What is a pay-driver?

[Myrvold]

Ok, for a start, I do know, what a pay-driver is, but where is the magic line, between a sponsor, and a pay-driver?

Drivers like Yamamoto, Lavaggi, Deletraz etc. is typical pay-drivers, everyone calls them that.

Then, a person like Pedro Diniz, he started off as a pay-driver in 95, and he had a partnership with parmalat that followed him. However, in his last years, he proved himself as a fast driver, is he still classified as a pay-driver? Had he been in Sauber because of talent, or was is just the money?
Same goes for Christian Klien, Red Bull payed for him in 04, but after that?

Then, a driver like Fernando Alonso, he has always carried Santander with him, in every single team he's been in. From earlier formulas, and now, in Ferrari. That means, every team he's been driving for, have got money for getting him in the team,- isn't that a pay-driver as well?

So, where is the magic line between a pay-driver and a non pay-driver?

[Captain Hammer]

The line does not exist anymore. Although drivers like Petrov have paid for their seat, the structure of feeder series means that in order to buy a Formula 1 seat, you must at least have the talent whereby you a) qualify for a Superlicence and b) attract a team's attention with your results.

[thehemogoblin]

The line does not exist anymore. Although drivers like Petrov have paid for their seat, the structure of feeder series means that in order to buy a Formula 1 seat, you must at least have the talent whereby you a) qualify for a Superlicence and b) attract a team's attention with your results.

Also, every driver is expected to generate sponsorship for his team, one way or another. Take Ferrari, Fernando Alonso and Santander for example.

[Phoenix]

OK, to clear the question:
-If a driver is required to bring money to the team in order to be signed, then he/she's a pay driver. For example, Jean-Denis Déletraz wouldn't have got his Larrouse and Pacific seats if he hadn't had his sponsorship.
-If a driver is signed by a team on merit but still wants to bring some sponsorship money to sweet the deal or help the team, then he's not a pay driver. Alonso is a clear example: Ferrari signed him because they thought he was the best driver out there, and Santander decided to step in as a publicity stunt.

[Myrvold]

However, Alonso had not been in Ferrari in 2010 if Santander hadn't provided enough money so Ferrari could take in Alonso, and kick out Kimi. Alonso got payed his first years in F1, from "leaseplan" I found his personal sponsors on the internet, not sure if it is correct..

Minardi 01 = Leasplan
Renault 02 = Leasplan
Renault 03 = Leasplan
Renault 04 = Leasplan + Telefonica
Renault 05 = Leasplan + Telefonica
Renault 06 = Leasplan + Telefonica + Mutua Madrileña (Telefonica had theire last year, this year. Remember Alonso went to McLaren, who already had vodafone)
McLaren 07 = Santander + Mutua Madrileña (Both wanted to get out of theire McLaren deal after Alonso decided to quit, MM did so and went to Renault)
Renault 08 = Mutua Madrileña, Silestone
Renault 09 = Mutua Madrileña, Silestone, Universia(owned by Santander)
Ferrari 10 = Santander

However, I don't think he is a pay-driver, but he wouldn't got a seat in Ferrari this year, if it hadn't been for Santander.

[Nessafox]

i consider eric van de poele the only true lease plan-sponsored by-driver if you don't mind
i actually think lease plan was brought to minardi by david saelens who did some testing and drove for their F3000 team, but probably they saw more prospect in sponsoring alonso.
Alsonso was also sponsored by telefonica in F3000 and as a minardi test driver in 2000, 100% pay-driver thus Basically he was promoted to the F1-seat before telefonica pulled out.

[Ferrim]

By this logic, Schumacher also was a pay-driver... remember all those German sponsors he carried at Benetton and Ferrari, like RTL, BitBurger, Dekra and a few more that I can't remember.

BTW the amount of money Alonso's early sponsorships brought was ridiculous. It was not LeasePlan money that put him in a Minardi. Remember that back then Stoddart was planning to run the team as a midfield one and they started the season with two drivers that didn't had a lot of money, because they needed. It wasn't until later that Stoddart really understood how expensive F1 actually was, and started looking for genuine pay-drivers.

[TomWazzleshaw]

By this logic, Schumacher also was a pay-driver...

Your logic is alot closer to the truth than you realise... The only reason Schumacher entered F1 in the first place was because Mercedes paid Jordan $250 000 and claimed that Schumacher knew the Spa track well which infact he didn't. Despite that he qualified 7th and was snapped up by Benetton at the next race and the rest is history...

[Henrique]

As long as the money that comes from a driver's sponsors is higher than the money spent on the driver (wage, insurance, etc...), he's a pay-driver. When that happens, the driver is a source of income.
That's why the teams quickly replace pay-drivers when a sponsor misses a payment. For them, getting money from the drivers is more important that driver's experience or possible results.

[Myrvold]

Henrique, that was a explanation I can live with!

[madmark1974]

I agree that Henrique's definitition is pretty much spot on. You could also put it that a pay driver is someone who brings more financial benefit to the team than on-track benefit.

Without sponsorship / endorsements at some stage of their career I don't think any driver or team could really make it to F1, with the possible exception of rich heirs such as Pedro Diniz and the like.

[lostpin]

Hm, by reading this it turns out that actually everyone is a pay-driver. Yet, I think things are a bit more complicated. If they were only paying to drive, that it would turn out that they're driving just for pure enthusiasm. Which they don't. They get paid by their teams, receive bonuses... I believe this needs a bit more research..

[Henrique]

Hm, by reading this it turns out that actually everyone is a pay-driver. Yet, I think things are a bit more complicated. If they were only paying to drive, that it would turn out that they're driving just for pure enthusiasm. Which they don't. They get paid by their teams, receive bonuses... I believe this needs a bit more research..

Back in the 90s, I saw on a newspaper the F1 drivers ranked by the difference between how much they earn and how much they bring to the team. I remember that the pay drivers were at the bottom with negative values (I think Gachot was in last place), because it's almost as if they payed to race.
They get payed like any sportsman to drive, but their sponsors make sure that they race, that the teams have a preference for them.

Pay-drivers just hope that they can show off their skills on the lower teams that take them, and get the interest of higher teams that will want them for their skill and not for their money. People like Alonso (more or less) and Webber were successful in this. Others like Deletraz and Mazzacane were not.

And being a pay driver is not as easy as it sounds. They are completely dependent on their sponsors. If one sponsors misses just one payment, they're out. Drivers like Button and Vettel don't have to worry about that. Anyway, higher teams have sponsors who want to sponsor the teams, regardless of the drivers chosen.

[Myrvold]

Here is all the drivers sponsors for this year (taken from theire website), bold are sponsors that also is on the car, driving suit or any team merchandise.

Alguersuari; Party Poker
Alonso; Europcar
Barrichello; Sparco
Buemi; Audemars Piguet, Creatives, Codemasters, Warson Motors, Pain Paillasse
Button; -
Chandhok; JK Racing, TAG Heuer, Amaron
de la Rosa; Diageo, DriveX, Sportevo, CSS-Stellar
di Grassi; Clear, Soro Cred, Lacaweb, Eurobike, Schioppa
Glock; Deutsche Post
Hamilton; -
Heidfeld; Adrivo Sportpresse, Schuberth
Hülkenberg; Deutsche Vermögensberatung, Dekra, Katjes, Rhein-Waal, Oakley
Klien; Upsynth
Kobayashi; scalp-D, Ray-Ban, Good Smile Company, Dunhill. [size="1"]"He is the first Japanese driver who is in an F1 team without supporting the budget," Sauber is quoted by Turun Sanomat newspaper.[/size]
Kovalainen; -
Kubica; -
Liuzzi; Ludom, Gaudi, Alpinestars, Oikos, Blitz, Bonnie & Clyde, Cor, Bell
Massa; -
Petrov; LADA, Rostehnologii, Favorit
Rosberg; Thomas Sabo
Schumacher; Deutsche Vermögensberatung, Rosbacher, Navyboot, Jet Set, Schuberth, Alpinestars
Senna; Embratel, Banco Cruzeiro do Sul, Hublot, Grupo IBEP
Sutil; Medion, BASE, Navteq, Capri Sonne, Rocket Bikes, Tech Art, Rimowa, Enzo Hotels
Trulli; Audemars Piguet, Bell
Vettel; -
Webber; -
Yamamoto; Sanho, Zoff, Arai, K-Point, Soratabi, IPS

Chandhok is sponsed by JK Tyre, but as they are a rival company to Bridgestone, it is called JK Racing.

[Nessafox]

Klien; Upsynth

they ban tobacco advertising but allow absinth adverting

[madmark1974]

Klien; Upsynth

they ban tobacco advertising but allow absinth adverting

That explains why he signed to drive for HRT

[Klon]

"He is the first Japanese driver who is in an F1 team without supporting the budget," Sauber is quoted by Turun Sanomat newspaper.

Yeeeeeees, I totally believe that...

[Henrique]

I'm glad I don't know any of Yamamoto's sponsors

[RAK]

I'm glad I don't know any of Yamamoto's sponsors

You don't know about Arai? I was of the opinion that they were a rather well-known company.

[Aerond]

i consider eric van de poele the only true lease plan-sponsored by-driver if you don't mind
i actually think lease plan was brought to minardi by david saelens who did some testing and drove for their F3000 team, but probably they saw more prospect in sponsoring alonso.
Alsonso was also sponsored by telefonica in F3000 and as a minardi test driver in 2000, 100% pay-driver thus Basically he was promoted to the F1-seat before telefonica pulled out.

I don´t agree. At the time, the winner of the Open by Nissan had a test with Minardi granted as part of the prize. When Alonso tested the Minardi, he apparently impressed so much that they decided to take him as a test driver later on (probably when Alonso switched from Campos to Briatore as his manager)

[Nessafox]

because telefonica also sponsored the open by nissan, but thankfully he was very good, so they kept him when the big spanish sponsors went away, he wasn't a pay-driver, but he was intended as a pay-driver Sort of, because they'd probably also would have kept gene because of the same sponsors. They paid for his F3000 seat (astromega wasn't too strong on funds, despite being a subtopper) and planned for his F1 seat.

sure he's not 100% pay-driver as i said, but that comment didn't sound 100 % serious either

[pablo_h]

Alsonso

Also n-so?
Al so 'n so
I do that typo all the time too, no idea why

[Frentzen127]

Sonso means dumb in Spanish btw.

[Ed24]

Kimi's quite a unique form of pay driver in 2010 - paid not to drive!

[TomWazzleshaw]

Sorry to dig this up but I just realised the subtle irony in Alguersuari being sponsored by Party Poker

[Ferrim]

Sonso means dumb in Spanish btw.

I had never read it spelt that way... it's usually written as zonzo, but I've just checked and sonso seems to be right as well.

[Phoenix]

Sonso means dumb in Spanish btw.

I had never read it spelt that way... it's usually written as zonzo, but I've just checked and sonso seems to be right as well.

Sonso es español sudamericano.

[rdbextreme]

I just think it's sad that F1 has come to a place where Pay Drivers are needed, and often more sought after than ones with more talent or better future prospects on the track.

[rdbextreme]

here is a story I read at Motorsport.com Trulli weighs in on this VERY situation.

Jarno Trulli believes wealth is becoming too important as the remaining spaces on the F1 grid fill up for 2011.

For the coming season, the likes of Nico Hulkenberg and Nick Heidfeld are facing the prospect of sitting on the sidelines, as respected teams including Williams and Sauber opt instead for race drivers with significant financial backing.

Trulli, one of the oldest and most experienced drivers on the grid, thinks the situation could have knock-on effects for the next generation.

"Today it is so difficult for young drivers," the Italian told Auto Motor und Sport during an interview.

"Money is playing too big a role and the lower series like Formula 3 are too expensive. I couldn't repeat my own career these days," added Trulli, who made his F1 debut in 1997 with Minardi.

The 36-year-old has also raced for major teams including Renault and Toyota, but in 2010 he returned to the back of the grid with Lotus.

"It was not a good season," said Trulli.

In an interview published in Italian by italiaracing, he was more strident.

"I think I deserved a medal for being the unluckiest driver of the year," said Trulli, whose car regularly broke down last season. "There's no need to say it was the worse season in all my life."

To the German publication, he continued: "It was a bit frustrating but it's part of the business. I have accepted it as a transitional season."

Worse still, Trulli insists that the green T127 was not a car to his liking.

"I didn't have what I needed for my driving style," he explained, "so it made the task doubly difficult.

"I need a stiff car that gives me good feedback, but from the first test it was clear that I wouldn't have that."

He knows Lotus is pushing hard to catch up, but can understand some of the criticism of the new teams from established names including Ferrari.

"In the end we are all in the same race and the incumbents should respect those who are just beginning. On the other hand it is true that four seconds behind is too much.

"Now we are a year further ahead and we need a big aero step and a lighter and stiffer car. There is an awful lot to do and if we can do it, then we can fight with the back of the midfield."

But even that is not his goal.

"I must still have the skills that make some people keep believing in me, but just being here is not what I want, which is winning races and the title."

Trulli said he knows first-hand how difficult is Team Lotus' task.

"I raced for Toyota, with great resources and unlimited possibilities, but they never achieved what they wanted to," he noted.

[DanielPT]

I think that those guys in Alonso et al that can be signed by any team any day without sponsorship (except McLaren in Alonso's case) do keep bringing some cash in two ways:

1) Sponsors that want to be associated with them due to market specifics
2) Sponsors that are already there and go with the most popular and PR drivers to boost their sales

and this is just because drivers want to keep having those big fat wages they get from teams to drive. In my point of view a pay driver is someone who wouldn't be there if it wasn't someone paying the team for him to drive, like, say, Pastor Maldonado...

[jpm]

NARAIN KARTHIKEYAN!!!

[Peter]

A driver who everyone will make fun of a team for having, as if they're completely worth nothing more than the money they bring to the team. That pretty much sums it up.

[Myrvold]

Erhm, Diniz? Verstappen?

[thehemogoblin]

Please don't quote entire stories on F1Rejects. Take the necessary quotes out and then link to them. We don't want to have issues with copyright laws.