better racing but nothing can get worse than the current track!
Portugal - Estoril or the new Portimao circuit
Argentina - god knows where, maybe that circuit that was mentioned a little while back that holds the GT races! Buenos Aires is a terrible track now so the options are limited here, especially in a country that seems to be in permanent dire financial straits.
South Africa - Kyalami, or another venue perhaps

All of these could be considered potential inclusions on the calender, in reality the last two clearly won't be in the next decade at least. For 2011 if we were to be sensible, Brazil, Spain and Australia would be included, bringing our running total to 14 races.

Category number 5 is the most popular amongst die hard F1 fans, the Tilke-dromes! All the new tracks that have been added in the last 10 years or so:
Malaysia - Sepang - probably the track most liked and most likely to be included out of all of Tilke's tracks
Bahrain - in the middle of nowhere, looked crap this season and serves up crap races in front of a crap trackside audience
Turkey - Istanbul Park - very good track, real shame it's where it is with no one watching
Korea - we'll have to wait and see for a couple of seasons before we know if it really is any good
Singapore - Marina Bay - despite the 'night race' hype, it's the noughties version of the deluge of American street circuits we got in the 80s. Pretty uninspiring.
Valencia Street Circuit - enough has been said already, we gave it a chance after the first race there, when the second was no better it was the final nail in the coffin.
Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina - needs another year like valencia had. Another poor race and this place could well be in trouble with the fans too.

With the best facilites and safest circuits, it is this lot that are the future of F1 and with 5 or 6 slots left on our calender, the best bets are Sepang and obviously Korea, the country is wealthy and the potential for a Japan-like race is high, let's hope the racing is good as the venue could have a good future. Of the rest, I'd include Turkey and Abu Dhabi. Odd choices I know, but Istanbul offers a real challenge for the drivers, the like not seen for a while, and whilst I'd like to see packed stands, I'd take a good circuit and decent racing over that any day. Abu Dhabi needs more time to prove itself, compared to Valencia and Singapore which have had two seasons to demonstrate their ineptitude. Marina Bay might be interesting but it's bland and wouldn't be there without the night race tag.

So that's only 4 choices to add to the 14 giving us an 18 race season. I've deliberately left a couple of slots free to include the peculiar F1 tradition of running a second race in a country that is enjoying a particularly good run in the championship. For a while it was Germany, now it's Spain with two GPs. Currently it seems us Brits are enjoying a purple patch but with Donington a mess and Brands too unsafe for F1 we'll leave that one for the moment. The Rome street race will take the European title when it's ready but before then, with the Nurburgring swapping yearly with Hockenheim for the German GP, Jerez is probably the best bet for the short term. Alternatively Hungary could go here but I'd rather see Jerez over the Hungaroring.

The final slot in a 20 race calender would go to a new addition such as Russia or wherever Bernie decides to take the circus next. Though I'll go on record now and say 2011 will be a 19 race season.

So my ideal 2011 calender would look something like this:
1. Australia - Albert Park
2. Malaysia - Sepang
3. China - Shanghai
4. Spain - Catalunya
5. Monaco - Monte Carlo
6. Turkey - Istanbul Park
7. Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina
8. USA - Indianapolis
9. Canada - Montreal
10. France - Paul Ricard
11. Great Britain - Silverstone
12. Germany - Nurburgring
13. Belgium - Spa Francorchamps
14. Italy - Monza
15. Europe - Jerez
16. India - India
17. Korea - Korea
18. Japan - Suzuka
19. Brazil - Interlagos

There we go! What do we think to that then?

[Barbazza]

Dallas, Las Vegas, Long Beach and Detroit back then please - they weren't boring! Not that many Americans noticed sadly.

[FullMetalJack]

Dallas, Las Vegas, Long Beach and Detroit back then please - they weren't boring! Not that many Americans noticed sadly.

What about Phoenix?

[Jynister]

The tracks I'd like to see stay would be Monaco, Montreal, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Suzuka and Interlagos.

I quite like a couple of the newer circuits, like Singapores Marina Bay, Sepang and Instanbul Park. The rest i'm not too fussed about.

In terms of what I'd like to see returning to F1, maybe old Hockenheim and A1-Ring. I believe half the old Hockenheim was effectively destroyed when they finished the new circuit and A1-Ring is falling (or fell) to bits. Last I heard Alex Wurz wanted to buy it to turn it into a racing school but the cost of repairs was way too high.

Maybe F1 can try going to some bumpy little club circuits.

[shinji]

Dallas, Las Vegas, Long Beach and Detroit back then please - they weren't boring! Not that many Americans noticed sadly.

What about Phoenix?

It moved to Spain.

[mario]

AndreaModa, that is quite a well written post, and I would say that you have put together a list of venues which would be practical for a 2011 calendar (even if we know that Bernie will pick the cash cows in the Middle East and Asia, where governments are willing to throw money at Bernie in order to make a name for themselves, over the more interesting but less wealthy venues elsewhere). It'd probably make for a damn site more interesting track list then Bernie's eventual listing, I'll bet...

[watka]

I personally don't think the calendar should change that much. Furthermore, any circuit coming off the calendar is more likely to be replaced by a brand new circuit than an established (or update of) circuit. The list of 1 and 1A tracks that could be used for F1 is pretty uninspiring in offering any realistic new venues: http://www.fpak.pt/homologacoes/2009/LI ... %20FIA.pdf

It seems that the Turkish and Canadian Grand Prix are under the most threat in the short term. As was said, Turkey is a loss making race and one of 3 in the Middle East, and I don't see it fighting off competition from Bahrain and Abu Dhabi. Canada is becoming one of those on-off races, and I think Bernie knows that F1 should really be racing there, but he's not afraid to cut it off, especially if he could get a US GP going.

I would like to see a French GP, Paul Ricard being the only logical location. The Paris plans seemed to have fallen through, and I don't think that many would complain about using Paul Ricard. I also don't think Spain needs 2 GPs, just because of Alonso. If it has 2, at least hold one of them at Motorland Aragon. I'd also like to see the Austrian GP return at the A-1 Ring (Red Bull has proposed buying and extending the circuit), perhaps alternating with Hungary. A Korean GP seems to be one too many races in the Far East for me, with Japan, China, Malaysia, and Singapore all on the calendar too, although I appreciate the need for an Indian GP.

[AndreaModa]

Last I heard the A1 Ring was being refurbished with Red Bull money but Mateschitz (sp?) said they'd only be running DTM on it, with no ambitions for bringing F1 back. The straights and sharp slow turns in the 1st sector would be great for some slip streaming and overtaking on the brakes though.

The concentration of tracks in the Far East, as pointed out by Watka is true, but look at the audience, future potential audience, and the technological input that many of these countries offer. LG, a Korean firm is doing all of the timing in F1 now, and we know about Japan's contribution to F1 over the years and whilst at this present time it is fairly low, it will be back before too long. I think 4 races here is sufficient, remember how many are packed into Europe, whilst we can't argue about the sport's popularity in it's homeland, some might say that it is often a bit excessive, especially with the European round often featuring a second race in a country as in Spain at the moment.

What gets me the most is the concentration in the Middle East. Someone mentioned Qatar earlier on in this post. MotoGP are going there this weekend for their annual night race. The facilities are probably more than enough for an F1 race with a nice wide and safe track. But if the same race was in the daytime, as it was when it was first introduced, it would be bland and boring. The novelty of a race in the desert would have worn off long before now, as it is now doing in Bahrain with the F1.

On that note, going back to rain at races, last year's MotoGP round at Qatar was postponed due to rain falling on the track before the race at night. The reflections from the shiny track surface made it imposibble to race around and the race was held the next evening when the track had dried out. With Singapore located where it is, I'm surprised they've got away with two dry races so far. As soon as that rain comes down and the race is postponed, expect night racing in F1 to go out of the window in the sort of knee-jerk reaction that the sport seems to harbour on any issue.

Back to the Middle East though, and whilst Abu Dhabi with it's flashy and over exuburant facilities has provided something different to Bahrain, in the end they're all the same, racing around in a load of sand. It's not even as if the area even warrants it: Europe and the Americas have their history, manufacturers and fan base, similar in the Far East but perhaps on a smaller scale. The Middle East has oil (and even then the UAE has managed to piss most of its money away) and a couple of Tilke-dromes to bring to the party, in my opinion they should have never even had invites.

[Captain Hammer]

I find it interesting that Mr. E has said he'll review Barcelona and Valencia. Both of them are under contracts that will take them through to 2015, but it seems Bernie wants twenty races in 2012. Hopefully he'll drop Valencia.

I'm also bemused at the prospect of Sochi for a Grand Prix. I know they're getting the 2014 Winter Olympics, but the resort city also happens to be on the doorstep of Abkhazia, Ossetia, Adjara, Karachay-Cherkessia, Adygea, Karabindo-Balkaria, Ingushetia, Chechnya, Dagestan, Nagorno-Karabakh and Naxcivan; in short, the entire North Caucasus, a patchwork of warring states who all have it in for Russia. Vitaly Petrov carried a black armband for the victims of the Moscow Metro bombings last week, which were carried out by suicide bombers from the region. The North Caucasus is probably the most dangerous region in the world right now. Certainly the msot dangerous that doesn't get reported in the evening news. There are places in the Caucasus Mountains that are so bad, your embassy will not send anyone after you if you get stuck - the only place in the world where this happens. And Bernie wants to put the Grand Prix there?

Moscow seems like a much safer bet.

[RAK]

So my ideal 2011 calender would look something like this:
1. Australia - Albert Park
2. Malaysia - Sepang
3. China - Shanghai
4. Spain - Catalunya
5. Monaco - Monte Carlo
6. Turkey - Istanbul Park
7. Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina
8. USA - Indianapolis
9. Canada - Montreal
10. France - Paul Ricard
11. Great Britain - Silverstone
12. Germany - Nurburgring
13. Belgium - Spa Francorchamps
14. Italy - Monza
15. Europe - Jerez
16. India - India
17. Korea - Korea
18. Japan - Suzuka
19. Brazil - Interlagos

There we go! What do we think to that then?

First of all, a very good post. I had planned on doing the same sort of thing, but I didn't feel that I was competent enough to speak on the issue in that much detail. I also think you've put together a very good set of circuits, both taking the quality of the tracks and the commercial concerns into question, and with the minimum of insipid street circuits in places where nobody wants to watch a Formula One race - I mean, based on the reputation of New Jersey, if they bring the Formula One cars there, they'll just all be robbed. (I'll allow the Americans to comment on that speculation!)

However, I'm quite worried about the quality of the racing in some of the proposed tracks; Korea and India in particular. It seems to me that their presence on the calendar is only because of the financial promise of the areas, and that the proposed tracks themselves may be dull. I haven't been able to see any elevation details for the Jaypee Group Circuit, and although it was apparently designed with overtaking in mind, there are a few corners that make me worry that it'll be a Tilkedrome in the less favourable sense of the word. That Hockenheim-alike corner at the start isn't what I'd consider promising, particularly as the same sort of corner at Hockenheim doesn't add much to the track. I'll have to see whether Tilke was just given another flat piece of land, or whether he's actually got something useful to work with.

As for Korea, it's supposed to be part-permanent, part-temporary - which reminds me all too much of Valencia. To its credit, at least there will be something more interesting to look at when we're watching the race than Valencia's uninspired design and the backdrop of industrial machinery. I'll wait and see, but I'd rather see a street circuit which isn't completely flat. Monaco seems to have it right to some extent in that regard.

Dallas, Las Vegas, Long Beach and Detroit back then please - they weren't boring! Not that many Americans noticed sadly.

Dallas wasn't boring, because the track started breaking up through the Grand Prix. Very amusing, but not exactly professional. Las Vegas got saved from total ignominy by the quality of the races in both years, but the track design was about as reminiscent of Disney's famous example of the species Mus musculus as you can get. Long Beach wasn't bad, but Clive James seemed to have it right when he suggested, "[the circuit] being somewhat reminiscent of Monaco, minus the palace, the casino, the architecture, the yachts and the close proximity to France". Detroit did work, though, although with today's financial problems in the area, I'd speculate the same thing as New Jersey - the cars are just going to get nicked.

[Phoenix]

If this is about putting a F1 calendar together, then here we go:

My calendar would have 20 scheduled races. As a matter of fact, by the way, I'd left the current points system but I'd get back the discarding system (only the best 7 results for both halfs of the season would count towards the championship).
Anyway, the races are:
1-Australian GP at Bathurst.
2-US East GP at Watkins Glen.
3-Canadian GP at Mosport.
4-US West GP at Long Beach.
5-Spanish GP at Montjuich.
6-French GP at Paul Ricard.
7-Monaco GP at Monaco.
8-Italian GP at Monza.
9-San Marino GP at Imola.
10-British GP at Brands Hatch.
11-German GP at Nurburgring Nordschleife.
12-Belgian GP at Spa-Francorchamps.
13-Austrian GP at A1.
14-Hungarian GP at Hungaroring.
15-Malaysian GP at Sepang.
16-Singapore GP at Singapore
17-Japanese GP at Suzuka.
18-Mexican GP at Hermanos Rodriguez.
19-Brazilian GP at Interlagos.
20-Argentinian GP at Óscar Gálvez.

[RejectSteve]

[I mean, based on the reputation of New Jersey, if they bring the Formula One cars there, they'll just all be robbed. (I'll allow the Americans to comment on that speculation!)

I left my car parked there for 5 hours once. It was still there when I got back to it; luck is a wonderful thing to have. However, I'm not sure what the mechanics would think about all the garbage blowing across the circuit, clogging radiator inlets and all - though it would increase the unreliability we love.

1) Albert Park, Australia
2) Sepang, Malaysia
3) Marina Bay, Singapore
4) Shanghai, China
5) Suzuka, Japan
6) Rotational Slot
7) Rotational Slot
8) Monte Carlo, Monaco
9) Jerez, Spain
10) Paul Ricard, France
11) Silverstone, Great Britain
12) Nurburgring, Germany (only the GP-Strecke)
13) Zandvoort, Netherlands
14) Hungaroring, Hungary
15) Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium
16) Monza, Italy
17) Montreal, Canada
18) Indianapolis, USA
19) Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico
20) Interlagos, Brazil

What I tried here was use circuits which (should) have Grade 1 or 1T licenses and then align them to limit travel/lag by placing all the Australasian rounds together followed by European, and finishing off with the flyaways in the Americas. You'll notice two rotational slots strategically between the Asian and European rounds. Like the WRC has, I think the 'new' races should be rotated yearly because if they're all going to be Tilkedromes, who's really going to miss them once a year to be replaced by another Tilkedrome? You can plug whichever race you want into there - Russia, Bulgaria, India, Korea, Bahrain, UAE, South Africa. Presumably one could be moved into the Americas trip if the Buenos Aires track is brought back to Grade 1.

Though I quite like the Istanbul Park circuit, the fact that absolutely nobody shows up to that event is why I've left it off. Catalunya lacks any interest, so I'd ditch that for Jerez which seems to have at least one passing zone. Zandvoort goes on because it has an interesting mix of corners and a high speed run down to Tarzanbocht which allows passing on the outside. Hermanos Rodriguez is in a large population area (MxC), a good track with plenty of runoff, and in a motoring mad nation. That's reason enough to put it on; its the anti-Istanbul - they'd be turning people away at the gates (much like Andrea Moda at Monza).

[AndreaModa]

However, I'm quite worried about the quality of the racing in some of the proposed tracks; Korea and India in particular. It seems to me that their presence on the calendar is only because of the financial promise of the areas, and that the proposed tracks themselves may be dull. I haven't been able to see any elevation details for the Jaypee Group Circuit, and although it was apparently designed with overtaking in mind, there are a few corners that make me worry that it'll be a Tilkedrome in the less favourable sense of the word. That Hockenheim-alike corner at the start isn't what I'd consider promising, particularly as the same sort of corner at Hockenheim doesn't add much to the track. I'll have to see whether Tilke was just given another flat piece of land, or whether he's actually got something useful to work with.

As for Korea, it's supposed to be part-permanent, part-temporary - which reminds me all too much of Valencia. To its credit, at least there will be something more interesting to look at when we're watching the race than Valencia's uninspired design and the backdrop of industrial machinery. I'll wait and see, but I'd rather see a street circuit which isn't completely flat. Monaco seems to have it right to some extent in that regard.

Totally agree, both could fall flat on their faces when the F1 circus finally comes round to visit, the only reason I've included them is because we obviously don't know how they're going to be, they could albeit unlikely, be absolute classics. As much as it pains me to see F1 move away from the traditional circuits that have comprised much of its history for the past 60 years, I'd like to see F1 stay in India, and to a lesser extent South Korea. The financial benefits should be enormous, let's hope they can produce the tracks to deliver it.

We can all dream up fantasy calenders that contain all the classic tracks from our childhoods that we fondly remember, but how many of those classic circuits that both RejectSteve and Phoenix have mentioned in their calenders are still in operable condition? How many meet today's impossibly strict, but entirely justified safety standards? And if they don't, how much would it cost to bring them up to standard? Then you would consider the facilities, some might moan about Interlagos, but how many of these classics are even up to the Brazilian circuit's level? Transport, parking and access to the circuit would need to be considered, something that had Donington been completed would be hopelessly inadequate, a single file country road providing the only access to the nation's Grand Prix, attracting well over 100,000 people over the weekend is totally laugable, the damn thing jams up with minor motorcycle events, and thats with them running the road as a one way system.

Then you'd have to consider who would pay for all these upgrades, most governments aren't interested anymore, take a look at the French, they don't even seem to mind that they don't even have a GP anymore! Our spineless British government couldn't give a toss whether we kept ours either. Private investors aren't interested either in this current economic climate, as proved by Donington. I keep coming back to it but what Simon Gillett tried to do is a textbook example of how difficult it is to keep a race at a classic circuit, let alone restore one to bring the race back. I'd love to see F1 go back to Imola, the A1 Ring or Zandvoort, but if we take a reality check, it isn't going to happen. That is until the whole show comes off the rails eventually and limps back to its European home when Bernie snuffs it. That will be an interesting time indeed.

[RAK]

Great topic! ... The calendar would be better if it is based on purely f1!

Errr... Yeah. Wouldn't it be just great to discuss Formula One tracks on a Formula One-related website?

[RejectSteve]

We can all dream up fantasy calenders that contain all the classic tracks from our childhoods that we fondly remember, but how many of those classic circuits that both RejectSteve and Phoenix have mentioned in their calenders are still in operable condition? How many meet today's impossibly strict, but entirely justified safety standards? And if they don't, how much would it cost to bring them up to standard? Then you would consider the facilities, some might moan about Interlagos, but how many of these classics are even up to the Brazilian circuit's level? Transport, parking and access to the circuit would need to be considered, something that had Donington been completed would be hopelessly inadequate, a single file country road providing the only access to the nation's Grand Prix, attracting well over 100,000 people over the weekend is totally laugable, the damn thing jams up with minor motorcycle events, and thats with them running the road as a one way system.

From Phoenix's list, Montjuich obviously isn't operational but the public roads are largely unchanged I think. I'm not sure what progress has been made at the A1-Ring but there hasn't been anything there since 2003, I think. The rest of the circuits we'd listed are operational [F1, TC2000, (A)LMS, VLN, V8 Supercar, etc.] although not all would make the current FIA Grade 1, err, grade. I know Zandvoort used to be 1T licensed, Jos The Boss tested there with Arrows.

While all of your points are valid, AndreaModa, I think it shows both folly and intelligence upon the FIA track inspections. I think we all agree that safety is paramount, I also think some danger has to exist. I'm not suggesting we should be back at the old days with limited spectator control, trees and hedgerows along the course, chicken wire fences, and so on but I think that if a driver does make a big mistake, (s)he should hit something eventually. The safety level of modern grand prix cars is incomparable with 1994. The tracks should be safe too but how often are cars finding the outer reaches of the runoff areas now? Not including street circuits, Montreal and Spa are probably the current F1 tracks with the least amount of runoff room right now but how often does an F1 car find the fence at Spa? Montreal is an exception in that like Albert Park, it is a temporary circuit. Looking at Spa, the Hermanos Rodriguez track has about as much runoff area. Buenos Aires, Brands Hatch, and Zandvoort have a bit less than that and Zandvoort also has limited loud weekends to consider. Watkins Glen has about as much runoff area as Zandvoort though it could probably use some more runoff or at least gravel traps in the Esses and the Outer Loop.

[PWNSNBM]

Quick question - has there ever been a "back-to-back-to-back" race weekends (3 races on 3 consecutive weekends)?
just wondering.

[mediocre]

Not that I remember at least (been watching since 2000).

[DemocalypseNow]

Quick question - has there ever been a "back-to-back-to-back" race weekends (3 races on 3 consecutive weekends)?
just wondering.

If you want stupidly cramped schedules go to NASCAR.

[mario]

We can all dream up fantasy calenders that contain all the classic tracks from our childhoods that we fondly remember, but how many of those classic circuits that both RejectSteve and Phoenix have mentioned in their calenders are still in operable condition? How many meet today's impossibly strict, but entirely justified safety standards? And if they don't, how much would it cost to bring them up to standard? Then you would consider the facilities, some might moan about Interlagos, but how many of these classics are even up to the Brazilian circuit's level? Transport, parking and access to the circuit would need to be considered, something that had Donington been completed would be hopelessly inadequate, a single file country road providing the only access to the nation's Grand Prix, attracting well over 100,000 people over the weekend is totally laugable, the damn thing jams up with minor motorcycle events, and thats with them running the road as a one way system.

From Phoenix's list, Montjuich obviously isn't operational but the public roads are largely unchanged I think. I'm not sure what progress has been made at the A1-Ring but there hasn't been anything there since 2003, I think. The rest of the circuits we'd listed are operational [F1, TC2000, (A)LMS, VLN, V8 Supercar, etc.] although not all would make the current FIA Grade 1, err, grade. I know Zandvoort used to be 1T licensed, Jos The Boss tested there with Arrows.

While all of your points are valid, AndreaModa, I think it shows both folly and intelligence upon the FIA track inspections. I think we all agree that safety is paramount, I also think some danger has to exist. I'm not suggesting we should be back at the old days with limited spectator control, trees and hedgerows along the course, chicken wire fences, and so on but I think that if a driver does make a big mistake, (s)he should hit something eventually. The safety level of modern grand prix cars is incomparable with 1994. The tracks should be safe too but how often are cars finding the outer reaches of the runoff areas now? Not including street circuits, Montreal and Spa are probably the current F1 tracks with the least amount of runoff room right now but how often does an F1 car find the fence at Spa? Montreal is an exception in that like Albert Park, it is a temporary circuit. Looking at Spa, the Hermanos Rodriguez track has about as much runoff area. Buenos Aires, Brands Hatch, and Zandvoort have a bit less than that and Zandvoort also has limited loud weekends to consider. Watkins Glen has about as much runoff area as Zandvoort though it could probably use some more runoff or at least gravel traps in the Esses and the Outer Loop.

From some photos I've seen of the A1-Ring on the F1Technical website last year, the A1-Ring is in a diabolical condition - Mateschitz has abandoned the idea of extending the track, and has effectively left it to rot. Quite a few of the grandstands which were standing are starting to collapse due to a lack of maintenance, and the track surface has broken up quite a lot in some areas, as the plant life starts to take over from where the circuit was.
As for Zandvoort, that is impossible, since there is no chance that the FIA would allow cars to race there today - the track is quite narrow and congested, and would simply be too dangerous for a fleet of modern F1 cars (for a start, where would you put a car which broke down at the side of the road?).

Watkins Glen is currently a category 2 track, so no F1 cars are allowed there, nor are the owners keen to upgrade the track, and I doubt that Hermanos Rodriguez could be upgraded sufficiently for the demands of F1 today. About the only old track which I could possibly see coming back would be Imola - the facilities have been heavily revamped, and it is known that the circuit owners are interested in getting F1 to return.

However, I'm quite worried about the quality of the racing in some of the proposed tracks; Korea and India in particular. It seems to me that their presence on the calendar is only because of the financial promise of the areas, and that the proposed tracks themselves may be dull. I haven't been able to see any elevation details for the Jaypee Group Circuit, and although it was apparently designed with overtaking in mind, there are a few corners that make me worry that it'll be a Tilkedrome in the less favourable sense of the word. That Hockenheim-alike corner at the start isn't what I'd consider promising, particularly as the same sort of corner at Hockenheim doesn't add much to the track. I'll have to see whether Tilke was just given another flat piece of land, or whether he's actually got something useful to work with.

As for Korea, it's supposed to be part-permanent, part-temporary - which reminds me all too much of Valencia. To its credit, at least there will be something more interesting to look at when we're watching the race than Valencia's uninspired design and the backdrop of industrial machinery. I'll wait and see, but I'd rather see a street circuit which isn't completely flat. Monaco seems to have it right to some extent in that regard.

Totally agree, both could fall flat on their faces when the F1 circus finally comes round to visit, the only reason I've included them is because we obviously don't know how they're going to be, they could albeit unlikely, be absolute classics. As much as it pains me to see F1 move away from the traditional circuits that have comprised much of its history for the past 60 years, I'd like to see F1 stay in India, and to a lesser extent South Korea. The financial benefits should be enormous, let's hope they can produce the tracks to deliver it.

To be fair to Tilke, there is only so much to do when given a sheet of paper with half the details already drawn in for you, such as Valencia or Singapore - and even more so when you have no elevation changes to play with (as is the case for most street circuits). The Jaypee circuit in India is a bit different - the land was flat, but they have been doing an absurd amount of ground works to give Tilke some variation in the terrain http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/04/ ... -pictures/ - a variation of 20m in total (which must have cost a fortune - moving large volumes of earth is an expensive business).

The proposed layout for Jaypee looks like this:


Now, is it just me, or can anyone else see a passing resemblance to Kyalami?

[PWNSNBM]

If you want stupidly cramped schedules go to NASCAR.

it was just a harmless question, mr podcast producer.

[PWNSNBM]

Not that I remember at least (been watching since 2000).

thanks for the honest answer - i appreciate it.

[mediocre]

Now, is it just me, or can anyone else see a passing resemblance to Kyalami?

I think this is a mix between TI Aida and Kyalami, two circuits where overtaking is nearly impossible. Geez, looking forward to the race.

[Phoenix]

From some photos I've seen of the A1-Ring on the F1Technical website last year, the A1-Ring is in a diabolical condition - Mateschitz has abandoned the idea of extending the track, and has effectively left it to rot. Quite a few of the grandstands which were standing are starting to collapse due to a lack of maintenance, and the track surface has broken up quite a lot in some areas, as the plant life starts to take over from where the circuit was.
As for Zandvoort, that is impossible, since there is no chance that the FIA would allow cars to race there today - the track is quite narrow and congested, and would simply be too dangerous for a fleet of modern F1 cars (for a start, where would you put a car which broke down at the side of the road?).

Watkins Glen is currently a category 2 track, so no F1 cars are allowed there, nor are the owners keen to upgrade the track, and I doubt that Hermanos Rodriguez could be upgraded sufficiently for the demands of F1 today. About the only old track which I could possibly see coming back would be Imola - the facilities have been heavily revamped, and it is known that the circuit owners are interested in getting F1 to return.

Of course, those are only fictions, but I thought there were plans to restore the A1-Ring for the end of this year. Or maybe the info I read was outdated, I don't know...
Shame neither Zandvoort nor Watkins Glen are in condition to host a F1 race anymore. Those were great circuits, and F1 needs more real F1 circuits, even if it compromises security a bit. I still don't see any potential risk involved in racing again in the old Nordschleife, for instance (even if it's a bit narrow). With modern technology, should be fairly safe.

[AndreaModa]

Yeah I mentioned it earlier Mateschitz is pumping some cash into the A1 Ring for DTM races to be held there. As for Zandvoort, Watkins Glen etc being narrow, check out Brands Hatch, that place was too narrow for the cars in the 80s with all the crashes at the start, significant work would have to go on there to bring it up to standard, and I doubt Jonathon Palmer would want to pump that sort of money into one of his circuits, notwithstanding the good job he's done so far rejuvenating many of Britain's national circuits.

Danger is something that is part and parcel of motor racing and I remember last season when F1 went to Suzuka that Martin Brundle said it was refreshing to have the barriers a bit closer to the track once more, bringing back the danger element. The cars are crazily safe now so tracks could probably get away with some fairly close running barriers and small run off areas, but my point about the older tracks wasn't just about safety, you have to think about the facilities and access to the track, something which won't have changed very much at any of the older circuits that have been mentioned in this topic.

Let's take a track that has tried to do exactly that - transform itself into a world class motor racing circuit: Donington used to have just a couple of temporary uncovered grandstands down the start-finish straight for the MotoGP races. International world-class motorsport was making do with that while the rest of the 100,000+ spectating audience was scrambling around in muddy quagmires and slippy banks to try and get a good vantage point, and queueing to take a piss in a line of portaloos. The letters section of MCN (motorcycle news) in the issue after a major Donington race for the MotoGP or WSB would be full of people complaining about the same old stuff. Every year. People who had gone back to their cars at 3pm not getting out of the circuit till after nightfall - 7 or 8pm. There was a catalogue of problems with the place whenever it hosted a major event, the only saving grace being the track itself, an abosolute blinder of a race circuit.

A lot of people didn't understand just how much of a challenge Donington faced to get its circuit up to F1 standards, as someone who has actually been there quite a few times and experienced everything first hand, I can tell you even if they'd had the cash, it would never have happened. The track might have looked great and the racing might have been good, but would a park and ride scheme really get a 6 figure number of people in and out of the place over the weekend? Gillett was in cloud cuckoo land!

I use this example as something to compare to these classic tracks that we'd all like to see on the calender - at some point the FIA has to draw the line on what constitutes a track meeting good enough standards to host an F1 race and whilst safety is of course considered, the environment in which the track is situated plays just as much of an important part. The challenge Donington faced to do just that was impossible - the safety of the circuit is unquestionable, there is plenty of run off everywhere, bike racing has been coming back there for years, it was simply the useless setting the track was in.

About the Indian round, Mario's given us a great image there, I'd say there's a couple of good spots for overtaking, mainly into turn 3 and after the back straight into 4, and maybe the final two corners too depending on the speeds the cars can carry through the preceding corners. I think it has potential, I guess we'll just have to hope and see.

[JeanDenisAlcatraz]

I say this on every F1 forum I go on:

Oulton Park.

The first lap run down Cascades to Shell Bend (a hairpin, for those who don't know rural Cheshire...) would be fantastic in F1, as it is every year in the F3s.

[RejectSteve]

The track might have looked great and the racing might have been good, but would a park and ride scheme really get a 6 figure number of people in and out of the place over the weekend? Gillett was in cloud cuckoo land!

Didn't they also bring everybody in on buses for the last two grands prix at Fuji? I remember the first year it was an absolute disaster but with a year's experience, it was much better the second time around. Either way, its a valid point. Some people don't want to ride in a bus to the circuit.

[dr-baker]

The track might have looked great and the racing might have been good, but would a park and ride scheme really get a 6 figure number of people in and out of the place over the weekend? Gillett was in cloud cuckoo land!

Didn't they also bring everybody in on buses for the last two grands prix at Fuji? I remember the first year it was an absolute disaster but with a year's experience, it was much better the second time around. Either way, its a valid point. Some people don't want to ride in a bus to the circuit.

Wasn't this also the arrangement for the Aida race (known as the Pacific GP) in '94 & '95? The Japanese know how to do things efficiently, even when the race-track in in the middle of nowhere as Aida was... Unlike the Brits...

[mario]

From some photos I've seen of the A1-Ring on the F1Technical website last year, the A1-Ring is in a diabolical condition - Mateschitz has abandoned the idea of extending the track, and has effectively left it to rot. Quite a few of the grandstands which were standing are starting to collapse due to a lack of maintenance, and the track surface has broken up quite a lot in some areas, as the plant life starts to take over from where the circuit was.
As for Zandvoort, that is impossible, since there is no chance that the FIA would allow cars to race there today - the track is quite narrow and congested, and would simply be too dangerous for a fleet of modern F1 cars (for a start, where would you put a car which broke down at the side of the road?).

Watkins Glen is currently a category 2 track, so no F1 cars are allowed there, nor are the owners keen to upgrade the track, and I doubt that Hermanos Rodriguez could be upgraded sufficiently for the demands of F1 today. About the only old track which I could possibly see coming back would be Imola - the facilities have been heavily revamped, and it is known that the circuit owners are interested in getting F1 to return.

Of course, those are only fictions, but I thought there were plans to restore the A1-Ring for the end of this year. Or maybe the info I read was outdated, I don't know...
Shame neither Zandvoort nor Watkins Glen are in condition to host a F1 race anymore. Those were great circuits, and F1 needs more real F1 circuits, even if it compromises security a bit. I still don't see any potential risk involved in racing again in the old Nordschleife, for instance (even if it's a bit narrow). With modern technology, should be fairly safe.

It is true that the A1-ring was supposed to be re-opening at the end of this year - however, we haven't heard anything from Mateschitz since 2008 (and as far as I'm aware, there doesn't seem to have been much progress since they tore down a number of the grandstands and pit complex a few years before that). After all, Imola has been undergoing a major revamp, and there have been a number of photos from the end of last year showing the new pits complex and some of the modifications to the track. We've seen pictures of the work at Silverstone too - yet no sight of work at the A1-Ring. I only hope that I've missed something, but things do not look good.

On another note, this has just popped up - it is a plan of the elevation changes for the circuit, along with predicted speeds into the braking zones, courtesy of Tilke.

It shows how marked the elevation changes are planned to be in some areas - there is quite a sharp rise between Turns 2 and 3, and from 14 to 15. They also suggest that the circuit should have quite a high average speed (210kph, or about 130mph), and a typical lap time of 1m27.
At least that might liven up the track a bit - after all, tracks like Bahrein and Abu Dhabi are flatter then the proverbial pancake (apart from that bump in Turn 6 at Bahrein).

Actually, on that note, just before Melbourne, Mclaren explained to a Times journalist why the set up was so badly botched at Bahrein. They sent out their technicians to survey the track with a laser scanner during the off season, to assess the new section of the track. Now, at the time, the circuit was covered in sand, so when they measured a large bump in Turn 6, they assumed that it was a large lump of sand which had accumulated there, and thus discounted it from their predicted set up. As a result, when they sent Hamilton out during the first practise session, he got quite a shock when he hit that bump and nearly lost control of the car as the floor hit the bump - and as a result, Mclaren had to badly compromise the car set up.

The track might have looked great and the racing might have been good, but would a park and ride scheme really get a 6 figure number of people in and out of the place over the weekend? Gillett was in cloud cuckoo land!

Didn't they also bring everybody in on buses for the last two grands prix at Fuji? I remember the first year it was an absolute disaster but with a year's experience, it was much better the second time around. Either way, its a valid point. Some people don't want to ride in a bus to the circuit.

Wasn't this also the arrangement for the Aida race (known as the Pacific GP) in '94 & '95? The Japanese know how to do things efficiently, even when the race-track in in the middle of nowhere as Aida was... Unlike the Brits...

Yes and no - although it was very effective there, for some tracks it breaks down. As I pointed out earlier, at Motegi, they have the same problem as Donnington (only two narrow roads leading into the circuit). As a result, at Motegi, the circuit can seat 100,000, but in reality they are limited to 65,000, because that is the maximum number of people the infrastructure can cope with.

[Captain Hammer]

It shows how marked the elevation changes are planned to be in some areas - there is quite a sharp rise between Turns 2 and 3, and from 14 to 15.

Be careful - the image notes that the elevation is exaggerated.

[Jordan192]

Be careful - the image notes that the elevation is exaggerated.

Yeah, I'd like to see an equivalent projection for somewhere like spa (or even istanbul) for a comparison.

[AndreaModa]

But either way, at least the thing isn't as flat as a pancake, any elevation change is a good thing in my opinion.

[mario]

It shows how marked the elevation changes are planned to be in some areas - there is quite a sharp rise between Turns 2 and 3, and from 14 to 15.

Be careful - the image notes that the elevation is exaggerated.

True, the changes in elevation have been scaled up, but even allowing for that, there is still a marked difference in elevation between those corners. Even if there is only a moderate amount of elevation change, at least we have some change in elevation, compared to most of the modern Tilke circuits, which are sited in utterly flat areas.
That is not to say that elevation changes alone will make for a great circuit - even some of the classic tracks, like Monza, or Silverstone, have pretty much no elevation change, but have other redeeming features (Silverstone has the variability in the weather, and the first sector, where the cars are mightily impressive through those opening corners, whilst Monza has the sheer speed and (traditionally) the slipstreaming). However, it is more likely to create passing opportunities, by making it more challenging for the drivers (and thus potentially creating places where a driver can be pressured into a mistake).