2010 Driver Market

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Jun 2009, 03:18

Okay, I know we're not even halfway through the season, but now that the 2010 grid is confirmed and there are at least six seats available, the time has come for the first rounds of the 2010 silly season! This is the place to discuss the driver transfer market and all the rumour and hearsay associated with it. However, before we begin, I'd like to make a note that Alonso won't be going to Ferrari next year; both Massa and Raikkonen have contracts that see them through 2010, so we can put that malicious rumour to bed whatever the Spanish tabloids say. Anybody who correctly picks the lineup for 2010 will win our fantastic first prize, a great big shiny nothing, with second place taking home a slightly smaller nothing.

Discuss!

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 25 Jun 2009, 03:58

Well, I don't think there's room for Jacques V...but it's F1, you never know.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Jun 2009, 04:37

This is a serious thread. We know there's no way Villeneuve is going to come back.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 25 Jun 2009, 05:07

How do you know there is "no Way" JV won't come back??.........

there are 3 BRAND NEW teams and only ONE of them has ANY kind of Experience with Formula 1 and that was 16 years ago........

I'm sure there's a spot on a new team for a driver with experience...........

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Jun 2009, 05:18

And I'm sure there's a list of drivers with experience who have been in the sport while Villeneuve has been off tending to his singing career. Like Pedro de la Rosa, for one.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 25 Jun 2009, 05:36

Conor Daly, Phil Giebler, and Graham Rahal might be in with a shot for the USF1 seats, but with no budget cap, the three new teams will not make it onto the grid -- at least, not all three will.

Also, let's not be so hasty as to suggest all the 2009 drivers will keep their rides ... I say Bourdais gets turfed and takes the #02 car in the IRL.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Jun 2009, 05:53

Cynon wrote:Conor Daly, Phil Giebler, and Graham Rahal might be in with a shot for the USF1 seats, but with no budget cap, the three new teams will not make it onto the grid -- at least, not all three will.

Actually, I believe the teams are still supporting them with technical informaiton and advice and FOM are still providing financial aid. Part of the arrangement with the FIA is now that the teams aim to bring costs down gradually, so that they're at about the same level as the early-to-mid 1990s. Also, I believe both US-F1 and Campos have said they'd be willing to compete without a budget cap.

I do agree with you on Bourdais - he was only really kept to ensure continuity within the team - but I don't think he's the only one who's going to get shafted. Unless they can score at Manor or Force India, Piquet and Nakajima are likely to be turfed out, and Fisichella is likely to retire (whether or not by his own choice remains to be seen). Kovalainen may also be looking for alternate employment next season, and I can't see Brawn keeping Barrichello when they could pick up someone like Kubica or maybe Alonso or Rosberg unless the Brazilian really starts to shine. Given that there are alredy six open seats, some of the teams will want to avoid taking on too many rookies, so I can see the more experienced drivers getting shuffled around a little. I can see Barrichello at Manor or US-F1 as he'd be invaluable to them, and Kovalainen may find himself at BMW. Sebasten Buemi might also find himself with a new team - not Red Bull - as he's been pretty impressive.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 03 Jul 2009, 17:19

Big first post for me, but hey hey.

Saw this thread and while the posting problems were up, thought I'd throw together an entire list. So, from Blue Flag Productions...

*drumroll*

---

Brawn-Cosworth
#1: Jenson Button
#2: Vitaly Petrov
Test: Alex Wurz

With Barrichello departed bitter about team orders, Vitaly Petrov was signed on as second place on the 2009 GP2 championship, bringing with him many Russian investors to fill Brawn's ranks. Ashamed of being outdone by a solo team the Mercedes boys did not renew their contract and instead Ross Brawn took the Cosworth package.

Red Bull-Ferrari
#1: Sebastian Vettel
#2: Mark Webber
Test: Brendon Hartley

With Renault all but pulling out this year, the Red Bull teams switched around their customer supplies to provide the better-tuned Ferrari engine to the Red Bull cars and instead let the STR team run with Cosworth engines which in all were cheaper so it worked out well enough. Webber's strong run to third in the championship last year and his first win were enough to convince the team to keep him on for a third term.

Toyota
#1: Timo Glock
#2: Kamui Kobayashi
Test: Jarno Trulli

Having proved himself as improving in many years of GP2 and winning an Asia series, the Toyota board agreed funding for one more year as long as Kobayashi got a drive. To his dismay, Trulli was given the shove, leaving Glock to contend with Kobayashi on the track. Jarno was allowed to stay as test driver but he is openly critical about the orders of the team.

Ferrari
#1: Felipe Massa
#2: Kimi Raikkonen
Test: Luca Badoer

Despite the many rumours about Fernando Alonso's destination for 2010 replacing Raikkonen, the team have since announced that they will not be renewing either driver's contracts at the end of this year, Kimi moving to Di Montezemo's Abarth rally team to help score some more points while Massa will be heading Fiat's new move into Brazil in the Brazilian Stock Car Series.

Williams-Toyota
#1: Kazuki Nakajima
#2: Nico Hulkenberg
Test: Dani Clos

With Nico Rosberg's leaving at the end of the year, Frank Williams spent no time in hiring the hotshot new German Nico alongside Kazuki who showed great promise in the faster tracks and scored his first podium in Brazil last year. He has said there is a good atmosphere in the team and even if Toyota goes he hopes to stay on. Clos was elevated to test driver, which he shares with a run in GP2.

Briatore-Renault
#1: Fernando Alonso
#2: Romain Grosjean
Test: Giedo Van De Garde

Renault as a manufacturer pulled out at the end of the year but agreed to supply engines to Flavio Briatore's team as long as there was a French driver in it. Immediantly kicking Piquet in favour of the GP2 champion Grosjean, the frenchman has kept quiet about his new team and said little this testing season. Fernando Alonso, who was only kept on because of a huge salary and much pleading from Briatore, is staying on a race-by-race basis.

McLaren-Mercedes
#1: Lewis Hamilton
#2: Nico Rosberg
Test: Gary Paffett

McLaren Mercedes abandoned their 2009 title challenge to begin working on the MP4-25 after an appalling outing at Germany and more foolish errors from Kovalainen saw him outed at the end of the year, replaced by the eager young Nico Rosberg. Hamilton and Rosberg appear to be working in full power and with a German driver in the team Haug is pushing for equality. To be a close run for sure.

Torro Rosso-Cosworth
#1: Sebastian Buemi
#2: Jaime Alguersuari
Test: Brendon Hartley

For his terrible attitude and poor scoring compared to a very good rookie performance compared to his team-mate, Sebastian Bourdais was kicked in favour of the duo of the spaniard Alguersuari and kiwi Hartley, who will share the second seat in much the same way that Red Bull switched Liuzzi and Klien round in 2005. Jaime will take over when the European leg begins but bookies' odds are on him to outperform Hartley this year. Either way, Sebastian Buemi is keen to capitalise on a good season last year.

BMW
#1: Robert Kubica
#2: Nick Heidfeld
Test: Marko Asmer

An unchanged line-up at BMW save for the departure of Christian Klien to do more running for Peugeot at the Le Mans series. Marko Asmer retains his GP2 drive and moves up to test/reserve driver, a keen favourite thanks to a lot of sponsorship he brings and both Kubica and Heidfeld knows they are under pressure to perform.

Force India-Mercedes
#1: Karun Chandhok
#2: Paul Di Resta
Test:

Finally, with their strong performance last year, Force India are looking more promising this year. Fisichella and Sutil have both been dumped in favour of the earnest GP2 driver Karun Chandhok, easily Mallya's favourite over the Mercedes-pushed Paul Di Resta. Di Resta hasn't had as much single seater practice as his teammate but is believed to have more raw talent. They are still awaiting calls for a test driver after Vitantonio Liuzzi left for good.

US F1-Cosworth
#1: Scott Speed
#2: Rubens Barrichello
Test: Danica Patrick

Speed reluctantly returned to a cabin for a stalwart US driver for the new team alongside the bitter and angry Barrichello, seeking revenge on Brawn for the assumed team orders which meant he lost the championship and never managed to get it back. Danica Patrick has, like many other test drivers, combined testing with a sponsored run in GP2, having attracted plenty of sponsorship and a big fanbase.

Campos-Cosworth
#1: Pedro De La Rosa
#2: Andy Soucek
Test: Natacha Gachang

De La Rosa thought his career over at a poorly arranged McLaren but it was not to be. Adrian Campos insisted on an all-spanish line up and after not having attracted Alonso with a high enough salary and promises of a winning car, he settled for an experienced man to help with the driving. The only other spaniard available was GP2 reject Andy Soucek whose orders this year are to keep the car on the road and show off for sponsors rather than try and drive for wins. He will be rejected if too many stupid errors are made, the promise is and the Spanish F3 champion Gachang is waiting in the wings.

Manor-Cosworth
#1: Anthony Davidson
#2: Adam Carroll
Test:

Manor's driver line-up was somewhat a last-minute arrangement but everything seemed to work out fine for the small British team. They got A1GP master Caroll for their main driver, tempting him with a run alongside his Ireland car and promise of a safety net if A1GP goes under if promised. Anthony Davidson is still on lease somewhat to the BBC but the arrangement seemed to work fine as this means that Manor get a few more mentions and attention on the broadcasts before and after races. The novelty of Anthony running to join in the commentary box if he retires will not be lost on some people.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 03 Jul 2009, 19:05

Here's my try at this from a few days back when the forum broke. Welcome back, forum!

Brawn - Brawn - TBA
1 Jenson Button
2 Rubens Barrichello or Bruno Senna

Red Bull Racing - RBR - Renault
3 Sebastian Vettel
4 Mark Webber or Sebastien Buemi

Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari - Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Kimi Räikkonen

Toyota - Toyota - Toyota
7 Jarno Trulli or Kazuki Nakajima or Kamui Kobayashi
8 Timo Glock

Williams - Williams - Toyota
9 Nico Rosberg or Anthony Davidson
10 Kazuki Nakajima or Kamui Kobayashi or Adam Carroll

BMW - Sauber - BMW
11 Nick Heidfeld or Fernando Alonso or Christian Klien
12 Robert Kubica

McLaren - McLaren - Mercedes
14 Lewis Hamilton
15 Nico Rosberg or Heikki Kovalainen

Renault - Renault - Renault
17 Fernando Alonso or Heikki Kovalainen or Nico Rosberg
18 Nelsinho Piquet or Romain Grosjean or Vitaly Petrov

Scuderia Toro Rosso - STR - Ferrari
19 Brendan Hartley or Bruno Senna or Vitaly Petrov (a few days ago, there was no sign of Alguesuari yet)
20 Sebastien Buemi

Force 1ndia - Force 1ndia - TBA
21 Adrian Sutil or Giancarlo Fisichella
22 Tonio Liuzzi

Campos - Dallara - Cosworth
23 Pedro De La Rosa
24 Giorgio Pantano or Vitaly Petrov or Romain Grosjean

Manor - Wirth - Cosworth
25 Christian Klien or Sebastien Bourdais or ??
26 ??

Team US F1 - USF1 - Cosworth
27 Giancarlo Fisichella or Rubens Barrichello or Nick Heidfeld or Mark Webber
28 the winner of US F1 Idol

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:12

Captain Hammer wrote:And I'm sure there's a list of drivers with experience who have been in the sport while Villeneuve has been off tending to his singing career. Like Pedro de la Rosa, for one.

I can't let this lie - Villeneuve is a world champion who was consistantly completitive, even when BAR were rubbish, he also won championships in the US. Given the right opportunity he could still be quick.

de la Rosa is a proven test driver who has always been found wanting in race outfits. There is no way I would pick de la Rosa for a race seat anywhere. The same applies to Marc Gene, Alex Wurz and Luca Badoer - just beacause they pump in steady lap times in testing doesn't mean they will suddenly find speed they never had in the first flushes of their careers.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 03 Jul 2009, 23:05

de la Rosa is a proven test driver who has always been found wanting in race outfits. There is no way I would pick de la Rosa for a race seat anywhere. The same applies to Marc Gene, Alex Wurz and Luca Badoer - just beacause they pump in steady lap times in testing doesn't mean they will suddenly find speed they never had in the first flushes of their careers.

To be fair to Badoer and Gene though - especially Badoer - they never drove for anyone but the very dregs at the back of the grid. It's impossible to say how well they would have done in better teams.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Jul 2009, 02:16

With Virgin crossing the floor from Brawn to Manor - an e-mail leaked by The Guardian suggests Branson will buy 20% of the new team and that the name may change - Brawn may be forced to take someone like Senna or Petrov to attract sponsorship dolalrs. That said, Larry Page from Google was spied talking with Brawn in the Monaco paddock (even though he was a guest of McLaren) and it's believed he wants the Google name to debut on a race-winning car. Likewise, Coca-Cola CEO Muthar Kent was sighted at Istanbul and rumours suggest the soft drink giant my add their branding to a team next year, but no-one can be sure who he was talking with or even there as a guest of.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 04 Jul 2009, 03:11

I would imagine Frank wanting to keep Nico Rosberg at all costs but Frank does have the massivly talented Hulkenberg to fall on if Rosberg leaves for another team or Frank kicks Kazuki out. But then Williams (should Rosberg stay) would be stuck with the dilema of either keeping KazNaz in the seat and keep the free Toyota engines or outs him and replace him with Hulkenberg and potentially expensive... say Cosworth? engines.

Over BMW's way and considering their form this season I don't see Kubica remaining there for much longer. If Robert does go where will he end up and who would fill the 2nd seat at BMW?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Jul 2009, 04:50

Wizzie wrote:But then Williams (should Rosberg stay) would be stuck with the dilema of either keeping KazNaz in the seat and keep the free Toyota engines or outs him and replace him with Hulkenberg and potentially expensive... say Cosworth? engines.

Cosworth were designed to be inexpensive. While the Williams-Toyota deal is a customer arrangement, I don't think Sir Frank would be getting them for less than a Cosworth spec engine. Then again, Williams and Cosworth would have a less-than-friendly relationship after the disaster that was the 2006 campaign.

Wizzie wrote:Over BMW's way and considering their form this season I don't see Kubica remaining there for much longer. If Robert does go where will he end up and who would fill the 2nd seat at BMW?

Kubica is quick when he's got a good car under him, but give him something like the F1.09 and I think he gets quite frustrated and it shows in his results. If Barrichello leaves Brawn and Brawn himself is hesitant to take an untried driver, Kubica may be an option. He's in his third season, so he's established, but he's not going to cost an extortionate amount the way Alonso would. Ross Brawn is a very shrewd mind on this sort of thing, and he admits he made a mistake in not looking at Jenson Button sooner when he was at Ferrari. I don't think he's the sort to make the same mistake twice, so young drivers like Kubica and Rosberg who have established themselves but have never had a top-flight car under them are right up his alley.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 04 Jul 2009, 05:23

Many Blue Flags wrote:#2: Vitaly Petrov
...Vitaly Petrov was signed on as second place on the 2009 GP2 championship, bringing with him many Russian investors to fill Brawn's ranks. Ashamed of being outdone by a solo team the Mercedes boys did not renew their contract and instead Ross Brawn took the Cosworth package.

You are far from being the first to nominate Petrov for a drive helped by "many Russian investors" but I don't think he really has that many backers. Mind you, I can't say how much those backers are putting into it, but as far as I know the Vyborg Rocket's only Russian sponsors are Favorit and TI (or IT, I can't find his sponsor list).

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 04 Jul 2009, 08:57

According to James Allen's website (he was an awful commentator but his website's good) Alonso has definitely signed for Ferrari for 2010. My guess for next season's lineup is:

Brawn
1 Jenson Button
2 Vitaly Petrov

Red Bull Racing
3 Sebastian Vettel
4 Mark Webber

Ferrari
5 Felipe Massa
6 Fernando Alonso

Toyota
7 Kamui Kobayashi
8 Timo Glock

Williams
9 Nico Hulkenburg
10 Adrian Sutil

BMW
11 Nico Rosberg
12 Robert Kubica

McLaren
14 Lewis Hamilton
15 Heikki Kovalainen

Renault
16 Romain Grosjean
17 Bruno Senna

Scuderia Toro Rosso
18 Brendan Hartley
19 Sebastien Buemi

Force India
20 Karun Chandhok
21 Paul Di Resta

Campos
22 Pedro De La Rosa
23 Giorgio Pantano

Manor
24 Adam Carroll
25 Nelson Piquet

Team US F1
26 Conor Daly
27 Scott Speed

I think Trulli, Heidfeld and Raikkonen will either retire or be kicked out, and that one or two of the teams in the entry list won't be on the grid for Melbourne.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 04 Jul 2009, 09:33

Debaser wrote:Williams
9 Nico Hulkenburg
10 Adrian Sutil

OK, Kovalainen staying I can understand, but why on earth would anyone want to keep Sutil unless he was partnered with a high-performing Veteran? All we know is that he's a wet-weather specialist and only about two races a year are WW races, he's hardly going to be kept on for that. Given that he only brings Medion and Capri-Sun sponsorship to FI, Mallya could probably find himself more comfortable with an Indian driver and a Mercedes driver to keep himself nice and popular. If Sutil is going to go anywhere but DTM next year it'll be McLaren.

RejectSteve wrote:You are far from being the first to nominate Petrov for a drive helped by "many Russian investors" but I don't think he really has that many backers. Mind you, I can't say how much those backers are putting into it, but as far as I know the Vyborg Rocket's only Russian sponsors are Favorit and TI (or IT, I can't find his sponsor list).

Hm, true - but remember where he is at the moment. Not a huge deal of Russians watch formula one to begin with, so the tallies for GP2 would be even lower. Much like with all national hero stories, if Petrov got himself a ride in F1, and particularly with the possibillity of a Russian Grand Prix sooner or later, Vitaly will be beating off suppliers with sticks, and Brawn might even get their own oil supplier from a Russian fuel company. They may even get a works Lada engine.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Jul 2009, 10:50

Debaser wrote:Team US F1
26 Conor Daly
27 Scott Speed

Speed is a waste of a seat. He couldn't do much for Toro Rosso, and he'll only be a liability to a new team. And Conor Daly is too young; he's only seventeen. I think the FIA would be averse to issuing a superlicence to someone so young with only a handful of minor chapionships for expeirence.

I'd bet Robert Wickens. He's not American - he's Canadian - but he i doing pretty well in Formula Two.

Many Blue Frogs wrote:Hm, true - but remember where he is at the moment. Not a huge deal of Russians watch formula one to begin with, so the tallies for GP2 would be even lower. Much like with all national hero stories, if Petrov got himself a ride in F1, and particularly with the possibillity of a Russian Grand Prix sooner or later, Vitaly will be beating off suppliers with sticks, and Brawn might even get their own oil supplier from a Russian fuel company.

I can see Lukoil on the sidepod of the Brawns. Given that their logo was on Button's helmet at Silverstone, Monster Energy might put in as well. Something like Ken Block's Subaru Impreza would look great on a Formula One car, and the Brawn livery isn't too difficult to the Monster colours. Anyone else think the Lukoil Monster might be prowling around next year with Button and Petrov behind the wheel?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 04 Jul 2009, 10:51

Debaser wrote:According to James Allen's website (he was an awful commentator but his website's good) Alonso has definitely signed for Ferrari for 2010.

Problem: Both Ferrari drivers are already signed to drive for Ferrari next year... then again Raikkonen's motivation has been somewhat hard to find recently.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 04 Jul 2009, 10:56

Wizzie wrote:
Debaser wrote:According to James Allen's website (he was an awful commentator but his website's good) Alonso has definitely signed for Ferrari for 2010.

Problem: Both Ferraries are already signed to drive for Ferrari next year... then again Raikkonen's motivation has been somewhat hard to find recently.

There is likely a performance clause in his contract, but Alonso has hardy been out-racing him given that the Spaniard is just one point ahead of Raikkonen. After all, who has the only podium between the two and who doesn't?

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 04 Jul 2009, 11:04

On USF1, I'm not particularly bothered who takes that seat, and don't know much about the candidates, so just put in two random names I'd heard were in contention for that drive. I think Sutil will go to Williams as he's half decent and has sponsors which Williams need, and there's not many better options for Williams anyway, as Rosberg will leave and Nakajima is becoming a liability. Petrov or Senna will replace Rubens at Brawn as they're secent young drivers and have sponsors, Kovalainen will stay with McLaren as he's a good no.2 (loyal and doesn't complain much), Trulli I think will retire to be replaced by Toyota backed Kobayashi, while Renault will hire Grosjean, and either Senna, Petrov, Di Grassi or perhaps try to get Heidfeld or Rubens, though I doubt that. Whatever happens, this will be the busiest offseason since 04/05.

tc3j3r · Post by **tc3j3r** » 04 Jul 2009, 11:24

Captain Hammer wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Debaser wrote:According to James Allen's website (he was an awful commentator but his website's good) Alonso has definitely signed for Ferrari for 2010.

Problem: Both Ferraries are already signed to drive for Ferrari next year... then again Raikkonen's motivation has been somewhat hard to find recently.

There is likely a performance clause in his contract, but Alonso has hardy been out-racing him given that the Spaniard is just one point ahead of Raikkonen. After all, who has the only podium between the two and who doesn't?

Raikkonen has a superior car...

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 04 Jul 2009, 13:38

Debaser wrote:I think Trulli, Heidfeld and Raikkonen will either retire or be kicked out, and that one or two of the teams in the entry list won't be on the grid for Melbourne.

Raikkonen's a maybe for that, but I can't see Trulli or Heidfeld dropping out of the sport. Surely if he were to lose Alonso, Flavio would take on either of them instead of two rookies in Senna and Grosjean? He could take Kubica from BMW either.

Sutil to Williams is a good call, though, I reckon he's a dead cert to go there if Rosberg leaves.

While I'm here, I'll expand my own thoughts.

Barichello will retire unless he overhauls Button which he won't. He's had the top car twice in his career and has sat in it watching Schumacher and Button win everything, he surely realises that things won't get any better for him and pack it in.
Ferrari will find a way to offload Raikkonen (although he mightn't necessarily retire) and get Alonso. Massa will put up with being #2 to Alonso because he knows that no other team will give him enough cuddles.
Red Bull & McLaren are the most likely not to change either driver, although if Rosberg might replace Kovalainen.
Bourdais is out of the sport unless USGP rescue him.
Buemi probably won't move beyond Torro Rosso, he's only had 2 good races.

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 04 Jul 2009, 15:01

Captain Hammer wrote:Speed is a waste of a seat. He couldn't do much for Toro Rosso, and he'll only be a liability to a new team. And Conor Daly is too young; he's only seventeen. I think the FIA would be averse to issuing a superlicence to someone so young with only a handful of minor chapionships for expeirence.

I'd bet Robert Wickens. He's not American - he's Canadian - but he i doing pretty well in Formula Two.
...
I can see Lukoil on the sidepod of the Brawns. Given that their logo was on Button's helmet at Silverstone, Monster Energy might put in as well. Something like Ken Block's Subaru Impreza would look great on a Formula One car, and the Brawn livery isn't too difficult to the Monster colours. Anyone else think the Lukoil Monster might be prowling around next year with Button and Petrov behind the wheel?

With Wickens on Red Bull's books, I could see him replacing Bourdais at Toro Rosso. With that, I could see the cars 'from' Faenza carrying Lukoil sponsorship as Wickens is in their driver support program as well.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 04 Jul 2009, 21:25

CaptainHammer wrote:
Many Blue FLAGS wrote:Hm, true - but remember where he is at the moment. Not a huge deal of Russians watch formula one to begin with, so the tallies for GP2 would be even lower. Much like with all national hero stories, if Petrov got himself a ride in F1, and particularly with the possibillity of a Russian Grand Prix sooner or later, Vitaly will be beating off suppliers with sticks, and Brawn might even get their own oil supplier from a Russian fuel company.

I can see Lukoil on the sidepod of the Brawns. Given that their logo was on Button's helmet at Silverstone, Monster Energy might put in as well. Something like Ken Block's Subaru Impreza would look great on a Formula One car, and the Brawn livery isn't too difficult to the Monster colours. Anyone else think the Lukoil Monster might be prowling around next year with Button and Petrov behind the wheel?

Feck just the livery, given the car control he shows lets' have Block at Brawn next year.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 04 Jul 2009, 21:37

Enforcer wrote:Barichello will retire unless he overhauls Button which he won't. He's had the top car twice in his career and has sat in it watching Schumacher and Button win everything, he surely realises that things won't get any better for him and pack it in.
Ferrari will find a way to offload Raikkonen (although he mightn't necessarily retire) and get Alonso. Massa will put up with being #2 to Alonso because he knows that no other team will give him enough cuddles.
Red Bull & McLaren are the most likely not to change either driver, although if Rosberg might replace Kovalainen.
Bourdais is out of the sport unless USGP rescue him.
Buemi probably won't move beyond Torro Rosso, he's only had 2 good races.

I think that's a good analysis, though I reckon Kubica to Brawn might be an outside bet - they'll be a few queing up to take the 2nd Brawn seat if it's free. Raikkonen is gone at Ferrari and I reeckon Kovalainen will be realeased by McLaren also - he might be picked up by Campos or Manor, or maybe even swap with Rosberg.
Renault have a problem here - no 1 driver off to Ferrari, no 2 driver shite and no driver development program to speak of. Looks to me like a team not planning for a long term future...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Jul 2009, 22:31

noisebox wrote:
Enforcer wrote:Barichello will retire unless he overhauls Button which he won't. He's had the top car twice in his career and has sat in it watching Schumacher and Button win everything, he surely realises that things won't get any better for him and pack it in.
Ferrari will find a way to offload Raikkonen (although he mightn't necessarily retire) and get Alonso. Massa will put up with being #2 to Alonso because he knows that no other team will give him enough cuddles.
Red Bull & McLaren are the most likely not to change either driver, although if Rosberg might replace Kovalainen.
Bourdais is out of the sport unless USGP rescue him.
Buemi probably won't move beyond Torro Rosso, he's only had 2 good races.

I think that's a good analysis, though I reckon Kubica to Brawn might be an outside bet - they'll be a few queing up to take the 2nd Brawn seat if it's free. Raikkonen is gone at Ferrari and I reeckon Kovalainen will be realeased by McLaren also - he might be picked up by Campos or Manor, or maybe even swap with Rosberg.
Renault have a problem here - no 1 driver off to Ferrari, no 2 driver shite and no driver development program to speak of. Looks to me like a team not planning for a long term future...

Erm, Renault do still have Romain Grosjean last time I checked. Now they just need an experienced driver - perhaps Barichello to Renault, anyone?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 04 Jul 2009, 23:15

This is the line-up I'm predicting

Brawn
1.Jenson Button
2.Bruno Senna or Vitaly Petrov or Rubens Barrichello or Robert Kubica

Red Bull
3.Sebastian Vettel
4.Mark Webber

Toyota
5.Jarno Trulli
6.Timo Glock

Ferrari
7.Kimi Raikkonen
8.Felipe Massa

Williams
9.Nico Rosberg
10.Kazuki Nakajima or Nico Hulkenburg

Mclaren
11.Lewis Hamilton
12.Heikki Kovalianen

Renault
14.Fernando Alonso
15.Romain Grosjean

BMW Sauber
16.Robert Kubica or Nick Heidfeld
17.Christian Klien

Toro Rosso
18.Sebastien Buemi
19.Brendon Hartley

Force India
20.Vitantonio Liuzzi
21.Paul Di Resta or Adrian Sutil

USF1
22.Marco Andretti
23.Jacques Villeneuve

Campos Grand Prix
24.Pedro De La Rosa
25.Javier Villa

Manor Grand Prix
26.Giancarlo Fisichella
27.Nick Heidfeld

Barrichello will retire at the end of the season unless he gets a drive at Brawn. Fisichella may land a drive at Manor. Kubica may land a Brawn drive which he will deserve. Heidfeld will probably leave BMW and be replaced by Christian Klien who should be back in F1. I can somehow see Villeneuve getting one last chance in F1 with USF1, they will value his experience. Bourdais will be sacked because he's crap, same will happen with Piquet. Liuzzi and Di Resta will land the Force India drives. De La Rosa will get a race seat at Campos. Rosberg will stay at Williams which will hopefully be a frontrunning car for 2010.

My summary: Let more teams in and bring back Pre-Qualifying.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 Jul 2009, 00:11

redbulljack14 wrote:My summary: Let more teams in and bring back Pre-Qualifying.

Pre-qualifying will not work. Teams and sponsors will not want to spend so much - even with the full budget cap - to enter a sport where there is a very real chance they will not be able to compete.

And you've wasted three perfectly good race seats in the shape of Villenueve, Villa and Klein.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 05 Jul 2009, 03:44

I can see Rubens, potentially, staying if Brawn promise him a #1 spot for next season......Something along the lines of a deal, "Hey Rubens sorry we crapped on you at Ferrari and this last year, tell you what, you stay on and we'll let you win the title next season"......It could happen....

Marco Andretti Will NOT race or USF1, next year or probably EVER.......H e is too much like his Father, and if he can't come straight into a Race winning seat he's not interested.....Besides, he can barely stay on the track in an oval race let alone a Road Course. Danica won't driver either, she's been in IndyCars for too long and has lost her Formula Car experience. Scott Speed would be a HUGE Loss if USF1 didn't hire him in some capacity. He's got experience, albeit in a car that was severely handicapped and then not allowed to run with it's upgrades until AFTER he had been fired for doing the SAME thing his team mate had done.....

As for the rest, I can see Kimi leaving at the end of the Year, he seems to have lost all of his motivation since he won the 07 Title. GianCarlo will be out, he's proven he can only be fast when his team mate is much faster then him and then it's only in flashes.

thats all I've got for now, stupid Head cold making it hard to think

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 05 Jul 2009, 06:12

Fitch wrote:It could happen....

It could, but it certainly won't. Who would want to drive alongside him knowing from the very beginning that they'd be expected to play second fiddle simply so he can have a championship. Brawn didn't crap on him at all; people are simply saying that because Barrichello couldn't produce the goods in Barcelona. Everyone in Brawn - including Brawn himself, Button and Barrichello - have made it pretty clear that team orders were not involved. Hell, even the transmissions between Barrichello and his team made it pretty clear that the emphasis was on Barrichello: whether or not he won came down to what he did next.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:22

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Erm, Renault do still have Romain Grosjean last time I checked. Now they just need an experienced driver - perhaps Barichello to Renault, anyone?

For a team with their pedigree and aspirations one driver with no GPs is not a good place to be. Barrichello and Gosjean would be a sub par line up.

Many Blue Flags · Post by **Many Blue Flags** » 05 Jul 2009, 18:41

noisebox wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Erm, Renault do still have Romain Grosjean last time I checked. Now they just need an experienced driver - perhaps Barichello to Renault, anyone?

For a team with their pedigree and aspirations one driver with no GPs is not a good place to be. Barrichello and Gosjean would be a sub par line up.

Well, every driver has to start somewhere. Remember that they took on Piquet and Kovalainen as rookie drivers in recent years, they had no GPs beforehand.

watka · Post by **watka** » 05 Jul 2009, 19:54

Many Blue Flags wrote:
CaptainHammer wrote:
Many Blue FLAGS wrote:Hm, true - but remember where he is at the moment. Not a huge deal of Russians watch formula one to begin with, so the tallies for GP2 would be even lower. Much like with all national hero stories, if Petrov got himself a ride in F1, and particularly with the possibillity of a Russian Grand Prix sooner or later, Vitaly will be beating off suppliers with sticks, and Brawn might even get their own oil supplier from a Russian fuel company.

I can see Lukoil on the sidepod of the Brawns. Given that their logo was on Button's helmet at Silverstone, Monster Energy might put in as well. Something like Ken Block's Subaru Impreza would look great on a Formula One car, and the Brawn livery isn't too difficult to the Monster colours. Anyone else think the Lukoil Monster might be prowling around next year with Button and Petrov behind the wheel?

Feck just the livery, given the car control he shows lets' have Block at Brawn next year.

Ken Block's just been on Top Gear, although I'm not sure that kind of car control is necessary in F1.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 05 Jul 2009, 21:25

Many Blue Flags wrote:
noisebox wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Erm, Renault do still have Romain Grosjean last time I checked. Now they just need an experienced driver - perhaps Barichello to Renault, anyone?

For a team with their pedigree and aspirations one driver with no GPs is not a good place to be. Barrichello and Gosjean would be a sub par line up.

Well, every driver has to start somewhere. Remember that they took on Piquet and Kovalainen as rookie drivers in recent years, they had no GPs beforehand.

That's missing the point - they have no lead driver for next year, that's there problem. It's fine having Piquet if Alonso is in the other car, but next year he aint.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 05 Jul 2009, 22:46

noisebox wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Erm, Renault do still have Romain Grosjean last time I checked. Now they just need an experienced driver - perhaps Barichello to Renault, anyone?

For a team with their pedigree and aspirations one driver with no GPs is not a good place to be. Barrichello and Gosjean would be a sub par line up.

I don't think Renault's aspirations will be too high, frankly, considering they've been midfield fodder since 2006 save Alonso's final third of 2008. And excuse me if I seem a tad rude, but having one driver with no GPs is frankly laughable. What about Hamilton? He had no GPs when he went to McLaren. Same with Jacques Villeneuve and Williams. Benneton practically jumped to grab Michael Schumacher after he had only one GP.

noisebox wrote:That's missing the point - they have no lead driver for next year, that's there problem.

Which is where my idea of Barichello to Renault comes in. Whilst Rubens is certainly in the twilight of his career, he is still a very good driver, and will be invaluable for teaching Grosjean a thing or two.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 06 Jul 2009, 08:34

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Renault's aspirations will be too high, frankly, considering they've been midfield fodder since 2006 save Alonso's final third of 2008. And excuse me if I seem a tad rude, but having one driver with no GPs is frankly laughable. What about Hamilton? He had no GPs when he went to McLaren. Same with Jacques Villeneuve and Williams. Benneton practically jumped to grab Michael Schumacher after he had only one GP.

OK - Hamilton, been with McLaren for many years before he gradulated to the F1 drive, he'd won every other championship he entered and was team mate to a double world champion at the top of his game. Villeneuve, also won other championships and was joining a team with an established race winner in Damon Hill. Finally Schumacher did ennough in that one GP to convince anyone he was the real thing. There's not a lot to suggest that Grosjean is in that league.

And to suggest that Renault do not have aspirations beyind the mid field is laughable.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 06 Jul 2009, 11:32

noisebox wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I don't think Renault's aspirations will be too high, frankly, considering they've been midfield fodder since 2006 save Alonso's final third of 2008. And excuse me if I seem a tad rude, but having one driver with no GPs is frankly laughable. What about Hamilton? He had no GPs when he went to McLaren. Same with Jacques Villeneuve and Williams. Benneton practically jumped to grab Michael Schumacher after he had only one GP.

OK - Hamilton, been with McLaren for many years before he gradulated to the F1 drive, he'd won every other championship he entered and was team mate to a double world champion at the top of his game. Villeneuve, also won other championships and was joining a team with an established race winner in Damon Hill. Finally Schumacher did ennough in that one GP to convince anyone he was the real thing. There's not a lot to suggest that Grosjean is in that league.

I suppose you do have a point, but it has been brought up that Renault have taken Piquet and Kovalainen, both of whom had no GPs when they went to Renault. I'd say Grosjean is at least on Kovalainen's skill. And while Schumacher's first GP was certainly impressive, it could've always just been a fluke. Look at David Gilliland in NASCAR - he won his fifth race in a massive upset, and hasn't done a whole lot since, apart from a couple of poles at superspeedways.

noisebox wrote:And to suggest that Renault do not have aspirations beyind the mid field is laughable.

By that, I meant their aspirations for 2010, since that is what this topic is covering. Realistically, I don't think Renault will be aiming much beyond getting podiums occasionally, if that, considering their recent form.

Fitch · Post by **Fitch** » 07 Jul 2009, 03:43

Schumacher did enough in that one GP to convince anyone he was the real thing

What did Schumacher do in that one GP to convince anyone of anything??......He qualified in the Top 10, and then never made it to the Top of Eau Rogue on the 1st Lap??.....There have been SCORES of other drivers who have been WAY more Impressive....

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 07 Jul 2009, 04:10

Fitch wrote:
Schumacher did enough in that one GP to convince anyone he was the real thing

What did Schumacher do in that one GP to convince anyone of anything??......He qualified in the Top 10, and then never made it to the Top of Eau Rogue on the 1st Lap??.....There have been SCORES of other drivers who have been WAY more Impressive....

He outqualified Eric van de Poele at Spa. That is impressive! Eric is Spa.