2011 Car Launches

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 07 Feb 2011, 10:54

Does anybody know what time the MVR-02 will be released? I can't wait...

Glennerz · Post by **Glennerz** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:34

The launch was set to begin at 1100 GMT, but I haven't heard anything yet...

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:39

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Does anybody know what time the MVR-02 will be released? I can't wait...

Is this it?

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:41

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Does anybody know what time the MVR-02 will be released? I can't wait...

Is this it?

I love the nosecone as usual, and it's interesting to see they've stuck to a low nose. But please don't tell me that's the livery their using! It was beautiful last year, but this one has just succumbed to sponsors, and the stickers aren't put in the best of places...

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:46

Actually, on second thought, it's just the side view of the car which doesn't look good. From the top/front/back, it's still great. I'm not used to those empty sidepods, though.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:51

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Does anybody know what time the MVR-02 will be released? I can't wait...

Is this it?

Livery related, it looks just fine. From the car design point of view, it looks cool but slow, just like last year...

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:55

DanielPT wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:Does anybody know what time the MVR-02 will be released? I can't wait...

Is this it?

Livery related, it looks just fine. From the car design point of view, it looks cool but slow, just like last year...

And they still have the Xtrac gearbox. It'll be a tough year for Virgin... but at least they have proven they have a new car.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 07 Feb 2011, 13:07

They've lost the nice swirly patterns.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 07 Feb 2011, 13:13

Love the new Virgin - very pretty car, let's hope it's a bit faster than it looks though!

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 07 Feb 2011, 13:34

Sorry guys I've been unable to get on F1 rejects since last week on my computer for some reason, and still can't. I'm on my BlackBerry right now. Any suggestions to fix my problem?

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 07 Feb 2011, 14:50

DanielPT wrote:Livery related, it looks just fine. From the car design point of view, it looks cool but slow, just like last year...

Bit too much white on the nosecone, but other than that, it's still Manor Motorsport's colours, and that'll do fine.

Designwise: the airbox and the sidepods haven't changed at all, but the front wing definitely has, and the nose is wider.

From a purely practical point of view, I'm pleased that they've moved the car number from that hidden-away-bit on the front wing between the pillars joining it to the nose, and put it on top of the nose - where it should be. Although a bit further forward would be useful. Admittedly these days we have the red wing / yellow wing on top of the car to identify one driver or the other, but still, throughout last year where there were drivers in the "wrong" order (or at least not the order I'd be used to), I had to constantly remind myself that it was Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso who had the yellow wing on top.

the Masked Lapwing wrote:And they still have the Xtrac gearbox. It'll be a tough year for Virgin... but at least they have proven they have a new car.

...and there's the one question I wanted answered, already answered. I figured Virgin were going to be the only team still stuck with it.

Until it (almost) inevitably self-destructs, though: go on, Timo (and Jérôme), put the frighteners up Toro Rosso at least!

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 07 Feb 2011, 21:16

The new Virgin is disappointing - it looks like a mild evolution from last year, and that's not a great base to start from. I wonder if they are suffering from the limits of their CFD system? Unless they have significantly upgraded it over the last 12 months surely the design will always be similar - the system clearly though last years car was the right direction and it looks like they are repeating the same mistakes this year. That, combined with same drivetrain and no KERS suggests this isn't much of a new car...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 07 Feb 2011, 21:24

Yeah it looks like Evolution not Revolution, which is fine if you're RBR or Ferrari, but not so great when you're 3s off the pace.

watka · Post by **watka** » 07 Feb 2011, 21:25

I too am thinking that an all-CFD design is not a good idea. I mean it is different from all the other competitors but sure using 2 methods to determine aerodynamics is better than relying on one?

JohnMLTX · Post by **JohnMLTX** » 08 Feb 2011, 00:07

watka wrote:I too am thinking that an all-CFD design is not a good idea. I mean it is different from all the other competitors but sure using 2 methods to determine aerodynamics is better than relying on one?

Its more to prove that they don't need a wind tunnel imo, and that they can rely on CFD. And who knows, maybe it'll become the main metjhod of design in a few years.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 08 Feb 2011, 00:27

JohnMLTX wrote:
watka wrote:I too am thinking that an all-CFD design is not a good idea. I mean it is different from all the other competitors but sure using 2 methods to determine aerodynamics is better than relying on one?

Its more to prove that they don't need a wind tunnel imo, and that they can rely on CFD. And who knows, maybe it'll become the main metjhod of design in a few years.

It could be argued that computational fluid dynamics with a Langrangian convergent rationalisation of the Navier-Stokes equations applicable to Newtonian, or indeed non-Newtonian, fluids allows better discrimination of separation and turbulent phenomena around the complex psuedo reality of a modern F1 system.

Or it could be they can't afford a wind tunnel.

The same design principle was used to decide that they would not use KERS.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Feb 2011, 02:52

the Masked Lapwing wrote:And they still have the Xtrac gearbox. It'll be a tough year for Virgin... but at least they have proven they have a new car.

Nick Wirth has said they deveoted a lot of development hours to sorting out the reliability problems. The hydraulics and gearbox all got a lot of work.

The MVR-02 might not look like a stunning evolution of the VR-01, but there are a lot of little things that they've got going. For one, they've managed to build the car around the original chassis length they used in 2010, and packaged it with an appropriately-sized fuel tank. Their sidepods are seriously undercut, and the intake vents themselves are quite small. They've legally routed the exhaust through the diffuser, and the front wing lookds very sophisticated in comparison to what they were running last year. The rear end might not be as tightly-wrapped as the likes of Red Bull and Williams, but it's tighter than most. They've even managed to get a pair of winglets into the space between the front wing uprights.

ElizabethSterling · Post by **ElizabethSterling** » 08 Feb 2011, 07:32

Another thing I'd point out is that probably isn't the car they'll start 2011 with. Most if not all teams are holding one or two cards close to their chests and we've yet to see everything they'll be running come the first race. I'd also like to point out that subtle evolution was the difference between the disastrous MP4-19 and the genuinely impressive MP4-19B or the dominated MP4-17 and the title-contending MP4-17D. In reverse order it was also the difference between the title-contending Ferrari 641 and the farcical 642.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 08 Feb 2011, 08:19

Bloody hell, it's an HRT.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 08 Feb 2011, 08:39

Not too bad, but I was expecting something a bit more striking after they hired Daniel Simon.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 08 Feb 2011, 08:42

That just looks like a poor man's Toyota to me.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 08 Feb 2011, 08:53

I love the HRT's "sponsors". Basically saying "Please, please, PLEASE, give us any money you've got".

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 08 Feb 2011, 08:54

ZOMG!!!!1 BAR ARE BACK!!?!?!?!

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 08 Feb 2011, 09:18

That actually doesn't look too bad at all.

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 08 Feb 2011, 09:28

I love it! But it's time to turn all those 'plea logos' into F1 Rejects logos. We have money, 50$ should do it.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 08 Feb 2011, 09:34

The livery is alright, but the "sponsors"... I wonder if there will be any Hungarian sponsors on the Hungarian GP, just like in 1991 for Lotus, when Magyar Hírlap was sponsoring them!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 08 Feb 2011, 09:40

It's definately a new car though. The semi-shark fin, and I think that's a new front wing, give it away.

And I like the scheme! We didn't really need anymore red and white, the two colours which seem to pop up everywhere, but it's pleasant looking nonetheless

Post by **mario** » 08 Feb 2011, 09:58

Captain Hammer wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:And they still have the Xtrac gearbox. It'll be a tough year for Virgin... but at least they have proven they have a new car.

Nick Wirth has said they deveoted a lot of development hours to sorting out the reliability problems. The hydraulics and gearbox all got a lot of work.

The MVR-02 might not look like a stunning evolution of the VR-01, but there are a lot of little things that they've got going. For one, they've managed to build the car around the original chassis length they used in 2010, and packaged it with an appropriately-sized fuel tank. Their sidepods are seriously undercut, and the intake vents themselves are quite small. They've legally routed the exhaust through the diffuser, and the front wing lookds very sophisticated in comparison to what they were running last year. The rear end might not be as tightly-wrapped as the likes of Red Bull and Williams, but it's tighter than most. They've even managed to get a pair of winglets into the space between the front wing uprights.

I suppose that the trend will be for teams to produce cars that are evolutions of the previous years car this year, but up and down the grid, there are interesting details when you look closer - from Mclaren's L shapoed sidepods, to the front exhausts of Renault, the massively undercut sidepods of the Toro Rosso car or the extreme packaging and mounting of the Williams gearbox and rear suspension. The MVR-02 does seem a little underwhelming as it stands, although I doubt that it will stay like this for long.

I have to agree, though, that they have done some nice work with the exhausts (it's a nice trick to blow through the starter motor hole, although they aren't alone in that - Ferrari seem to be blowing at least some of their exhaust gas through the starter hole too). They seem to have put a lot of effort into the front wing cascade elements, and I agree that there are some nice details there (like the swan neck connections on the beam wing), but for now this seems to be a sort of place holder until the first big upgrade package is ready for the start of the season.

It's interesting to see, though, that only Virgin Racing and HRT (assuming that the F111 do not change their design (and are still around) before the start of the season) are sticking with a low nose concept, whereas everybody else is moving towards a high nose design (with some, like Mercedes, taking that to the extreme). But, then again, when you start looking closer at the F111, you see that quite a few design elements seem to have been carried across from the F110 (the shape of the sidepods and sidepod air deflectors, and the nose of the car), so it isn't surprising that they have stuck with a low nose design.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 08 Feb 2011, 10:03

I love the new HRT, looks very American in my opinion.

Should we give´em a call to check out how much a logo on their car is?? We could fund raise if we see it´s acceptable...
I´m willing to put in 100€!!!!

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 08 Feb 2011, 10:06

Aerond wrote:I love the new HRT, looks very American in my opinion.

Should we give´em a call to check out how much a logo on their car is?? We could fund raise if we see it´s acceptable...
I´m willing to put in 100€!!!!

I may be able to bug my parents for 50.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Feb 2011, 10:21

I have to admit that the HRT F111 is a great looking car with probably the best livery in the great. Too bad it is somewhat slow...

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Feb 2011, 13:03

DanielPT wrote:Too bad it is somewhat slow...

Have you seen it on the track, then? I wasn't aware they had tested it yet.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Feb 2011, 13:34

Captain Hammer wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Too bad it is somewhat slow...

Have you seen it on the track, then? I wasn't aware they had tested it yet.

No, but since it is an evolution of last year car, it can't be that quick...

ElizabethSterling · Post by **ElizabethSterling** » 08 Feb 2011, 13:41

Captain Hammer wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Too bad it is somewhat slow...

Have you seen it on the track, then? I wasn't aware they had tested it yet.

Because the car hasn't been developed constantly since 2010 and they don't have much of a budget in place. I'll be impressed if it stays within 107% for the year to be honest, much more will blow me away. Sure, we don't know, it's just extremely likely is all.

midgrid · Post by **midgrid** » 08 Feb 2011, 14:17

Look closer and see the hidden messages: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s ... try4827767

Glennerz · Post by **Glennerz** » 08 Feb 2011, 14:45

I like it. Especially the asymmetrical green/white 'go-faster' pattern.

midgrid wrote:Look closer and see the hidden messages

"Who are they kidding?" :lol:

ElizabethSterling · Post by **ElizabethSterling** » 08 Feb 2011, 14:50

Glennerz wrote:

I like it. Especially the asymmetrical green/white 'go-faster' pattern.

midgrid wrote:Look closer and see the hidden messages

"Who are they kidding?"

I think it's a pig tbh... ugly, lumpy shape, blocks of flat colour that don't go together, too much white...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Feb 2011, 15:11

Force India looks a bit conservative. But if the Valencia test pace is real and this car is a good improvement on the other, maybe they can move up the field. The livery is what was expected, bearing in mind previous years, so nothing really new.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 08 Feb 2011, 15:18

mario wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:And they still have the Xtrac gearbox. It'll be a tough year for Virgin... but at least they have proven they have a new car.

Nick Wirth has said they deveoted a lot of development hours to sorting out the reliability problems. The hydraulics and gearbox all got a lot of work.

The MVR-02 might not look like a stunning evolution of the VR-01, but there are a lot of little things that they've got going. For one, they've managed to build the car around the original chassis length they used in 2010, and packaged it with an appropriately-sized fuel tank. Their sidepods are seriously undercut, and the intake vents themselves are quite small. They've legally routed the exhaust through the diffuser, and the front wing lookds very sophisticated in comparison to what they were running last year. The rear end might not be as tightly-wrapped as the likes of Red Bull and Williams, but it's tighter than most. They've even managed to get a pair of winglets into the space between the front wing uprights.

I suppose that the trend will be for teams to produce cars that are evolutions of the previous years car this year, but up and down the grid, there are interesting details when you look closer - from Mclaren's L shapoed sidepods, to the front exhausts of Renault, the massively undercut sidepods of the Toro Rosso car or the extreme packaging and mounting of the Williams gearbox and rear suspension. The MVR-02 does seem a little underwhelming as it stands, although I doubt that it will stay like this for long.

I have to agree, though, that they have done some nice work with the exhausts (it's a nice trick to blow through the starter motor hole, although they aren't alone in that - Ferrari seem to be blowing at least some of their exhaust gas through the starter hole too). They seem to have put a lot of effort into the front wing cascade elements, and I agree that there are some nice details there (like the swan neck connections on the beam wing), but for now this seems to be a sort of place holder until the first big upgrade package is ready for the start of the season.

It's interesting to see, though, that only Virgin Racing and HRT (assuming that the F111 do not change their design (and are still around) before the start of the season) are sticking with a low nose concept, whereas everybody else is moving towards a high nose design (with some, like Mercedes, taking that to the extreme). But, then again, when you start looking closer at the F111, you see that quite a few design elements seem to have been carried across from the F110 (the shape of the sidepods and sidepod air deflectors, and the nose of the car), so it isn't surprising that they have stuck with a low nose design.

The undercut sidepods of the Toro Rosso are very impressive. It's something that I thought about a few times before and wondered why no-one had done it. It's a bit like the Ferrari F92A (a personal favourite of mine) and the Ferrari F310. Interesting to see also that the McLaren incorporates the spacing between the sidepod and the monocoque that was also in both the F92A and F310.

JohnMLTX · Post by **JohnMLTX** » 08 Feb 2011, 17:46

Ross Prawn wrote:
JohnMLTX wrote:
watka wrote:I too am thinking that an all-CFD design is not a good idea. I mean it is different from all the other competitors but sure using 2 methods to determine aerodynamics is better than relying on one?

Its more to prove that they don't need a wind tunnel imo, and that they can rely on CFD. And who knows, maybe it'll become the main metjhod of design in a few years.

It could be argued that computational fluid dynamics with a Langrangian convergent rationalisation of the Navier-Stokes equations applicable to Newtonian, or indeed non-Newtonian, fluids allows better discrimination of separation and turbulent phenomena around the complex psuedo reality of a modern F1 system.

Or it could be they can't afford a wind tunnel.

The same design principle was used to decide that they would not use KERS.

First of all, brofist.

Second, the new virgin, HRT, and FI cars all look, well, fantastic.
Especially the HRT. (christ, never thought I'd say that.)
Even if Lotus, Virgin, and HRT are slow as hell next year, it'll be probably the most beautiful set of backmarkers.