Your Reject of the Race - South Korea!

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:50

The obvious candidate this time around is the pit entry - but it's since been chaged overnight. Pitting drivers are allowed to enter the lane at speed. So now that the front-runner has been eliminated, who or what is worthy of the Reject title?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 22 Oct 2010, 22:56

Hispania: In one day Sakon spins and stalls it, Bruno has two separate mechanical failures and the team collects a fine for a tyre warmer infringement...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 01:59

Captain Hammer wrote:The obvious candidate this time around is the pit entry - but it's since been chaged overnight. Pitting drivers are allowed to enter the lane at speed. So now that the front-runner has been eliminated, who or what is worthy of the Reject title?

The track construction. Having to reprofile multiple curbs after practice just screams bush league.

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 23 Oct 2010, 02:25

How can we even be negative on ANY problems they have here... I mean, for 2 weeks, most of us didn't even belive they were going to race here...

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:25

Myrvold wrote:How can we even be negative on ANY problems they have here... I mean, for 2 weeks, most of us didn't even belive they were going to race here...

Therefore the ROTR was decided weeks, nay, months ago.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Oct 2010, 03:44

thehemogoblin wrote:The track construction. Having to reprofile multiple curbs after practice just screams bush league.

It's not the first time they've done it this year. Singapore, for one, got a reprofiling.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 Oct 2010, 05:26

It's got to be Senna so far, I mean man, Yamamoto really has the measure of him at this point of the season doesn't he?!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Oct 2010, 05:27

AndreaModa wrote:It's got to be Senna so far, I mean man, Yamamoto really has the measure of him at this point of the season doesn't he?!

Hey. Alteast it gives me more stuff to write about in my editorial about Senna on the F1 Rejects Wiki when I can be bothered continuing it.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:21

So far? Hmm... Force India AGAIN.

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:35

HAHAHA SENNA now your even out qualifyed by Yamamoto maybe it is better to leave the Formula 1 !!!

Good qualifying i have to say i was 2 skeptic about the Korean track ( i still don't like it because of Tilke).
The Redbull's and Alonso did a good job and i think it is over for Mclaren after this weekend.

Between how the tracktemp. was first 27 and at the end 22

how is that possible ?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:36

f1-gast wrote:Between how the tracktemp. was first 27 and at the end 22 how is that possible ?

Less cars on the track to keep the temperature high.

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:43

I understand that but there was a diffrence of 3 degrees down temp, when Q1 started and Q1 ended

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:46

f1-gast wrote:I understand that but there was a diffrence of 3 degrees down temp, when Q1 started and Q1 ended

That might be because of the wind and the cooler air temperature.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:58

f1-gast wrote:( i still don't like it because of Tilke)

If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?

Likewise, if someone else designed Korea, how would you feel about it?

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:17

Captain Hammer wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:The track construction. Having to reprofile multiple curbs after practice just screams bush league.

It's not the first time they've done it this year. Singapore, for one, got a reprofiling.

That doesn't mean it's not sketchy to have that happen. That's an abject failure on the planner's part, in my opinion.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:02

Captain Hammer wrote:
f1-gast wrote:( i still don't like it because of Tilke)

If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?

Likewise, if someone else designed Korea, how would you feel about it?

+1, Captain. Beer's on me.

Liuzzi got kicked out in the first part of qualifying - so he's my nominee for now. Button seems to have dropped noticeably, just not enough for me to start pointing fingers at him yet.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:20

Captain Hammer wrote:
f1-gast wrote:( i still don't like it because of Tilke)

If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?

Likewise, if someone else designed Korea, how would you feel about it?

Tilke himself doesn't bug me, as he's shown himself to be plenty creative when given the opportunity. Just look at turn 8 in Istanbul, which I think is the most challenging turn in Formula One. (As much panache as 130R and Eau Rouge have, their legends are borne more so from what they used to be than what they are now.)

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 23 Oct 2010, 11:57

Senna has to be the early favorite, i mean he was outqualified by yamamoto. It was a weird scene during Q2 when they showed yamamoto high fiving his mechanics etc. I was wondering what it was about, took me a few moments to realize

Post by **mario** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:08

CarlosFerreira wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
f1-gast wrote:( i still don't like it because of Tilke)

If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?

Likewise, if someone else designed Korea, how would you feel about it?

+1, Captain. Beer's on me.

Liuzzi got kicked out in the first part of qualifying - so he's my nominee for now. Button seems to have dropped noticeably, just not enough for me to start pointing fingers at him yet.

I agree that some of the complaints about Tilke's tracks seem to be because of the fact that Tilke is responsible, and not necessarily for any inherent flaws with the design in itself. After all, there are those who complain about Tilke's tracks, but a number of them are actually quite popular with the drivers - Sepang, Istanbul Park and this new venue at Yeongyam have won a fair amount of praise over the years. That isn't to say that he hasn't produced any bad tracks - Valencia, for example, although that was in part down to the regeneration plans of the city - but perhaps some of the criticism comes from prejudice and not experience.

Back to qualifying today - Button was struggling for pace, although it was worth noting that his performance dropped off as the temperature decreased. He had been struggling to get his tyres hot enough during qualifying, and today was reasonably cool - the track went from 27ºC to 22ºC over the course of the session - so that would have worked against him quite a bit. The only consolation for Button is the fact that he is starting on the cleaner side of the grid, so he should have a good chance of getting past a few cars off the line.

At the moment, I would say that there are a few good nominations for ROTR - Force India are there for their poor qualifying performance, although there are signs that the team may have stopped developing the car this year, and several high profile defections from Force India to Lotus Racing have hurt the team. Even so, 14th and 17th might be the signs of things to come in the final few races.
However, HRT have done a good job of bagging the ROTR award for themselves - racking up yet another fine in practise, along with mechanical failures. Bruno Senna is also in with a shout for qualifying so far behind Yamamoto - about 0.8s behind him - although Senna only completed three flying laps compared to six for Yamamoto, and the effects of the track rubbering in were more pronounced today because of the lack of action on track.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:16

Senna and Liuzzi are favourites so far, and Button and Massa are a bit vulnerable as well.

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 23 Oct 2010, 13:22

thehemogoblin wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
f1-gast wrote:( i still don't like it because of Tilke)

If Tilke designed Spa tomorrow, would you hate it?

Likewise, if someone else designed Korea, how would you feel about it?

Tilke himself doesn't bug me, as he's shown himself to be plenty creative when given the opportunity. Just look at turn 8 in Istanbul, which I think is the most challenging turn in Formula One. (As much panache as 130R and Eau Rouge have, their legends are borne more so from what they used to be than what they are now.)

Very true. The issue I have with Tilke is not so much his quality as an F1 circuit designer but the fact that he's the only one who is producing circuits for F1 these days. Most people have little trademark peccadillos when they do something repeatedly and Tilke's ubiquity (he designed or heavily redeveloped nine of the nineteen circuits used by F1 currently, and was also responsible for one track from the very recent past and two new tracks to come in the near future) means that his quirks as a circuit designed - long straits with a slow corner at each end, 'fishtail' left-right-left complexes and first corners that go right then immediately left (or visa versa) - have started to give his tracks a very bland, nondescript appearance.

I don't think Tilke is a bad track designer, I'd just like a little more variety in F1 circuits.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 23 Oct 2010, 18:52

Dom wrote:
thehemogoblin wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Tilke himself doesn't bug me, as he's shown himself to be plenty creative when given the opportunity. Just look at turn 8 in Istanbul, which I think is the most challenging turn in Formula One. (As much panache as 130R and Eau Rouge have, their legends are borne more so from what they used to be than what they are now.)

Very true. The issue I have with Tilke is not so much his quality as an F1 circuit designer but the fact that he's the only one who is producing circuits for F1 these days. Most people have little trademark peccadillos when they do something repeatedly and Tilke's ubiquity (he designed or heavily redeveloped nine of the nineteen circuits used by F1 currently, and was also responsible for one track from the very recent past and two new tracks to come in the near future) means that his quirks as a circuit designed - long straits with a slow corner at each end, 'fishtail' left-right-left complexes and first corners that go right then immediately left (or visa versa) - have started to give his tracks a very bland, nondescript appearance.

I don't think Tilke is a bad track designer, I'd just like a little more variety in F1 circuits.

A lot of his problems come from having to work within the constraints of bad pieces of property and the people with money, who often have no clue what they're doing but still want to put in their two cents.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 23 Oct 2010, 21:43

Vitantonio Liuzzi: His fourth Q1 knockout this season, I believe. He's going to have to do something spectacularly good in tomorrow's race not to get this.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 23 Oct 2010, 22:38

Dom wrote:The issue I have with Tilke is not so much his quality as an F1 circuit designer but the fact that he's the only one who is producing circuits for F1 these days.

Nobody else can compete with Tilke. The likes of Apex Circuit Design and, to a lesser extent, Populous (who did the Silverstone upgrade) are design firms. Tilke GmbH is not an architectural firm as many people believe - Tilke himself is a civil engineer. His company doesn't just provide architecture, but engineering, construction and management. He is able to control the project from the moment of its inception through to handing over the circuit to its owners, meaning he can deliver it on time and to budget (for some reason, Korea was the first project he didn't personally oversee). The others can't guarantee that because construction might get outsourced to a contractor; they operate on a per-needs basis rather then offering a full range of services.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 24 Oct 2010, 02:10

My RotR after qualifying is, without a doubt, Force India and more specifically Liuzzi. They obviously just don't have the development pace of the other midifeld teams and it is really showing now, which is a shame.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 24 Oct 2010, 05:47

Apparently there are no cranes in the "street" section; so I predict that to have a good shot at ROTR.

Ridge Racer · Post by **Ridge Racer** » 24 Oct 2010, 06:52

My vote goes to the race organizers and the FIA for scheduling the race during the rainy/typhoon season in a country where they are known to have massive deluge rainstorms during the winter.

The simple fact that the drivers can't see their tires and Jenson Button was asking for a pair of dry gloves and a dry suit after being on track for three laps behind the safety car says that they need to consider rescheduling the race to another time earlier in the season (after Malaysia and China) when the it's not the rainy season in south east asia.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Oct 2010, 06:53

Ridge Racer wrote:My vote goes to the race organizers and the FIA for scheduling the race during the rainy/typhoon season in a country where they are known to have massive deluge rainstorms during the winter.

The simple fact that the drivers can't see their tires and Jenson Button was asking for a pair of dry gloves and a dry suit after being on track for three laps behind the safety car says that they need to consider rescheduling the race to another time earlier in the season (after Malaysia and China) when the it's not the rainy season in south east asia.

In which case, wouldn't the Japanese GP need to be rescheduled as well then?

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 24 Oct 2010, 06:54

Apparently rain isn't seasonal in Korea, so they said on the BBC

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Oct 2010, 06:56

Warren Hughes wrote:Apparently rain isn't seasonal in Korea, so they said on the BBC

But rain is common in Japan this time of year. Maybe as seasonal as rain in the UK then.

Blackmore · Post by **Blackmore** » 24 Oct 2010, 07:08

Has to be Red Bull and Alonso for begging for there to be no race.

Ridge Racer · Post by **Ridge Racer** » 24 Oct 2010, 07:09

dr-baker wrote:
Ridge Racer wrote:My vote goes to the race organizers and the FIA for scheduling the race during the rainy/typhoon season in a country where they are known to have massive deluge rainstorms during the winter.

The simple fact that the drivers can't see their tires and Jenson Button was asking for a pair of dry gloves and a dry suit after being on track for three laps behind the safety car says that they need to consider rescheduling the race to another time earlier in the season (after Malaysia and China) when the it's not the rainy season in south east asia.

In which case, wouldn't the Japanese GP need to be rescheduled as well then?

South Korea has a moderate sub tropical climate (like Southern Japan) the difference is the weather in South Korea is much more greatly influenced by the weather in neighboring countries like China Malaysia and The Philippines (which have all been hammered by a super typhoon over the last few days).

Whereas Suzuka is located in an area of Japan that isn't as severely affected by rain as Fugi was.

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 24 Oct 2010, 08:46

SUTIL!!!

Awful, simply awful.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:08

Webber. Nothing like doing a donut on the curb, taking out Nico Rosberg and your title hopes simultaneously. Way to go.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:09

Ok, my picks for reject:

Sutil - for just being horrendously ragged, and eventually taking himself out
Williams - almost lost a double points finish due to worn tyres
Red Bull - for their double DNF
Senna - outqualified by Sakon, stupidly chopped across Trulli, was miles slower than even Sakon late in the race, and the only reason he finished ahead of him was because Sakon lost so much time getting lapped
Race Control - Making me get out of bed early for nothing :evil:

EDIT: Hamilton - remember how he lost 2nd place to Alonso on the restart because he stupidly went too deep into Turn 1? Bet he's a bit annoyed about that now.....

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:10

First I thought that race control deserved it. Right now, I feel Webber may have done enough - not because of the crash itself, which was understandable, but because of the consequences.

Also, Sutil made a hash of it. And the track marshalls-cranes-equipment weren't exactly world class, were they?

Myrvold · Post by **Myrvold** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:12

Sutil. No doubt.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:16

So many candidates...

Firstly, Webber, as much as I hate it, but how bad do you have to be to hit the curbs? Although, thanks to Vettel, he's still second.
Then, Sutil, who was gaining places, then spun, then had to start over again, and did well, and then spun, etc. Then he hit Kobayashi and ended it there.
Race control, they spent way, way too long behind it.
Senna - Slower than Sakon. 'Nuff said.
Williams, although they did manage to salvage a 10th thanks to the Hulk, but Barry losing out to Liuzzi?

Archie2K · Post by **Archie2K** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:17

Buemi for taking out Glock. Boo.

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 24 Oct 2010, 09:17

Disregard my previous vote for Liuzzi - he did something surprisingly good. Instead, my Rejects of the Race are:

Adrian Sutil: Embarrassing show from somebody who is supposed to be a wet-weather specialist, particularly seeing his team-mate's sixth place.

Mark Webber: I think his championship aims have completely dissolved now - this is going to be a straight fight against Alonso and Vettel.