New York GP in Jersey City

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 04 May 2010, 19:29

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83312

I'm personally all for this, especially since the track would be an hour and a half from my house.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 May 2010, 19:44

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 04 May 2010, 20:09

tristan1117 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83312

I'm personally all for this, because the track would be an hour and a half from my house.

Really.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 May 2010, 20:10

I like the idea of the New York GP being in New Jersey...

tristan, this being one of the most densely populated areas in the world, and with the American democratic tradition of protesting when you don't like things (much stronger there, it seems, than here in Europe), what do you personally reckon are the chances F1 makes it there, considering the noise, etc?

watka · Post by **watka** » 04 May 2010, 20:15

Calling it the Jersey GP will be confusing for us Brits; I didn't know they'd be able to do a GP in St Helier.

Seriously though, the track looks as though it will be a street circuit in a Melbourne/Montreal fashion, rather than a Singapore/Monaco fashion, which can only be a good thing.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 May 2010, 20:33

I quite like the idea of a track going through a park in New York - or Jersey City, as the case may be. While the sketch doesn't look too bad, the track could stand to lose one of those 180-degree left, 180-degree right, 90-degree left bits; I'm looking at the middle one in particular. Apart from that, however, it looks pretty good.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 04 May 2010, 20:33

watka wrote:Calling it the Jersey GP will be confusing for us Brits; I didn't know they'd be able to do a GP in St Helier.

Seriously though, the track looks as though it will be a street circuit in a Melbourne/Montreal fashion, rather than a Singapore/Monaco fashion, which can only be a good thing.

There's the noise, then there's this about New Jersey:

Enter Chris Christie, the new Republican governor, as quietly and unobtrusively as a SWAT team. In January he was sworn in. In February he declared a fiscal emergency and plugged a short-term budget hole with cuts that “will hurt”. Public-sector benefits are way out of line, he complained, giving the example of a 49-year-old retiree who will get $3.8m in pension and health benefits despite having paid only $124,000 towards them. “Is that fair?” he asked. In March he proposed a balanced budget for fiscal 2011, describing in gory detail how he would slash a third from projected outlays. Every department will be squeezed. Benefits will be trimmed. Every school district will lose up to 5% of its budget. Mr Christie suggested that teachers’ pay should be frozen (rather than raised by 4-5%) and that they should contribute 1.5% of their salaries towards their health benefits (up from zero).

But then again, because I study economics, I suffer of "Failure of foresight": Economists seem always to greet proposals for change by explaining smugly that there are good and potent reasons why things are exactly as they are.

theshoo · Post by **theshoo** » 04 May 2010, 22:16

Anonymous sources say the circuit will feature a series of S-Curves called "The Sopranos" a "Jimmy Hoffa" Chicane and a sharp hair-pin dubbed the "Whats-A-Matta-U"...
developing story....

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 May 2010, 00:38

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I quite like the idea of a track going through a park in New York - or Jersey City, as the case may be. While the sketch doesn't look too bad, the track could stand to lose one of those 180-degree left, 180-degree right, 90-degree left bits; I'm looking at the middle one in particular. Apart from that, however, it looks pretty good.

Actually, the proposal contains two possible routes: one pink, the other purple. And if the purple proposal was put through, the FIA wuld have something to say about the bottom corners because they're too close together. There's no room for run-off, and even if it were a street circuit, sections of the track would only be separated by armco. A crash there would compromise the safety of the entire section.

But it seems it may not be happening. It's been reported that the mayor of Jersey City has asked that the proposal be dropped. It seemed the Friends of Liberty State Park (read: NIMBYs) have put pressure on him to veto it.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 05 May 2010, 01:25

Ha. Like there aren't enough track already to stage a GP...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 05 May 2010, 01:41

Are you sure this whole New Jersey Grand Prix wasn't pulled from The Onion?

TeamTipper · Post by **TeamTipper** » 05 May 2010, 02:35

I'm Againest it fully. America don't like Formula One much and the track is another typical F1 track. Its :evil:

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 May 2010, 03:12

lostpin wrote:Ha. Like there aren't enough track already to stage a GP...

Actually, Indianapolis is the only Category-1 circuit in the country. Barber Motorsports Park is a Category-1T since USF1 got permission to test there.

TeamTipper wrote:the track is another typical F1 track. Its

Again, the image shos two possible routes: the pink and the purple. Does the pink one look like a "typical" crcuit?

coops · Post by **coops** » 05 May 2010, 06:46

They could get Bon Jovi to open the circuit.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 05 May 2010, 06:56

coops wrote:They could get Bon Jovi to open the circuit.

The track is slippery when wet.

coops · Post by **coops** » 05 May 2010, 07:01

<Groan>

That post was like bad medecine.

TeamTipper · Post by **TeamTipper** » 05 May 2010, 07:36

Any track liked by berine is a typical F1 boring track to me...........

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 May 2010, 08:10

Captain Hammer wrote:But it seems it may not be happening. It's been reported that the mayor of Jersey City has asked that the proposal be dropped. It seemed the Friends of Liberty State Park (read: NIMBYs) have put pressure on him to veto it.

Took them long enough. Most of the times, the movement is organized and the banners done BEFORE the idea.

Lux Interior · Post by **Lux Interior** » 05 May 2010, 08:41

Youse guyz just don't know what a race in Joizey means. Fuggetaboutit. :mrgreen:

coops · Post by **coops** » 05 May 2010, 09:02

Lux Interior wrote:Youse guyz just don't know what a race in Joizey means. Fuggetaboutit.

Best. Members Name. Ever.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 May 2010, 09:17

CarlosFerreira wrote:Took them long enough. Most of the times, the movement is organized and the banners done BEFORE the idea.

They've existed for a long time. Their objections seem to have more to do with the organisers not consulting them to begin with more than anything else. They seem to think they're the authority on the park and that nothing can happen without their prior approval. Anyone who doesn't go through them gets their idea shot down without a second glance.

TeamTipper wrote:Any track liked by berine is a typical F1 boring track to me...........

So if Bernie said he liked Spa, Silverstone, Monaco, Monza and Interlagos ... what would your reaction be?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 May 2010, 09:23

Captain Hammer wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:Took them long enough. Most of the times, the movement is organized and the banners done BEFORE the idea.

They've existed for a long time. Their objections seem to have more to do with the organisers not consulting them to begin with more than anything else. They seem to think they're the authority on the park and that nothing can happen without their prior approval. Anyone who doesn't go through them gets their idea shot down without a second glance.

My comment on the matter was of a general nature. We have been moving from NIMBY to BANANA: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything. To be absolutely honest, and possibly starting a fuss as well, I couldn't agree more. I am a motorsports fan, but if anyone had the stupid idea of coming up with a race anywhere near my place, I'd be fuming - with tracks everywhere, why not refurbish one of them to make it F1-standard instead?

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 05 May 2010, 11:26

To be honest, I would rather have an F1 race at a much better track like Long Beach or Laguna Seca. There are many more great tracks that F1 can go to in America. Also, if I had a F1 track next to my house I might be annoyed too. As we saw at Spa last year, people complaining can shut down a circuit.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 May 2010, 11:44

tristan1117 wrote:To be honest, I would rather have an F1 race at a much better track like Long Beach or Laguna Seca. There are many more great tracks that F1 can go to in America. Also, if I had a F1 track next to my house I might be annoyed too. As we saw at Spa last year, people complaining can shut down a circuit.

To quote a well-loved expression, "Bingo! Somebody give that man a beer!".

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 05 May 2010, 11:51

CarlosFerreira wrote:
tristan1117 wrote:To be honest, I would rather have an F1 race at a much better track like Long Beach or Laguna Seca. There are many more great tracks that F1 can go to in America. Also, if I had a F1 track next to my house I might be annoyed too. As we saw at Spa last year, people complaining can shut down a circuit.

To quote a well-loved expression, "Bingo! Somebody give that man a beer!".

Make that two.

There's a similar situation at Monza as well isn't there?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 May 2010, 11:53

Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
tristan1117 wrote:To be honest, I would rather have an F1 race at a much better track like Long Beach or Laguna Seca. There are many more great tracks that F1 can go to in America. Also, if I had a F1 track next to my house I might be annoyed too. As we saw at Spa last year, people complaining can shut down a circuit.

To quote a well-loved expression, "Bingo! Somebody give that man a beer!".

Make that two.

There's a similar situation at Monza as well isn't there?

Yup. I think Monza - which is in the middle of a natural park, has been struggling against complaints for quite some time. Here's a spanner in the works: it's actually nice to hold the race in Monza, because the park helps block the din!

Tealy · Post by **Tealy** » 05 May 2010, 13:48

CarlosFerreira wrote:Yup. I think Monza - which is in the middle of a natural park, has been struggling against complaints for quite some time. Here's a spanner in the works: it's actually nice to hold the race in Monza, because the park helps block the din!

I wouldn't have a problem living near an existing race track but I would be annoyed if one was built after I moved into an area. I personally don't sympathise with the complainers at Spa, Monza or Brands Hatch but I do sympathise with this group objecting to a new track in their local park.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 05 May 2010, 14:07

Shortest ever Grand Prix proposal:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83332

The Jersey GP is down the gurgler already!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 May 2010, 14:15

eytl wrote:The Jersey GP is down the gurgler already!

The Mayor of New Jersey wins the award for Reject for Life after losing his wad after less than a day. It seems he axed the project after speaking to the Friends of Liberty State Park - a bunch of NIMBYs if ever there was one - who seem to have opposed the porject simply because they weren't consulted on it first.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 05 May 2010, 16:06

I know in the NFL the two New York teams have shared a stadium in Noo Joizey for the last few decades, its not uncommon for that to happen an to have a race where the Sopranos are isn't a bad thing. I must say though to cut government budgets and then hold an F1 race after making working people redundant really isn't on, especially seeing as F1 in America has largely been a failure and often a farce.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 05 May 2010, 16:18

Captain Hammer wrote:The Mayor of New Jersey wins the award for Reject for Life after losing his wad after less than a day. It seems he axed the project after speaking to the Friends of Liberty State Park - a bunch of NIMBYs if ever there was one - who seem to have opposed the porject simply because they weren't consulted on it first.

Second time you've said that on the thread. You do seem convinced this is simply a bunch of people throwing a tantrum because they weren't consulted before the idea being leaked to the press. In fact, mate, if they had ever been consulted before, the thing would never have reached the press at all; have a look at link form The Economist I quoted above.
I believe the idea was vented on the papers and the Internet before consultation in a misguided attempt to create a wave of enthusiasm before everyone saw how silly it really was - and it didn't.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 May 2010, 22:48

Going by F1 Fanatic, the plans were released because the NIMBYs forced it to happen. Approval for a Grand Prix would have to happen at the state level, not the local. The propoal itself is pretty limited and really looks quite amateur, which leads me to blieve that it's still in draft form, and if given the chance, the organisers would never have released it this week.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 05 May 2010, 23:10

Bloody NIMBYs...if they start messing with Spa or Monza again I'm going to start my own anti-NIMBY protest. Who wants to join me?!

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 06 May 2010, 04:37

kostas22 wrote:Bloody NIMBYs...if they start messing with Spa or Monza again I'm going to start my own anti-NIMBY protest. Who wants to join me?!

I'm there, dude.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 May 2010, 08:07

Captain Hammer wrote:Going by F1 Fanatic, the plans were released because the NIMBYs forced it to happen. Approval for a Grand Prix would have to happen at the state level, not the local. The propoal itself is pretty limited and really looks quite amateur, which leads me to blieve that it's still in draft form, and if given the chance, the organisers would never have released it this week.

What, the head honchos somewhere in an office decide there will be a GP and the people on the ground don't even get a look in? Huh...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 May 2010, 09:11

CarlosFerreira wrote:What, the head honchos somewhere in an office decide there will be a GP and the people on the ground don't even get a look in? Huh...

No, I mean the organisers put together their proposal and then pitch it to interest groups. It's better to have a full-formed idea than a half-baked one. Instead of saying "Okay, we want to have a Grand Prix here", they can say "Okay, we want to have a Grand Prix here - and here's why we think it's a good idea and what the actual prject would look like". The proposal could then be refined based on input from said interest groups. The problem is that the NIMBYs forced the organisers' hand and had it launched early. Reading through it, it's pretty obvious that the plan is incomplete. If anything, it's an introduction to a wider paper on the subject.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 06 May 2010, 09:25

Although there is justice in your perspective, you keep mentioning NIMBYs. It's a city! And an American one to boot! It's not a question of a small pressure group taking action and spoiling it for everybody, it's the fact that a silly project has just hit an immovable object, aka REALITY. Do you reckon you can close a few streets in downtown New Jersey on a Friday (pop density: 6,195.2 people/km2) without locals rioting and setting Bernie, the mayor and the respective entourages on fire? It's not Monte Carlo, with its long tradition of being a history-bent tax haven out there.

Seriously, come on.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 06 May 2010, 10:28

It's not like closing the roads in Liberty State Park would inconvenience everyone. The park is actually somewhat isolated from the rest of the city. The only things that would be closed would be a) the park itself, b) access to Liberty Science Centre and c) access to Eillis Island. No artierial roads, no businesses and no residential areas would be blocked off.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 May 2010, 09:19

Now another race track near Manhatten wants to host a race - the Monticello Motor Club, 90 minutes from Manhattan. The Monticello venue is 4.1 miles long, and features 22 corners.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83748

Is this going to go the same way as the New Jersey GP? At least it's not running through someone's back yard this time, or parkland...

EDIT: Just found their website and they have a picture of a JPS Lotus being driven by Mario Andretti! http://monticellomotorclub.com/track/circuit/

FURTHER EDIT: This race track is a private members' club - isn't this what Aida in Japan is as well?

Also found the story on another website: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100520/F1/100529970

Post by **mario** » 21 May 2010, 10:59

dr-baker wrote:Now another race track near Manhatten wants to host a race - the Monticello Motor Club, 90 minutes from Manhattan. The Monticello venue is 4.1 miles long, and features 22 corners.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83748

Is this going to go the same way as the New Jersey GP? At least it's not running through someone's back yard this time, or parkland...

EDIT: Just found their website and they have a picture of a JPS Lotus being driven by Mario Andretti! http://monticellomotorclub.com/track/circuit/

FURTHER EDIT: This race track is a private members' club - isn't this what Aida in Japan is as well?

Also found the story on another website: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100520/F1/100529970

It is an interesting concept, but I'm not that hopeful of this attempt either. There is a big problem, which is the fact that there is relatively little infrastructure in terms of hotels, transport and everything else needed for those who want to go to the race itself.
The point is, there is a strong push from the teams to have a race in the US - at the moment, with only Canada on the list, it is not economically viable (the teams are expecting to make a loss on the Canadian GP because the cost of a single long haul race out to Canada and back outweighs the the revenue from the race itself). Unfortunately, although there are quite a few circuits in the US, either they are too far from supporting facilities, or they are simply unsuitable for F1 in terms of safety. I'm sure that eventually there will be a US GP, but I am not sure that this will be it.