Your Reject of the Race - Monaco

[rffp]

I never said Barrichello was a good driver. He is crap, but Button is being heralded as the best driver on the grid an even compared to M. Schumacher due to his early season dominance.

Well, please enlighten us so we can find out who is not crap in current F-1?

Did Ross Brawn really wake up one day and say: "I am going to start my team with two crappy drivers! And I will not give a chance to overachievers such as Kovalainen, Nakajima, Piquet Jr, Bourdais and Fisichella."
Would one of those 4 drivers be leading the 2009 Drivers WC if they were driving Brawn? Would Brawn GP have a good technical evolution if Rubens was not in their car?

Would, in 2008, De La Rosa for instance win the DWC if he was to be in Hamilton's place? Sure, Hill was the less talented World Champion that I saw, but he was competent. He had a good car and drove to his potential to win the 96 season, but he proved to be not mediocre as he showed for instance in the 1994 Brazilian GP. As for Mansell, well, he was not genius like Prost or Senna, but after watching the 1987 British GP and the 1989 Hungarian GP, I cannot agree that he lacked talent.

But you have a point. There are drivers that accomplish nothing in a bad car. Button in 2008 was an underachiever in a dog of a car, for that he won the ROTY Title. But that does not make him a talentless driver. The BGP001 may be a fantastic car, but can you picture it Giovanna Amati or Deletraz winning race after race with it? Honestly, I cannot.

[DonTirri]

I never said Barrichello was a good driver. He is crap, but Button is being heralded as the best driver on the grid an even compared to M. Schumacher due to his early season dominance.

Well, please enlighten us so we can find out who is not crap in current F-1?

I'd say three drivers. Vettel, Alonso, Räikkönen. This is the weakest grid talentwise I've seen during the 15 years ive watched formula one.

Did Ross Brawn really wake up one day and say: "I am going to start my team with two crappy drivers! And I will not give a chance to overachievers such as Kovalainen, Nakajima, Piquet Jr, Bourdais and Fisichella."
Would one of those 4 drivers be leading the 2009 Drivers WC if they were driving Brawn? Would Brawn GP have a good technical evolution if Rubens was not in their car?

Nope. Ross Brawn woke up one day and said "i'm gonna take Honda's car that has been developed for over two years, give it to two mediocre yet experienced drivers and reap the glory that woulda been Hondas."

Also, out of the five you named, Kovalainen probably could have done what Jenson is doing in a Brawn, as he is a quick driver unfortunately stuck in a team where he is number two no matter how you look at it. As far as Nakajima, Piquet, Fisico and Bourdais go, they wouldn't be leading the championship even if they were driving an 92 Williams agains a field of Andrea Modas.

Would, in 2008, De La Rosa for instance win the DWC if he was to be in Hamilton's place? Sure, Hill was the less talented World Champion that I saw, but he was competent. He had a good car and drove to his potential to win the 96 season, but he proved to be not mediocre as he showed for instance in the 1994 Brazilian GP. As for Mansell, well, he was not genius like Prost or Senna, but after watching the 1987 British GP and the 1989 Hungarian GP, I cannot agree that he lacked talent.[/quote[7quote]

No, but Alonso, Räikkönen and even Sutil would have if they had his car and his treatment at Macca. And in 94 Williams was if not the best due ot Benetton's cheating but second best, and remember: He needed Schumi to miss three races to be able to catch him in the DWC. Also, the 1987 Williams was THE car to have, with the 89 Ferrari being second best and one race does not a great driver make. In conclusion, talent they don't lack, but they are miles away from the greatness they are heralded of

But you have a point. There are drivers that accomplish nothing in a bad car. Button in 2008 was an underachiever in a dog of a car, for that he won the ROTY Title. But that does not make him a talentless driver. The BGP001 may be a fantastic car, but can you picture it Giovanna Amati or Deletraz winning race after race with it? Honestly, I cannot.

Nope, But button is not the awesome driver people herald him as. that is my point.

[Captain Hammer]

Then why did Ross Brawn say he regretted not considering or suggesting Button as a driver during his time with Ferrari before the Brawn had even taken to the circuit for shakedown? Being who he is and knowing his history as Formula One's resident tactical genius, he doesn't strike me as the type who would say something like that lightly.

[rffp]

No, but Alonso, Räikkönen and even Sutil would have if they had his car and his treatment at Macca.

Careful! I know a lot of drivers that showed promise and raw talent so that there was always someone saying: "He will be a world champion in the right car."
Ivan Capelli was one of those drivers, and although the 1992 Ferrari was a dog, he was a near disaster there. he was a driver that let aspects of his personal life to influence his performance. Sutil deserves a better car, but it is one thing to have a potential, it is a complete different thing to deliver that potential. Oppurtunity yields nothing if not followed by determination and competence.

And in 94 Williams was if not the best due ot Benetton's cheating but second best, and remember: He needed Schumi to miss three races to be able to catch him in the DWC.

Agreed, I was in Interlagos and watched him being lapped by Schummy. A huge embarassment for Williams.

[Popi_Larrauri]

I never said Barrichello was a good driver. He is crap, but Button is being heralded as the best driver on the grid an even compared to M. Schumacher due to his early season dominance.

Well, please enlighten us so we can find out who is not crap in current F-1?

I'd say three drivers. Vettel, Alonso, Räikkönen. This is the weakest grid talentwise I've seen during the 15 years ive watched formula one.

Did Ross Brawn really wake up one day and say: "I am going to start my team with two crappy drivers! And I will not give a chance to overachievers such as Kovalainen, Nakajima, Piquet Jr, Bourdais and Fisichella."
Would one of those 4 drivers be leading the 2009 Drivers WC if they were driving Brawn? Would Brawn GP have a good technical evolution if Rubens was not in their car?

Nope. Ross Brawn woke up one day and said "i'm gonna take Honda's car that has been developed for over two years, give it to two mediocre yet experienced drivers and reap the glory that woulda been Hondas."

Also, out of the five you named, Kovalainen probably could have done what Jenson is doing in a Brawn, as he is a quick driver unfortunately stuck in a team where he is number two no matter how you look at it. As far as Nakajima, Piquet, Fisico and Bourdais go, they wouldn't be leading the championship even if they were driving an 92 Williams agains a field of Andrea Modas.

Would, in 2008, De La Rosa for instance win the DWC if he was to be in Hamilton's place? Sure, Hill was the less talented World Champion that I saw, but he was competent. He had a good car and drove to his potential to win the 96 season, but he proved to be not mediocre as he showed for instance in the 1994 Brazilian GP. As for Mansell, well, he was not genius like Prost or Senna, but after watching the 1987 British GP and the 1989 Hungarian GP, I cannot agree that he lacked talent.[/quote[7quote]

No, but Alonso, Räikkönen and even Sutil would have if they had his car and his treatment at Macca. And in 94 Williams was if not the best due ot Benetton's cheating but second best, and remember: He needed Schumi to miss three races to be able to catch him in the DWC. Also, the 1987 Williams was THE car to have, with the 89 Ferrari being second best and one race does not a great driver make. In conclusion, talent they don't lack, but they are miles away from the greatness they are heralded of

But you have a point. There are drivers that accomplish nothing in a bad car. Button in 2008 was an underachiever in a dog of a car, for that he won the ROTY Title. But that does not make him a talentless driver. The BGP001 may be a fantastic car, but can you picture it Giovanna Amati or Deletraz winning race after race with it? Honestly, I cannot.

Nope, But button is not the awesome driver people herald him as. that is my point.

IMHO, I think you both are exagerating things a bit, but are essentially right. For instance, if Button where the mediocre driver Don says, there would have been at least some driver errors proper to drivers pressured to do exactly what is expected to be donde with the best car on the grid (spinning, crashes, excessive tyre consumption due to overdriving, broken nosecones in stupid overtaking maneuvers, suden lost on lap times without expalanations, stallings, slow starts, stupid entrances and exits from boxes, etc) that had not happen to button, at all, being on the best car on the grid. From the WCs you name, Hill at least had a couple of spinning out in previous laps (for instance, at least, I remember a Monza or Spa start), Villeneuve (in non championship years) had some silly spin-outs, Hamilton, due to being too young, AND in championship year, had an enormous rate of mistakes. Raikkonnen seemed to be attached to every ridiculous accident last year (Ferrari involved or not).

More cases on: Fisichella in the best Renault ever (that gave Alonso his first championship) started winning and had all on his hand to lead, but then silly mistakes appeared all over (the car was still amazing), and he quickly fall in the second driver by own merit category. (and really, Fisi made MIRACLES with poor cars).

But Button is far from being the best driver on the grid. Is showing experience and maturity being on the right moment on the right time (to no one expectations, I may add) and it's capitalizing everything he finds in order to prepare to the time when big teams are supposed to grab rithm to chase him. He won't be an unforgettable champion (the car,indeed, will be aunforgettable, as Ross Brawn will surely do). Lets remember that Button and Barrichello, had almost no testing at all... even if the chassis had two years of developtment, that's a massive disadvantage.

But i still attached to the idea that there are better drivers on the grid. Alonso is one, I don't like Raikkonnen at alll, but Vettel will be unstopable in, let's say, one year or two. In fact I think the RBR are really overrated. Webber and Vettel are making them better than they really are. Kubica, despite last results, its a hell of a driver too.

Let's there be peace.

[thehemogoblin]

Bridgestone's super-soft compound: it looked like swiss cheese after only a couple of laps.

[noisebox]

The Monaco marshals for being so damn efficient at moving bent cars. A safety car or two would really have livened up that race...

[Alianora La Canta]

I'd nominate Max Mosley for continuing to shove an ill-thought-out budget cap down everyone's throats, but that's not really Monaco-specific...

I'm going for Buemi. Using another car as a braking point is bad enough. Using the extremely erratic Piquet Jr. as a braking point, at a circuit where precision, consistency and concentration are everything, is just plain silly. The fact that Buemi has demonstrated that he's better than this simply underlines the appropriateness of the Reject of the Race label.

[hclw]

Buemi saved Piquet from himself. Piquet should be grateful.

If Buemi hadn't have shunted Nelsoninho into the barriers, then the hapless Renault driver would have shunted himself into the barriers later in the race. I think he would have done a nakajima and lost it on the last lap, perhaps even on the last corner. I have a vision of Rascasse being covered in a fine layer of yellow and red carbon fibre, 4 lonely wheels bouncing aimlessly around, Piquet standing by the wreckage shaking his head, Briatore wildly gesticulating as he watches on the screens, marshalls furiously flag waving.

It was a bad race for almost all the vulnerable f1 drivers, wasn't it. Kovalainen smashes his car into pieces, Piquet shunted off and Nakajima sliding off at Mirabeau in a rubbish impression of Happy Hamilton. Only Bourdais produced a decent performance.

Reject of the race: as much as I don't like jumping on the laugh-at-Hamilton bandwagon (he's a great driver and a great whinger - just like my beloved Nigel Mansell), he is my nomination. He talked up the race beforehand as his best opportunity for a win. Then he blew it by pushing too hard in the first qualifying session. Very funny

[nit]

hmmmm for me the reject of the race has to be either BMW pathetic again and Toyota from locking out the front row 2 races ago to locking out the back row more less two races later, shocking!!!

[Popi_Larrauri]

I'd nominate Max Mosley for continuing to shove an ill-thought-out budget cap down everyone's throats, but that's not really Monaco-specific...

I'm going for Buemi. Using another car as a braking point is bad enough. Using the extremely erratic Piquet Jr. as a braking point, at a circuit where precision, consistency and concentration are everything, is just plain silly. The fact that Buemi has demonstrated that he's better than this simply underlines the appropriateness of the Reject of the Race label.

Respectfully, I have to disagree. When you have a car ahead, you got no other option except taking it as the referece for a braking point. Even if it's Piquet Jr, Solid Matter it´s still untrespassable.

[watka]

There are so many options for reject of the race, Jamie and Enoch are going to have a lot of fun!

In 3rd place for me are BMW Sauber, another pathetic show of speed, and another Kubica retirement.
In 2nd place, I choose Toyota. How they managed to qualify in 19th and 20th I don't know. Going from the front to the back in qualifying in 2 races is pretty damn extreme, and was hard to keep them off my top reject spot.

In 1st place though, I choose the McLaren drivers. They entered the race weekend thinking they could get a podium, and the car was certainly better suited to Monaco, even if a podium was a bit ambitious. But for both drivers, who should really have enough experience by now, to ruin to team's chances by both stuffing it into the wall (Lewis on Saturday, Heikki on Sunday) is amateur. You don't get a McLaren drive if you're crap, or if you do, you are out my the end of the season. I don't expect that from Hamilton or Kovalainen.


As for Vettel and Buemi, they both have excuses. Vettel's tyres were completely stuffed and I don't think anyone could have kept it out of the wall. I think it was pretty unexpected that the Red Bull would wear the super soft so much, so it's not really his fault. For Buemi, this is his first time at Monaco with F1, so I guess it's forgivable. So many rookies have crashed at Monaco, its completely different to other tracks. If he had the same experience as Hamilton and Kovalainen though, it wouldn't be acceptable.

[RejectSteve]

Vettel's tyres were completely stuffed and I don't think anyone could have kept it out of the wall. I think it was pretty unexpected that the Red Bull would wear the super soft so much, so it's not really his fault.

Didn't Vettel change tyres prior to shunting the car at Ste. Devote? Sure, the idea is still there that he was forced to push hard to recover lost ground, but isn't that driver error then?

[sailer 99]

Since this is f1 rejects I think sutil is the best driver becuase he can still race in a crap car

[LionZoo]

Probably McLaren since they've had a horrible season and the last thing they needed to do was talk themselves up. Of course after having done that both drivers took turns stuffing their cars into the wall.

[FW08]

I think naming the two McLaren drivers as the rejects of this race is unfair to the drivers. It is a well known fact that the MP4-24 lacks grip and is difficult to drive. Also the drivers are under a great pressure to get results. Usually this combination of pressures and poor handling leads to the armco in Monaco.

A crash in Monaco of all places is usually not enough to justify a ROTR title, so my nominees are either the Fall and Decline of the Toyota or the mansellian post-race commentary of Piquet.

[nit]

it anyone notice the very very very very evil smile by barichello right at the start of the post race??? he looked like an bond super villain

[tc3j3r]

My RotR has to be Toyota - front row lockout to back row lockout in 2 races? That has to be a record.

[watka]

I think naming the two McLaren drivers as the rejects of this race is unfair to the drivers. It is a well known fact that the MP4-24 lacks grip and is difficult to drive. Also the drivers are under a great pressure to get results. Usually this combination of pressures and poor handling leads to the armco in Monaco.

The thing is, I don't remember either of the drivers complaining about the car at Monaco, whereas they have done at pretty much every other race this year.

[Salamander]

I think naming the two McLaren drivers as the rejects of this race is unfair to the drivers. It is a well known fact that the MP4-24 lacks grip and is difficult to drive. Also the drivers are under a great pressure to get results. Usually this combination of pressures and poor handling leads to the armco in Monaco.

The thing is, I don't remember either of the drivers complaining about the car at Monaco, whereas they have done at pretty much every other race this year.

That plus, as pointed out a few times already, they have been talking themsleves up all weekend. They must've been expecting to do very well at Monaco.

[FW08]

The thing is, I don't remember either of the drivers complaining about the car at Monaco, whereas they have done at pretty much every other race this year.

Heikki did, as usual, in the interviews he gave in Finnish. He has, just as Kimi and the tow Mikas before him, always been a bit more direct with the Finnish reporters than he is with the international press. That being said, he did admit that poor handling is no excuse and he should've been able to control the car even when it started to slide.

[CarlosFerreira]

I know I'm a week late (sorry, exam-time). I have a few nominations to make:

- BMW - another blow up? AND slow to boot?
- Hamilton - he's very fast, but he's always that flawed performer. He looks like me playing a car simulator on the computer, always trying too hard when the material doesn't help
- Vettel - severe brain fade.
- Toyota - not for the poor performance, but for showing how down that made them.

Overall, I'd vote for BMW and Toyota.

[jackanderton]

One of the good things about seeing a lot of the front runners at the back of the grid this season is it gives you even more point of reference as to how good they are in comparison to the usual suspects at the back.

With that in mind, Kubica has seemed especially crap. A mixture of disinterest at being near the back and just complete discomfort with the setup of the car. Heidfeld's used to a bit of scrapping from earlier in his career (I honestly though at various points in his career he'd be out of F1 for good) and seems a much better character for the fight BMW are going to have to show for the rest of the year.