Villeneuve Racing

[Captain Hammer]

Huh, ever heard of this chap called Jenson Button?

Have you been watching at all this season? Button has proven that his 2009 success was not simply a case of being in the right place at the right time.

Lawyered.

[CarlosFerreira]

Huh, ever heard of this chap called Jenson Button?

Have you been watching at all this season? Button has proven that his 2009 success was not simply a case of being in the right place at the right time.

Lawyered.

He was WDC last year. He previously received 2 ROTY awards.

Fact.

[eagleash]

Huh, ever heard of this chap called Jenson Button?

Have you been watching at all this season? Button has proven that his 2009 success was not simply a case of being in the right place at the right time.

Lawyered.

He was WDC last year. He previously received 2 ROTY awards.

Fact.

Has Jenson actually ever fulfilled the "official" criteria to be a Reject, or was it just his apparent innate ability for under achievement?

Has JV, come to that?

[kowalski]

He was WDC last year. He previously received 2 ROTY awards.

Fact.

Has Jenson actually ever fulfilled the "official" criteria to be a Reject, or was it just his apparent innate ability for under achievement?

Has JV, come to that?

Of course not, Both are WORLD CHAMPIONS.

- It's simply a case of picking your 'least worthy champion'...

Take your picks from a few classics:

Mansell - Easiest car to win in ever? Easiest championship - handed to him... (this would be my choice)

JV / Hill / Button - All managed to end up in the best car in the grid with a second rate co-driver and walked into the championship.

Hamilton - #1 driver in the best team on the grid without ever having to 'work his way up'

etc... etc...



Button was particularly average in a couple of season though - people like Fisi & Ralf showing him the way at various times...

[CarlosFerreira]

Has Jenson actually ever fulfilled the "official" criteria to be a Reject, or was it just his apparent innate ability for under achievement?

I think the official criteria for ROTY is consistent under-achievement. I suppose everyone always knew he was brilliant, and could perform with the best, but just threw the towel whenever things didn't go his way.

As for Villeneuve, I don't think he ever did ROTY, no.

[watka]

Argubly Fangio's WC in 1956 as Collins handed his car over to him half way through the final race when Collins was on course for the WC.

My point: You could go on about who the worst WC is, but in truth, they all made the best of the circumstances they were in.

[shinji]

Some of the comments on a YouTube video I made in December 2008 where I said JV was the 'Worst Champion':

"How can they put Jaques? in that category? Because they talk out their ass!"

"How can you put Jaques Villeneuve in this catagory? Maybe attitude declined? his ability in later years but he was a fantastic first year champ... "

"Do you in fact? know anything about anything? No"

"Ok Villeneuve only one championship the once but he did ok with the car he was given in the seasons after."

"OMG JV s good you? dont know much about formula 1 "

"JV achieved a lot more than u? ever did, so shut the f*** up"

"jacques had 11 wins in 2 good years with Williams(99 the engine stunk). lewis hamilton will be the worst driver to win a championship, only unlike jacques, he's not dumb enough to leave a top team to prove me right."

"Precisely....Villeneuve managed much more than some other world champions, and proved to be? blindingly quick too "

"Jacques Villeneuve? are you joking, give him a fast car, hes? as good as hamilton, masa and the rest "

"Jacques Villeneuve? ? I see that you do not understand nothing of f1 "

"The only reason Jacques Villeneuve was not very good on the Honda team was because Honda couldn't make a good F1 car if there life depended on it. They had by far, some of the worst F1? cars."

"i? dont agree with villeneuve he is a really good driver just made a terrible choice by signing with BAR instead of ferrari "

"why the f*** is villeneuve on there. If i remember rightly he nearly won his first ever GP in melbourne. His engine had an oil leak and hill took the win..The next year he? was champion....Think you twat !"

"One of the worst vid i see on Youtube. really,? you are nothing to make"

"haha are you? stupid?? why is villeneuve bad??"

"villeneuve? u are a real idiot , dude he's one o the best ones u piece of shitt. he was second place in the rokie year and in the next he was the champ , that's why the world is upside down , because of idiot's like? u. no good driver can win without a good car , put schumacher in a minardi , what would he do?"

"i? think you never watched formula one!!! I have watched every race since the 1999 season and so i know that the things you show in this vid are s**t. So you better make vids about things you know about. sorry for my bad english i´m german GO VETTEL!!!"

"HAHAHAHAHAHA nice joke man, Villeneuve here?? hahahahahaha

Are you a retard or something like that?? See? your doctor"


I <3 YouTube comments.

[CarlosFerreira]

I <3 YouTube comments.

[Myrvold]

Argubly Fangio's WC in 1956 as Collins handed his car over to him half way through the final race when Collins was on course for the WC.

My point: You could go on about who the worst WC is, but in truth, they all made the best of the circumstances they were in.

yea, but there is no one that will ever say that Fangio isn't worthy a WDC, because he won 5. I also find it funny that both JV and Hill were in the best car with a bad 2. driver, I mean, then must Villeneuve be really bad, when he was teammate with Hill, not to Mention Frentzen that got beaten by JV twice, and then he destroyed Hill... I mean, it's impossible to tell who is the best that way. Last year, Button was the fastest, in 08 Hamilton was, that's the facts. And no WDC is undeserved, you don't get into F1, and in a championship winning car, and then, still beat your teammate, and everyone else to win a championship if you ain't a good driver.

I also remember I got bashed when I compared Hamilton to Villeneuve... but the fact is:

JV's first season: 2nd place, had a chance to win the champ when going into the last race, didn't do it.
LH's first season: 2nd place, had a chance to win the champ when going into the last race, didn't do it.

JV's secons season: 1st place, won the champ in the last race under remarkable situations, when Schumacher(German) drove into him, trying to take him out.
LH's second season: 1st place, won the champ in the last race under remarkable situations, when he overtook Glock(German) in the last turn

JV's third season: 5th place. After some big rulechanges (narrower cars, grooved tyres etc.) Williams was not longer the best car. He finished 5th, best of the rest (behind the two teams that was best, clearly best), and one point ahead of the guy in 6th place (the World champion from two years earlier)
LH's third season. 5th plave. After some big rulechanges (wings, tyres etc.) McLaren was not longer among the fastest cars. He finished 5th, best of the rest (behind the two teams that was clearly best that season) and one point ahead of the guy in 6th place (the World champion from two years earlier)

I love coincidences!

[tc3j3r]

Argubly Fangio's WC in 1956 as Collins handed his car over to him half way through the final race when Collins was on course for the WC.

My point: You could go on about who the worst WC is, but in truth, they all made the best of the circumstances they were in.

yea, but there is no one that will ever say that Fangio isn't worthy a WDC, because he won 5. I also find it funny that both JV and Hill were in the best car with a bad 2. driver, I mean, then must Villeneuve be really bad, when he was teammate with Hill, not to Mention Frentzen that got beaten by JV twice, and then he destroyed Hill... I mean, it's impossible to tell who is the best that way. Last year, Button was the fastest, in 08 Hamilton was, that's the facts. And no WDC is undeserved, you don't get into F1, and in a championship winning car, and then, still beat your teammate, and everyone else to win a championship if you ain't a good driver.

I also remember I got bashed when I compared Hamilton to Villeneuve... but the fact is:

JV's first season: 2nd place, had a chance to win the champ when going into the last race, didn't do it.
LH's first season: 2nd place, had a chance to win the champ when going into the last race, didn't do it.

JV's secons season: 1st place, won the champ in the last race under remarkable situations, when Schumacher(German) drove into him, trying to take him out.
LH's second season: 1st place, won the champ in the last race under remarkable situations, when he overtook Glock(German) in the last turn

JV's third season: 5th place. After some big rulechanges (narrower cars, grooved tyres etc.) Williams was not longer the best car. He finished 5th, best of the rest (behind the two teams that was best, clearly best), and one point ahead of the guy in 6th place (the World champion from two years earlier)
LH's third season. 5th plave. After some big rulechanges (wings, tyres etc.) McLaren was not longer among the fastest cars. He finished 5th, best of the rest (behind the two teams that was clearly best that season) and one point ahead of the guy in 6th place (the World champion from two years earlier)

I love coincidences!

You forgot to mention that they both took 4 wins in their first season!

[dr-baker]

Button - All managed to end up in the best car in the grid with a second rate co-driver and walked into the championship.

Schumacher won 5 world championships with the same "second-rate co-driver" so Schumacher should be in this category too?

[DemocalypseNow]

Button - All managed to end up in the best car in the grid with a second rate co-driver and walked into the championship.

Schumacher won 5 world championships with the same "second-rate co-driver" so Schumacher should be in this category too?

Yes, he should.

You just burned yourself there

[jackanderton]

I detest this notion of the unworthy champion. Mansell/Hill/Button/JV were all worthy champions.

Fangio/Senna/Schumacher won titles under similar circumstances.

[CarlosFerreira]

I detest this notion of the unworthy champion. Mansell/Hill/Button/JV were all worthy champions.

Yup, that's for sure. F1 has never been about who's the best in equal material. That notion is false. F1 has always been about the driver, of course, but also about the car and the team. Of course one could argue Senna had it harder to be a champion since his team mate was the magnificent Alain Prost (and, likewise, Prost managed to beat Senna to the title in the same car and team). But Mansell, Hill, Villeneuve and Button were all champions while having race winners as their team mates. That means something in my book - that when the time came, they did the job.

Worthy champions.

[coops]

I detest this notion of the unworthy champion. Mansell/Hill/Button/JV were all worthy champions.

Its the same old same old; 'He had a car advantage'. Blah-blah-get-an-award-for-stating-the-bleeding-obvious. Useless cars maybe fluke into lucky wins but they dont win titles. Hakkinen never even came close to a title (or bona fide race win) until Newey created a superior car.

Ironically, such is the fickle nature of the general public, had JV actually been punted off by MSC and never won a title he probably would now be held in slightly higher regard. Plucky little scruff-bag and all that.

[Myrvold]

However, if JV had been punted off, I still think Schumacher would've been DQ'd. Remember that Frentzen got the 2nd place in that champ.

[noisebox]

Hamilton - #1 driver in the best team on the grid without ever having to 'work his way up'

McLaren didn't give him the race seat because he's slow did they? Talent is talent, whether or not it's recognised from the 1st or 101st race of a drivers career.

[Myrvold]

That's true, but it is a bit like Jimmie Johnson in NASCAR, he went into a top-car at once, people like drivers who fight for it, more like Button, Webber, however, he did prove himself in the lower formulas, a bit like Montoya and Villeneuve, so I can't see a big problem. But I do think that Ron's cuddly way to hande Lewis is a part of it, he have many times looked like a person who have gotten into F1 too easy, and got into a top car too easy.

[DemocalypseNow]

That's true, but it is a bit like Jimmie Johnson in NASCAR, he went into a top-car at once, people like drivers who fight for it, more like Button, Webber, however, he did prove himself in the lower formulas, a bit like Montoya and Villeneuve, so I can't see a big problem. But I do think that Ron's cuddly way to hande Lewis is a part of it, he have many times looked like a person who have gotten into F1 too easy, and got into a top car too easy.

I disagree with the whole Lewis had it too easy thing. He deserved that seat. Between him and De La Rosa, he was clearly the better driver.
15 out of 20 wins in his F3 championship winning season followed by the GP2 title a year later. He had the credentials to back up the drive.

JJ on the other hand was a bit mediocre in the Busch Series - but all of a sudden when he moved to Cup cars (especially the CoT) he was a sensation.

[Myrvold]

That's true, but it is a bit like Jimmie Johnson in NASCAR, he went into a top-car at once, people like drivers who fight for it, more like Button, Webber, however, he did prove himself in the lower formulas, a bit like Montoya and Villeneuve, so I can't see a big problem. But I do think that Ron's cuddly way to hande Lewis is a part of it, he have many times looked like a person who have gotten into F1 too easy, and got into a top car too easy.

I disagree with the whole Lewis had it too easy thing. He deserved that seat. Between him and De La Rosa, he was clearly the better driver.
15 out of 20 wins in his F3 championship winning season followed by the GP2 title a year later. He had the credentials to back up the drive.

JJ on the other hand was a bit mediocre in the Busch Series - but all of a sudden when he moved to Cup cars (especially the CoT) he was a sensation.

Uhm, yes, I did say he did prove himself i lower formulas, a bit like JV and JPM (they also used ChampCar to prove themselfe), and yes, I also do think he was and is a better driver than PDlR, didn't say anything else either, but he got it easy when Ron and McLaren helped him all his career, there is so many great talents that miss out because of money, that didn't Lewis need to worry about at all, therefor he got it easy, the same goes for some of the youngshots now, the Red Bull guys, I'm sure I could find two drivers who would've done better in the Torro Rosso than SB and JA.

Yes, I sort of want to see what's become knows as "the american dream" a poor person, who fights his way up to F1, despite all odds, and makes it good! (No, Lewis got helt waaaaaay to early to qualify in that category)

[coops]

Hamilton - #1 driver in the best team on the grid without ever having to 'work his way up'

McLaren didn't give him the race seat because he's slow did they? Talent is talent, whether or not it's recognised from the 1st or 101st race of a drivers career.

Its not like he went from working in Tesco to driving for McLaren is it? And Raikkonen appeared as if from nowhere to drive for Sauber which was also clearly a good decision.

[dr-baker]

Button - All managed to end up in the best car in the grid with a second rate co-driver and walked into the championship.

Schumacher won 5 world championships with the same "second-rate co-driver" so Schumacher should be in this category too?

Yes, he should.

You just burned yourself there

Burned myself? Depends how you look at it. Cos I rate Button much more highly than Schumi...

[mario]

That's true, but it is a bit like Jimmie Johnson in NASCAR, he went into a top-car at once, people like drivers who fight for it, more like Button, Webber, however, he did prove himself in the lower formulas, a bit like Montoya and Villeneuve, so I can't see a big problem. But I do think that Ron's cuddly way to hande Lewis is a part of it, he have many times looked like a person who have gotten into F1 too easy, and got into a top car too easy.

I disagree with the whole Lewis had it too easy thing. He deserved that seat. Between him and De La Rosa, he was clearly the better driver.
15 out of 20 wins in his F3 championship winning season followed by the GP2 title a year later. He had the credentials to back up the drive.

JJ on the other hand was a bit mediocre in the Busch Series - but all of a sudden when he moved to Cup cars (especially the CoT) he was a sensation.

Ron wasn't always that kind to Lewis during his development though - after all, Mclaren did drop Lewis from their development program at the start of 2004 after an argument between Hamilton and Ron over funding for entering Formula 3 (which is why Williams nearly signed him for their development program instead), although they did later resign him when they had talks again later that year.

The thing is, with the cost of motorsport being so high, there are a lot of potentially very gifted drivers who miss out on entering the higher echelons because they cannot afford to do so. In reality, if you dig a little, you soon find that a number of those people who entered F1 had a lot of financial help along the way from established teams.
Lewis was backed by Mclaren, Nick Heidfeld was signed up by Norbert Haug, and was effectively backed by Mercedes (and it was rumoured that Mercedes were pushing Ron to sign him instead of Kimi, because Heidfeld would be better for their publicity material), Schumacher was technically still contracted to the Mercedes Group C team when he entered F1, and nearly ended up at Sauber (because Sauber used Mercedes/Ilmor engines, and Schumacher had a clause that stated that he could be made to drive for a Mercedes backed team), Vettel has had his career bankrolled by the Red Bull driver development fund, Heikki Kovaleinen was funded by the Renault F1 team...the list goes on and on.

That is not to disparage any of the aforementioned drivers - each one of them must have shown enough promise along the way to attract sponsorship from a particular backer - however, to say that one particular driver made it into F1 the easy way because of backing from an existing team, or a big manufacturer, is not necessarily true, considering that most drivers have only made it into the sport because they received help from a team in F1.

[Captain Hammer]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more insane: Qaddafi Jnr. linked to Villeneuve by Durangp. Add the son of a psychotic dictator and wealthy despot to the list of reasons why Villeneuve Racing is made of awesome.

[muttley]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more insane: Qaddafi Jnr. linked to Villeneuve by Durangp. Add the son of a psychotic dictator and wealthy despot to the list of reasons why Villeneuve Racing is made of awesome.

It's like watching an episode of Speed Racer happen in real life! That's amazing!

[CarlosFerreira]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more insane: Qaddafi Jnr. linked to Villeneuve by Durangp. Add the son of a psychotic dictator and wealthy despot to the list of reasons why Villeneuve Racing is made of awesome.

Italian PM, Silvio Berlusconi, to announce Italy will support the burgeoning team. And Flavio Briatore to be appointed team principal.

No, serious.

[mario]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more insane: Qaddafi Jnr. linked to Villeneuve by Durangp. Add the son of a psychotic dictator and wealthy despot to the list of reasons why Villeneuve Racing is made of awesome.

Italian PM, Silvio Berlusconi, to announce Italy will support the burgeoning team. And Flavio Briatore to be appointed team principal.

No, serious.

Considering that Briatore has genuinely been linked to the team, along with Symmonds, I can't tell whether you are serious about Berlusconi declaring support from Italian businessmen or not. That said, we have got to the point where real life and comedic farce seem to be indistinguishable...

[CarlosFerreira]

Considering that Briatore has genuinely been linked to the team, along with Symmonds, I can't tell whether you are serious about Berlusconi declaring support from Italian businessmen or not. That said, we have got to the point where real life and comedic farce seem to be indistinguishable...

Did they? Crikey!

I was merely commenting on the push Mr Berlusconi has given to the relationship between Italy and the Gaddaffi regime in recent years...

[eagleash]

Considering that Briatore has genuinely been linked to the team, along with Symmonds, I can't tell whether you are serious about Berlusconi declaring support from Italian businessmen or not. That said, we have got to the point where real life and comedic farce seem to be indistinguishable...

Did they? Crikey!

I was merely commenting on the push Mr Berlusconi has given to the relationship between Italy and the Gaddaffi regime in recent years...

All this needs is the signing of HWNSNBM, sponsored by The Taliban....

@Carlos TILFTITWDC?

[CarlosFerreira]

All this needs is the signing of HWNSNBM, sponsored by The Taliban....

@Carlos TILFTITWDC?

I like the first part, but - what's a TILF, I wonder.

[eagleash]

All this needs is the signing of HWNSNBM, sponsored by The Taliban....

@Carlos TILFTITWDC?

I like the first part, but - what's a TILF, I wonder.

"Things I'm looking forward" ("to" etc.)

[CarlosFerreira]

All this needs is the signing of HWNSNBM, sponsored by The Taliban....

@Carlos TILFTITWDC?

I like the first part, but - what's a TILF, I wonder.

"Things I'm looking forward" ("to" etc.)

Ah, that!

Well, it sure is something to look forward to, for comedy value.

With all due respect for mario and remaining Italian users, I both love and loathe Mr Berlusconi. The serious part of me can't stand the character, but as a comic relief? Unbeatable.

[mario]

Considering that Briatore has genuinely been linked to the team, along with Symmonds, I can't tell whether you are serious about Berlusconi declaring support from Italian businessmen or not. That said, we have got to the point where real life and comedic farce seem to be indistinguishable...

Did they? Crikey!

I was merely commenting on the push Mr Berlusconi has given to the relationship between Italy and the Gaddaffi regime in recent years...

Well, Autosport has picked up on a report by Auto Motor Und Sport which stated that Briatore and Symmonds are linked to the bid:

German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, which first reported the story, suggested that former Renault team bosses Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds were involved with the project. There have also been suggestions of a partnership with ex-GP2 team Durango, which announced its F1 ambitions earlier this year.

Taken from this article http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/85328

Ah, that!

Well, it sure is something to look forward to, for comedy value.

With all due respect for mario and remaining Italian users, I both love and loathe Mr Berlusconi. The serious part of me can't stand the character, but as a comic relief? Unbeatable.

It's more of a black comedy from my point of view, I must say (and don't worry - I'm not offended by the comment, as I've heard sentiments like that a number of times. I just wish that I didn't live in a world where I was hearing the same comment many times over...)

[CarlosFerreira]

It's more of a black comedy from my point of view, I must say (and don't worry - I'm not offended by the comment, as I've heard sentiments like that a number of times. I just wish that I didn't live in a world where I was hearing the same comment many times over...)

I have a few Italian friends, and they seem to be somewhat tired of it too. It doesn't help, I know, but our own PM back in Portugal is probably a distant relative of Mr Berlusconi's, judging by his CV.

Back to Villeneuve Racing - any chance they may pick up the people involved is the Spygate a couple of years ago? I remember Stefan was tapping all of them some time ago.

Perhaps Stefan - who has been awfully quiet this last couple of weeks or so - could be brought in as well...

[AndreaModa]

Perhaps Stefan - who has been awfully quiet this last couple of weeks or so - could be brought in as well...

Well you know what they say...

...no news is good news!

[mario]

It's more of a black comedy from my point of view, I must say (and don't worry - I'm not offended by the comment, as I've heard sentiments like that a number of times. I just wish that I didn't live in a world where I was hearing the same comment many times over...)

I have a few Italian friends, and they seem to be somewhat tired of it too. It doesn't help, I know, but our own PM back in Portugal is probably a distant relative of Mr Berlusconi's, judging by his CV.

Back to Villeneuve Racing - any chance they may pick up the people involved is the Spygate a couple of years ago? I remember Stefan was tapping all of them some time ago.

Perhaps Stefan - who has been awfully quiet this last couple of weeks or so - could be brought in as well...

Well, on the political side, it just seems to be the case that come what may, Berlusconi always seems to have a way out. I suppose that the only consolation that can be taken is that at least he hasn't managed to be as corrupt as the French (not that he isn't corrupt - just that it'd take some going to match people like Chirac, who would routinely bribe people with suitcases of cash, or the recent accusations levelled against most of the current government...)

On the actual topic of Villeneuve Racing - they might consider a few of those involved in Spygate, although I suspect that even if Coughlan and Stepney could re-enter the sport (I think that they got a temporary ban in return for providing evidence - 5 years if I remember rightly?), there would be quite a few people within the paddock who would do their best to keep them out (in particular Ferrari - although tempers have cooled there, they are still unlikely to welcome them back, and would probably lobby Villeneuve furiously if he tried to recruit them).
Probably, though, the more likely scenario is that Briatore and Symmonds contacts with Renault would be used to try and draw people across from Renault, in much the same way that Gascoyne seemingly has tempted people across from Force India to Lotus.

As for Stefan, he recently seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth - he has been very quiet (although there are rumours that he is looking to get a Cosworth engine deal - only problem is, Cosworth want payment up front for engine supplies, and I'm damned if I know where he is going to get €5 million for engines).

[LionZoo]

Villeneuve just feels like the creepy stalker of Formula One now. He's always hanging around the window, always declaring his interest, but he just doesn't seem to be able to get the girl (Formula One in this case) to give him the time of day. Therefore, he tries more and more elaborate plans until finally he's so consumed with this obsession that he'll do anything, ANYTHING, to get what he wants.

Jacques Villeneuve - F1 Stalker! In theaters for the 2012 season!

[TomWazzleshaw]

Villeneuve just feels like the creepy stalker of Formula One now. He's always hanging around the window, always declaring his interest, but he just doesn't seem to be able to get the girl (Formula One in this case) to give him the time of day. Therefore, he tries more and more elaborate plans until finally he's so consumed with this obsession that he'll do anything, ANYTHING, to get what he wants.

BINGO! Someone give this man a beer.

[coops]

Villeneuve just feels like the creepy stalker of Formula One now!

Indeed, hes taken the title from Nigel Mansell who spent most of the mid to late nineties lurking on the fringe.
("Mmm, a test for Jordan in 1996, and then an assault on the title in 1997" he may or may not have thought)

[mario]

Villeneuve just feels like the creepy stalker of Formula One now!

Indeed, hes taken the title from Nigel Mansell who spent most of the mid to late nineties lurking on the fringe.
("Mmm, a test for Jordan in 1996, and then an assault on the title in 1997" he may or may not have thought)

Well, Mansell might have always been keen to don the helmet one more time, but he wasn't so desperate to re-enter the sport that he founded his own team.
At least we have now had confirmation that Villeneuve has merged his entry with Durango - however, he is keen to quash some of the rumours about sponsors:

"There are a number of rumours circulating at the moment and I wanted to clarify a few things before this gets out of hand," said Villeneuve.
"The team will be a joint venture with Durango, and based out of Italy. To be clear, right now all the money comes from corporate sponsorship, and not from personal investors."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85401

Evidently, it seems that he is trying to distance himself from Gaddaffi (and who wouldn't want to do that?) - although I would be interested to find out who these corporate sponsors are.