Your Reject of the Race - Turkey!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 31 May 2010, 09:47

CarlosFerreira begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting wrote:- Mark really was slower on that lap. Throughout the race we would see the Red Bulls take turn 8 flat on 6th, engaging 7th at the exit. The inboard replay shows Webber slots it into 7th after coming out of Turn 9.

There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2010, 09:49

Wizzie wrote:
CarlosFerreira begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting wrote:- Mark really was slower on that lap. Throughout the race we would see the Red Bulls take turn 8 flat on 6th, engaging 7th at the exit. The inboard replay shows Webber slots it into 7th after coming out of Turn 9.

There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

Oh, know. I just figured that would give an indication of how much slower Webber was in that particular lap.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 31 May 2010, 10:01

Captain Hammer wrote: Didn't you see Button's pass on Hamilton at the same corner ten laps later?

Bad example, Button went round the outside of 12, held level and then got ahaead when they switched back to the right. He also did Schumacher round the outside there early on.

Khausen Effect · Post by **Khausen Effect** » 31 May 2010, 10:09

I think Vettel obviously deserves ROTR for throwing away a likely win by moving into the path of Webber but...

... Vettel's move was not uncommon in modern F1. In the last few years we've seen lots of drivers once they're inside and have their noses ahead jink across the track to a greater or lesser extent to move closer to the ideal line and to intimidate their rival. Vettel just did it when the other car was too close to be able to react in time.

But just because it's commonplace doesn't make it right. Accidents like this are bound to happen from time to time if drivers continue to drive at other cars to intimidate them, and not respect the idea of giving 'racing room' to a rival.

I dare say that Christian Horner blames Vettel, but wishes Webber hadn't squeezed his team-mate to the point that the cars were almost touching.

coops · Post by **coops** » 31 May 2010, 10:38

Khausen Effect wrote:I dare say that Christian Horner blames Vettel, but wishes Webber hadn't squeezed his team-mate to the point that the cars were almost touching.

The BBC report that Horner has put the blame on Webber. Which surprised me.

James Hunt · Post by **James Hunt** » 31 May 2010, 11:17

Hi there

This is my first posting on the forum, so here goes.

Can I suggest Jonathan Legard as ROTR for Turkey? As he is meant to be a professional, I thought his commentary was extremely poor. He kept banging on about how this would be McLaren's 1st victory at the Turkish GP, but is he not forgetting a certain K*** R******** ( as we're not meant to be mentioning his name this year lol!) won here in the 1st Turkish GP back in '05? He also made countless other errors during the weekend. He isn't as bad as James Allen mind you, but surely we can get someone a little better than him to partner Brundle.

That said, he does come out and give Kamui his support when Brundle rubbishes him.

My nomination for ROTR: Jonathan Legard

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2010, 11:27

James Hunt wrote:Hi there

This is my first posting on the forum, so here goes.

Can I suggest Jonathan Legard as ROTR for Turkey? As he is meant to be a professional, I thought his commentary was extremely poor. He kept banging on about how this would be McLaren's 1st victory at the Turkish GP, but is he not forgetting a certain K*** R******** ( as we're not meant to be mentioning his name this year lol!) won here in the 1st Turkish GP back in '05? He also made countless other errors during the weekend. He isn't as bad as James Allen mind you, but surely we can get someone a little better than him to partner Brundle.

That said, he does come out and give Kamui his support when Brundle rubbishes him.

My nomination for ROTR: Jonathan Legard

I'm OK with Leggard, but prefer David Croft, on 5 Live. Much more interesting and on the ball. On a related topic, was it me or was Brundle sounding rather under the weather this weekend?

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 31 May 2010, 11:48

CarlosFerreira wrote:
I'm OK with Leggard, but prefer David Croft, on 5 Live. Much more interesting and on the ball. On a related topic, was it me or was Brundle sounding rather under the weather this weekend?

Well, You'd be under the weather too if you'd HAVE to listen to legard every other weekend...

James Hunt · Post by **James Hunt** » 31 May 2010, 11:57

CarlosFerreira wrote:
James Hunt wrote:Hi there

This is my first posting on the forum, so here goes.

Can I suggest Jonathan Legard as ROTR for Turkey? As he is meant to be a professional, I thought his commentary was extremely poor. He kept banging on about how this would be McLaren's 1st victory at the Turkish GP, but is he not forgetting a certain K*** R******** ( as we're not meant to be mentioning his name this year lol!) won here in the 1st Turkish GP back in '05? He also made countless other errors during the weekend. He isn't as bad as James Allen mind you, but surely we can get someone a little better than him to partner Brundle.

That said, he does come out and give Kamui his support when Brundle rubbishes him.

My nomination for ROTR: Jonathan Legard

I'm OK with Leggard, but prefer David Croft, on 5 Live. Much more interesting and on the ball. On a related topic, was it me or was Brundle sounding rather under the weather this weekend?

Yeh I would much prefer Crofty alongside Brundle, he seems to have a genuine enthusiasm for it whereas I find Legard can be 'putting it on' slightly.

As for Brundle, I didn't notice anything too unusual about him. I can't help thinking he is fed up of commentating alongside Legard. Sorry if this sounds like an 'attack Legard rant', it isn't meant to be entirely, just thought he was particularly reject worthy this time. I think back to the way Brundle was almost snapping back at Legard at the final race of last season in Abu Dhabi, and thats why I think Brundle always sounds a bit off these days.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2010, 12:48

DonTirri wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
I'm OK with Leggard, but prefer David Croft, on 5 Live. Much more interesting and on the ball. On a related topic, was it me or was Brundle sounding rather under the weather this weekend?

Well, You'd be under the weather too if you'd HAVE to listen to legard every other weekend...

Do you get the BBC commentary back there in Finland? Anyway, we've just proved, once more, the veracity of Hughes' Law.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 31 May 2010, 13:01

CarlosFerreira wrote:
DonTirri wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
I'm OK with Leggard, but prefer David Croft, on 5 Live. Much more interesting and on the ball. On a related topic, was it me or was Brundle sounding rather under the weather this weekend?

Well, You'd be under the weather too if you'd HAVE to listen to legard every other weekend...

Do you get the BBC commentary back there in Finland? Anyway, we've just proved, once more, the veracity of Hughes' Law.

No, but I've watched my share of BBC broadcast via a proxy and a BBC Stream.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2010, 13:06

DonTirri wrote:No, but I've watched my share of BBC broadcast via a proxy and a BBC Stream.

Just curious, really. I didn't use to get it back in Portugal.

Back in reality, McLaren has decided to take employ the good old mind games and make the most out Red Bull's crackpot internal organization.

"Both our drivers are very, very sensible," said Goss. "They both handled themselves particularly well on the circuit and with the media.

"We employ them to be aggressive racing drivers. They like to fight; they are both world champions and out to prove they're the best. But the way they have handled themselves on the circuit has been absolutely exceptional so far this year.

"There has been more than one occasion when they have been close to one another like that, and the two of them can race and avoid each other - unlike our next-door neighbours [Red Bull Racing] who clearly threw an easy one-two away."

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 31 May 2010, 14:53

I was going to nominate Vettel (surprise surprise) but with the post-race aftermath it seems that the Vettel-loving Red Bull Racing team might have clinched it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84052

What's this all about? On an equal vein, both Martin Brundle and Andrew Benson's blogs on the BBC website touch on the matter too.

Oh yeah we don't favour either driver but we'll happily go and cuddle Vettel after blatantly causing the crash like he's a little school kid who's been bullied, and then go and firmly put the blame on Webber?!

Pure madness and double standards. What was that Webber was saying after the Monaco GP about how Red Bull used to be the laughing stock of the pit lane but aren't anymore? Sadly I think they very much still are.

And another sad point is that their driver leading the WDC is probably not even going to be with the team next year. Red Bull will go from having a solid, dependable driver line-up to having a suspect talent in Vettel who can't handle pressure and a young kid like Algersuari as a clear number two ruining their career in the process. Poor old Mark, may well win the WDC after all, but where is he going to after that?

Red Bull are my reject of the race, and at this rate, are my reject of the year. It's going to take something pretty big to change my opinion.

coops · Post by **coops** » 31 May 2010, 14:57

AndreaModa wrote:Red Bull will go from having a solid, dependable driver line-up to having a suspect talent in Vettel who can't handle pressure and a young kid like Algersuari as a clear number two ruining their career in the process.

Or Kimi Raikkonen.

captainhappy · Post by **captainhappy** » 31 May 2010, 16:10

I must nominate here an ANTI REJECT OF THE RACE (I wish there was a standard category for this at F1Rejects listenership land)

Thank you for driving like you are trying to win the bathplugging WDC, Mark Webber. It was simply good race craft, Vettel panicked well before the breaking zone.

Screw you red bull, and your Vettel luv in.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 31 May 2010, 16:17

captainhappy wrote:I must nominate here an ANTI REJECT OF THE RACE (I wish there was a standard category for this at F1Rejects listenership land)

We do have the IID - and it's a democratic process to boot...

watka · Post by **watka** » 31 May 2010, 21:50

Captain Hammer wrote:
pablo_h wrote:Why did vettel shove his car on the left hand side of webber onto the dirty side of the track in the first place?

Um, because if you watch pretty much any pass in any form of motorsport, you'll see that taking the inside line into a corner is the best way to fight for a position. Didn't you see Button's pass on Hamilton at the same corner ten laps later? Didn't you see Hamilton having a go at Webber or reclaiming the lead from Button? They always go down the inside because it's a shorter distance around the corner to take the inside line. If you take it and you hold it, you can bloc the other guy from hitting the apex, thus forcing him to take a longr way around. The only time when you can cleanly pass anywhere but down the inside is what you have a car fast enough to drive clean around the other guy. And since Vettel and Webber have the exact same car, that's not going to happen.

Exception to the rule: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAOFRz22 ... re=related

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 31 May 2010, 22:29

I'm nominating Ferrari, disappointing weekend, not in the top 3 teams. Even Renault were faster during the race. 5th best team is unacceptable for them. All on their 800th race.

chrismcn · Post by **chrismcn** » 31 May 2010, 22:56

Alonso on Petrov lap 54 was a fairly ROTR worthy incident. As were McLaren for giving team orders then pretending they didn't and Red Bull for giving team orders then pretending they didn't. But thats all motor racing.

My ROTR (and maybe I'm not talking this seriously enough) is the TV coverage. Yet again it was quite pedestrian with very little coverage of the field. Now I'd be the first to say we had a good race to watch but there is a whole field of 24 cars out there and we know have the coverage and broadcast facilities to handle multi media platforms.

Bernie has been quick to demand better facilities and bigger motor homes over the years but we have been waiting for HD for quite a while now.

Okay I've thought it through Vettle your are a twit but Red Bull are my ROTR for chucking it away again

mediocre · Post by **mediocre** » 01 Jun 2010, 14:54

Wizzie wrote:
There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

I've never seen an advertisement banner THAT well placed.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 01 Jun 2010, 16:51

mediocre wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

I've never seen an advertisement banner THAT well placed.

Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

Jordan192 · Post by **Jordan192** » 01 Jun 2010, 17:03

Bleu wrote:
mediocre wrote:
Wizzie wrote:There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

I've never seen an advertisement banner THAT well placed.

Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

Also, let's not forget the cheerful "Bienvenue au Quebec" on the Wall of Champions at Montreal.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 01 Jun 2010, 17:39

Bleu wrote:Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 01 Jun 2010, 17:41

Bleu wrote:
mediocre wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
There's the reason why if it is to be believed.

I've never seen an advertisement banner THAT well placed.

Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

It's somewhere in the Caption This topic, if you want to dig.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 01 Jun 2010, 18:09

Nuppiz wrote:
Bleu wrote:Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

What a find! Best add ever.

watka · Post by **watka** » 01 Jun 2010, 18:24

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:
Bleu wrote:Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

What a find! Best add ever.

Someone needs to take that on as their avatar.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 01 Jun 2010, 20:23

watka wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:
Bleu wrote:Can't find it now, but there was a photo of de Cesaris (not 100% sure) who crashed into tyre wall at Zandvoort and there was Michelin advert just next to it - Michelin man was running (away from the crash scene) in it.

What a find! Best add ever.

Someone needs to take that on as their avatar.

If somebody sizes it, I'll finally take on an avatar, unless somebody else calls it.

On the tyres side, I recently picked up a used car (Ford Focus SE wagon) which had a Firestone guide in the documents while the car itself had Goodyears. I'm just glad it isn't shod with French rubber - they would have to add chicanes for me on the motorway.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 01 Jun 2010, 20:45

RejectSteve wrote:
watka wrote:
CarlosFerreira wrote:What a find! Best add ever.

Someone needs to take that on as their avatar.

If somebody sizes it, I'll finally take on an avatar, unless somebody else calls it.

On the tyres side, I recently picked up a used car (Ford Focus SE wagon) which had a Firestone guide in the documents while the car itself had Goodyears. I'm just glad it isn't shod with French rubber - they would have to add chicanes for me on the motorway.

I'm calling it.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 01 Jun 2010, 21:07

Enoch was right to wait before nominating ROTR.

So now I nominate Dr Helmut Marko. (Who I'd never heard of before Sunday. And who I suspect may soon not be heard of again.)

He is of course the Red Bull senior who immediately slagged off Webber after the race. But today Horner has come out and said,

"Ultimately we win as a team and we lose as a team and on Sunday we lost as a team, as a result of our two drivers having an incident," said Horner. "Having looked at all the information it's clear that it was a racing accident that shouldn't have happened between two team mates.

"After looking at all the facts that weren't available immediately after the race, Dr. Marko also fully shares this view."

I imagine the new facts that came to light were the rapid fall in Red Bull sales in all of the non-German speaking world. :lol:

chrismcn · Post by **chrismcn** » 01 Jun 2010, 23:42

Is Christian's saying his ROTR is Red Bull?

chrismcn · Post by **chrismcn** » 01 Jun 2010, 23:42

Is Christian's saying his ROTR is Red Bull?

bighaydo · Post by **bighaydo** » 02 Jun 2010, 02:41

My ROTR initially have been Vettel, although Helmut Marko has now taken the cake with his one-eyed view (whuh-oh!) on the incident between the Red Bull cars.

Either that or Di Grassi... the first man to be legitimately out-qualified by one of the HRT cars!

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 02 Jun 2010, 03:29

can i nominate that horrible spambot of last week as ROTR?

coops · Post by **coops** » 02 Jun 2010, 06:39

bighaydo wrote:although Helmut Marko has now taken the cake!

Yeah, who the frig is he? He appears to have alot of clout in RBR based on who knows what. (I'll wikipedia it afterwards)

EDIT - I found him and it turns out he is an F1 REJECT!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Jun 2010, 08:13

coops wrote:
bighaydo wrote:although Helmut Marko has now taken the cake!

Yeah, who the frig is he? He appears to have alot of clout in RBR based on who knows what. (I'll wikipedia it afterwards)

EDIT - I found him and it turns out he is an F1 REJECT!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko

And a former winner of the 24 Hours of Le Mans to boot.
I demand that he'll be the next driver profile on the website :mrgreen:

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 02 Jun 2010, 08:23

coops wrote:
bighaydo wrote:although Helmut Marko has now taken the cake!

Yeah, who the frig is he? He appears to have alot of clout in RBR based on who knows what. (I'll wikipedia it afterwards)

EDIT - I found him and it turns out he is an F1 REJECT!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko

Then he must be REJECT OF THE RACE !!!!!

( Conspiracy theorists stand up. Maybe Helmut was so offended at being ignored by this site that he instructed Vettel to take Webber off. He knew this would catch Enoch's attention. Then all he had to do was shoot his mouth off, knowing that Enoch would be compelled to create a rejects profile for him as soon as possible. )

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 02 Jun 2010, 08:50

coops wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko

Looks in F1 a helmet was the end of Helmut...

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 02 Jun 2010, 09:16

Wizzie wrote:I demand that he'll be the next driver profile on the website

I think the unwritten policy of the site is to exclude drivers whose career was cut short by an accident -- which is reasonable, because they didn't have the possibility to prove they weren't rejects.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 02 Jun 2010, 09:38

coops wrote:
bighaydo wrote:although Helmut Marko has now taken the cake!

Yeah, who the frig is he? He appears to have alot of clout in RBR based on who knows what. (I'll wikipedia it afterwards)

EDIT - I found him and it turns out he is an F1 REJECT!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko

He's the austrian guy of RBR.
Started of as a manager for drivers after his crash.

He's in charge of the drivers and runs the talent scout and sponsorships, getting drivers like Vettel and others in the RBR program.

He was in charge of buying jaguar F1 from ford for Red Bull.
He's always disliked coultard and webber because when red bull took over jaguar and Helmut sacked the management, hired horner, newey and some of his coworkers, helmut also wanted to choose the drivers from the drivers in his program and who he managed, but he didn't get to do that.

He wanted his drivers from his program driving for the new red Bull F1. Instead he got stuck with Coultard (who he eventually forced out for one of his drivers - Vettel), but is still stuck with Webber (edit: of course who they hired a couple of years after Red bull started, because the earlier team mates to coultard were bad and their engine sucked so they wanted renault engines and I think hiring webber helped them get that (flavio?).

I can imagine he wants webber out so one of his other boys gets a seat.
Webbers only grace is mateshitz wants it to be successful and make money, so won't take only of Helmuts drivers, they have to be fast and potential winners, besides that though, Helmut is red bull's man on the ground for their F1 team and calls the shots, and reports directly to mateshitz.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Jun 2010, 09:43

muttley wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I demand that he'll be the next driver profile on the website

I think the unwritten policy of the site is to exclude drivers whose career was cut short by an accident -- which is reasonable, because they didn't have the possibility to prove they weren't rejects.

I know that unwritten policy applies to reject drivers that were killed while racing (e.g Paletti or Ratzenberger) but I'm not sure if it extends to career ending injuries.