Your Reject of the Race - Turkey!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 30 May 2010, 13:35

Yeah, Vettel has this one packed.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 May 2010, 13:37

Have to look at the incident, but consensus suggests more Vettel's fault than Webber's - so he's probably going to get ROTR.

Which is a real pity, because my tip, Williams had a fairly rejectworthy afternoon. 14th and 17th with the only cars to finish the race behind the Hulk being the two virgins.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 13:40

Enforcer wrote:Have to look at the incident, but consensus suggests more Vettel's fault than Webber's - so he's probably going to get ROTR.

Which is a real pity, because my tip, Williams had a fairly rejectworthy afternoon. 14th and 17th with the only cars to finish the race behind the Hulk being the two virgins.

You've been fanning that the whole weekend, didn't know you were that competitive in the F1 Rejects League. :lol:

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 May 2010, 13:42

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Enforcer wrote:Have to look at the incident, but consensus suggests more Vettel's fault than Webber's - so he's probably going to get ROTR.

Which is a real pity, because my tip, Williams had a fairly rejectworthy afternoon. 14th and 17th with the only cars to finish the race behind the Hulk being the two virgins.

You've been fanning that the whole weekend, didn't know you were that competitive in the F1 Rejects League.

I'm very competitive.

If I were an F1 driver, everyone would hate me, and I'd have about a dozen 'DQs' to my name.

If Williams had been solid over the weekend I wouldn't be bringing it up though.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 30 May 2010, 13:45

Vettel: For obvious reasons.
Alonso: Missed Q3, had a miserable race and cut Petrov's tyre in the process.
Williams: Can we give them RoTY now? Please?

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 30 May 2010, 13:50

Vettel, for obvious reasons
Lotus, for simultaneous hydraulic failures
Williams, for being very slow
Kobayashis race engineer, for not telling him Buemi was a lap behind him
Alonso, for his qualy performance, and then not being very quick or agressive in the race

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 30 May 2010, 13:51

I'm going to say either Vettel for the obvious, or Lotus for a chink in their ability as best newcomers this season.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 30 May 2010, 13:55

Sebastian Vettel: Enough said.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 30 May 2010, 13:57

The Bronze goes to...
Sebastien Buemi
Just plain slow. Picked up a puncture from the off and never recovered from it.

Silver is awarded to...
Williams
Stayed still for the entire race - without retirements they may even have finished lower than they qualified. Woeful performace once again.

But the gold medal for complete dumbassery (if there is such a word)...
Sebastian Vettel
Seriously, why the bathplug did he turn in on his own team-mate!?
Expect him to be shipped off to Ferrari next year for such a blatant indescretion. I hope he rots in hell for that.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:00

kostas22 wrote:But the gold medal for complete dumbassery (if there is such a word)...
Sebastian Vettel
Seriously, why the bathplug did he turn in on his own team-mate!?
Expect him to be shipped off to Ferrari next year for such a blatant indescretion. I hope he rots in hell for that.

That's a bit harsh isn't it? It might have been a misjudgment, but it's not the first time someone has misjudged a pass.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 30 May 2010, 14:00

Vettel, no doubt!

And special prize for alonso. Only passed sutil/kobayashi in pit stop period and takes petrov out.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 30 May 2010, 14:01

Well it's a no-brainer this time: Vettel
ROTY: Nicole Bathplugger. Enough of her already.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 14:03

muttley wrote:ROTY: Nicole Bathplugger. Enough of her already.

I must protest. A couple of races ago, we were treated to the butt-cheeks of one of the Williams' mechanics. More Nicole, less mechanic's butt-cheeks, thanks you very much.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 30 May 2010, 14:05

Is there a minimum butt-cheek quota that must be filled?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 14:06

LukeB wrote:Is there a minimum butt-cheek quota that must be filled?

Hopefully not.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 30 May 2010, 14:08

CarlosFerreira wrote:I must protest. A couple of races ago, we were treated to the butt-cheeks of one of the Williams' mechanics. More Nicole, less mechanic's butt-cheeks, thanks you very much.

Agreed.
Then, ROTY: male chauvinism in motorsports, which doesn't allow female mechanics in see-through overalls!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:08

The publicocrap coming from the Red Bull camp about how it's Webber's fault is now giving Vettel driving into Webber a run for the money as ROTR.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 30 May 2010, 14:10

muttley wrote:Then, ROTY: male chauvinism in motorsports, which doesn't allow female mechanics in see-through overalls!

I disagree. ROTY: female mechanics for not being there and not wearing see-through overalls

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:13

Klon wrote:
muttley wrote:Then, ROTY: male chauvinism in motorsports, which doesn't allow female mechanics in see-through overalls!

I disagree. ROTY: female mechanics for not being there and not wearing see-through overalls

ROTY: Bernie for not realizing sex sells.

"Fox became a hardcore sex channel so gradually I didn't even notice."

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 14:13

LionZoo wrote:The publicocrap coming from the Red Bull camp about how it's Webber's fault is now giving Vettel driving into Webber a run for the money as ROTR.

"And the reading's off the scale, ladies and gentlemen!"

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 May 2010, 14:14

It has to be Vettel. You'd have to be extremely optimistic to try and make a move on Webber, given that he left just about the width of a Red Bull to the inside, and to his credit, he got alongside and edged ahead. Then, he turned into his teammate, who was holding his line. I can't think of anybody who has ever made such a monumentally moronic move in any form of motorsports. Not even Nelson Piquet Jr. was stupid enough to make that kind of move on somebody who was right next to him, and therefore had no reaction time at all to any moves.

Honorary mentions to anyone who even slightly blames Webber. He held his line and did nothing wrong apart from letting Vettel alongside in the first place.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 May 2010, 14:18

3: Kostas22 for hoping Vettel rots in hell (!)
2: Alonso for general rubbishness.
1. Vettel, obviously.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 30 May 2010, 14:19

I didn't watch the race, but I just saw the accident on YouTube. Bad, Vettel. Bad :evil:

I hope he gets a heavy reprimand for it.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 30 May 2010, 14:22

I don't know what you're all complaining about, there are plenty of asses in F1. Most of them seem to be in the Red Bull garage.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 May 2010, 14:23

I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

My Reject of the Race is Fernando Alonso. After being told Petrov would crack under pressure, he then spent the next twenty laps on the Renault's rear wing. When he finally got through, he destroyed Petrov's weekend.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:23

I have to be honest; considering Hamilton and Button banged wheels, the two Evil English drivers were really THIS close to outdoing Vettel for ROTR. Of course after that incident, McLaren told Button to save fuel and tires. Even though they were telling Hamilton that earlier as well, I'm just going to stand up and say that was code for "Let's not pull a Red Bull here."

When you have one front running driver pretty much guarantee himself ROTR and another front running team almost snatching ROTR from under him after said first incident, plus you throw in Kobayashi scoring a point, you have to say it was a great day for F1Rejects forum.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 14:25

Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

To be absolutely fair, that sounds about half fair. I say half because Button and Hamilton first, then Sutil and one of the Toro Rossos managed to pull passes in the same place later in the race without crashing.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 May 2010, 14:25

LionZoo wrote:I have to be honest; considering Hamilton and Button banged wheels, the two Evil English drivers were really THIS close to outdoing Vettel for ROTR. Of course after that incident, McLaren told Button to save fuel and tires. Even though they were telling Hamilton that earlier as well, I'm just going to stand up and say that was code for "Let's not pull a Red Bull here."

When you have one front running driver pretty much guarantee himself ROTR and another front running team almost snatching ROTR from under him after said first incident, plus you throw in Kobayashi scoring a point, you have to say it was a great day for F1Rejects forum.

Why evil?

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:25

Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

My Reject of the Race is Fernando Alonso. After being told Petrov would crack under pressure, he then spent the next twenty laps on the Renault's rear wing. When he finally got through, he destroyed Petrov's weekend.

You really should change your username to The Contarian. I don't think I've seen you agree with the consensus even once.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 May 2010, 14:28

LionZoo wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

My Reject of the Race is Fernando Alonso. After being told Petrov would crack under pressure, he then spent the next twenty laps on the Renault's rear wing. When he finally got through, he destroyed Petrov's weekend.

You really should change your username to The Contarian. I don't think I've seen you agree with the consensus even once.

Haha, I thought it was just me who noticed that! I think it's a poor excuse to say that the drivers couldn't see each other, otherwise every passing move would end in a collision. Even if you can't exactly see the car, you should still be able to work out approximately where it should be from your relative speed and distances.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 30 May 2010, 14:30

fjackdaw wrote:
LionZoo wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

My Reject of the Race is Fernando Alonso. After being told Petrov would crack under pressure, he then spent the next twenty laps on the Renault's rear wing. When he finally got through, he destroyed Petrov's weekend.

You really should change your username to The Contarian. I don't think I've seen you agree with the consensus even once.

Haha, I thought it was just me who noticed that! I think it's a poor excuse to say that the drivers couldn't see each other, otherwise every passing move would end in a collision. Even if you can't exactly see the car, you should still be able to work out approximately where it should be from your relative speed and distances.

That's one of the things we all love about Captain Hammer, he doesn't do Groupthink and always speaks his mind. Learn to appreciate!

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:31

fjackdaw wrote:
LionZoo wrote:I have to be honest; considering Hamilton and Button banged wheels, the two Evil English drivers were really THIS close to outdoing Vettel for ROTR. Of course after that incident, McLaren told Button to save fuel and tires. Even though they were telling Hamilton that earlier as well, I'm just going to stand up and say that was code for "Let's not pull a Red Bull here."

When you have one front running driver pretty much guarantee himself ROTR and another front running team almost snatching ROTR from under him after said first incident, plus you throw in Kobayashi scoring a point, you have to say it was a great day for F1Rejects forum.

Why evil?

Well, it's my own little nickname for the team. McLaren is the team I dislike the most. Hamilton is the driver I dislike the most, and Button is probably number two on that list. See, the only real F1 press I can read is in English, and that tends to be just a bit nationalistic and biased towards the English teams and drivers. That, plus the fact that I'm an Arsenal FC fan, has meant I've developed a bit of a dislike for the English tabloid press in particular and English nationalism in general. There I tend to cheer against anything English and McLaren right now is as English as you can get.

Having said that, I'm seriously thinking about getting a Lotus Elise as my next car, so you can see it only extends so far.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 30 May 2010, 14:32

CarlosFerreira wrote:To be absolutely fair, that sounds about half fair. I say half because Button and Hamilton first, then Sutil and one of the Toro Rossos managed to pull passes in the same place later in the race without crashing.

Well, it's very easy to fall into the fallacy that the drivers can see the same as we do. The truth is, they can't. We can see their front wings; they can't. And when Vettel and Webber are side-by-side at the fastest point on the circuit and zeroing in on the on opportune passing point and unable to see their front wings or each other, you can understand why it's folly to lay the blame solely at one person. I think Eddie Jordan put it best: Vettel's error, but not Vettel's falt.

CarlosFerreira wrote:That's one of the things we all love about Captain Hammer, he doesn't do Groupthink and always speaks his mind. Learn to appreciate!

Finally, someone else who knows what Groupthink is!

But don't think for a moment that this will make me go easier on you in the avatar challenge. Nico Hulkenberg still sucks, and you're still going to be worshipping the Morons.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 May 2010, 14:33

Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

You may have a point about the blind spots, but Vettel could not have possibly thought that he would have cleared Webber by that point - he wasn't that much faster. Keeping in mind all he really had to do was stay on the inside, turning to the right, knowing that Webber did not give him plenty of room in the first place, was extremely reckless of him, at least in my view.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 May 2010, 14:34

CarlosFerreira wrote:That's one of the things we all love about Captain Hammer, he doesn't do Groupthink and always speaks his mind. Learn to appreciate!

It's more fun ribbing on my part than anything. As the no. 1 (and first) Kobayashi fan on this forum, I like to give him a hard time!

Nonetheless, I am getting the impression that some of this isn't so much speaking his mind as trying really hard to go against the group. Not that I have anything against that; I was quite like that many years ago.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 May 2010, 14:34

LionZoo wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:
LionZoo wrote:I have to be honest; considering Hamilton and Button banged wheels, the two Evil English drivers were really THIS close to outdoing Vettel for ROTR. Of course after that incident, McLaren told Button to save fuel and tires. Even though they were telling Hamilton that earlier as well, I'm just going to stand up and say that was code for "Let's not pull a Red Bull here."

When you have one front running driver pretty much guarantee himself ROTR and another front running team almost snatching ROTR from under him after said first incident, plus you throw in Kobayashi scoring a point, you have to say it was a great day for F1Rejects forum.

Why evil?

Well, it's my own little nickname for the team. McLaren is the team I dislike the most. Hamilton is the driver I dislike the most, and Button is probably number two on that list. See, the only real F1 press I can read is in English, and that tends to be just a bit nationalistic and biased towards the English teams and drivers. That, plus the fact that I'm an Arsenal FC fan, has meant I've developed a bit of a dislike for the English tabloid press in particular and English nationalism in general. There I tend to cheer against anything English and McLaren right now is as English as you can get.

Having said that, I'm seriously thinking about getting a Lotus Elise as my next car, so you can see it only extends so far.

I can understand being against Hamilton, cos he's a proven cheat and a bit of a bad sport, but Button seems very nice and can't help being English! And I say this coming from a Scots family.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 30 May 2010, 14:34

Lotus made the initial case retiring both cars simultaneously, but Vettel wasn't having any of that.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 30 May 2010, 14:36

Captain Hammer wrote:Finally, someone else who knows what Groupthink is!

Being automatically contrary is just another form a groupthink, and holding the same opinion as other people isn't necessarily groupthink!

watka · Post by **watka** » 30 May 2010, 14:37

Right, I think we all know who the winner is, but I'll go through my formal process anyway.

Lotus - This is probably just a blip, a one-off, but Lotus reliability slipped this weekend. In my opinion, they've made good progress in terms of speed, but they need to keep their eye on the ball, because the other new teams and Sauber seem to be finding their feet on the reliability side.

Nico Rosberg - Harsh perhaps, because he finished just a second behind Schumacher, but the tables seem to have turned on him. It seems that he is the team #2 now, and the car is not quite to his liking, as displayed by the train of cars he held up today. However, he needs to be a bit less diplomatic about things and offer the team some decent feedback on the car. It seems that he is happy to settle for second best at times, and maybe he just doesn't have that ruthless streak to get his first GP win.

McLaren pit stops - Inconsequential to the final result, but I could have cost Hamilton the race win. I think it was clear to see that Hamilton was faster than Webber and setting a lap in clear air would have let him jump Webber, but instead they brought him in with the risk and having to wait to release him safely. Even if the stop went smoothly, it would have been unlikely that Hamilton would get ahead without some kind of steward's investigation into the pit stop release. Button coming in a few laps later, and gaining a couple of seconds on Vettel showed what should have been done.

Williams - Their lack of pace continues to astonish me. It's almost reminiscent of Honda in 2007 & 2008 in that there just seems to be no cure for it, and that the car seems slow on almost any circuit that needs even a little aerodynamic grip.

Vitantonio Liuzzi - Same old, same old for Tonio. As people have mentioned, Sutil wasn't particularly impressive this weekend, but he still had the comfortable beating of Liuzzi. The Force India is better than 18th place on the grid.

Fernando Alonso - Poor weekend for Alonso, he really didn't get the car set up properly at all. 12th place on the grid, and made it up to 8th, which was reasonable but still a little lacklustre. He doesn't seem to be driving the team forward in quite the way we all suspected, despite once claiming he gave McLaren a half a second advantage in 2007 over everyone else because of his development abilities.

But the obvious winner is:
Sebastian Vettel, but not for the obvious reason - Breaking F1 rule #1, don't crush into your team-mate, is inexcusable (hence partly why I thought Ralf Schumacher was a terrible driver). I think the incident itself though was more marginal than people have made it out to be. I apportion absolutely no blame to Webber, but Vettel had enough room such that it was possible to pass cleanly, but any small loss of control would send him into the side of Webber. I would wager that at least part of the contribution to the accident was Vettel driving on the dirty side of track, so close to the white line, that any misjudgement would be critical.

Anyway, the more important thing in the long term, is that this weekend was the first time we've seen someone really get inside Vettel's head. He's under pressure, he doesn't like it, and he seems to have no way of dealing with it. In the same way as Massa is perhaps, Vettel appears to be a confidence driver, who needs to be out in front to be totally comfortable. He's obviously got bucketloads of talent, but I can't visualise him cutting his way through the field in the same way we've seen Hamilton, Raikkonen, Schumacher, Hakkinen etc have done in the past. Webber bossing the team has really put him outside his comfort zone.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 30 May 2010, 14:37

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I disagree with the notion that Vettel was responsible. Consider this: a driver cannot see his front wing. Nor can he really see either side of him. I very much think it was a case of both drivers being in the other's blind spot.

You may have a point about the blind spots, but Vettel could not have possibly thought that he would have cleared Webber by that point - he wasn't that much faster. Keeping in mind all he really had to do was stay on the inside, turning to the right, knowing that Webber did not give him plenty of room in the first place, was extremely reckless of him, at least in my view.

Correct. Vettel's been an F1 driver long enough to know that, imo.