Best drivers ever for each team

watka · Post by **watka** » 14 Nov 2009, 14:07

Hey, I thought it would be a good discussion to ask how you think if the best driver each team has ever had. This doesn't mean what is the best driver the team has ever produced, I mean who gave the most to the team when they actually drove for them. So for example, Alonso drove for Minardi and went on to win the world championship twice (so far), but in my opinion didn't do anything memorable at Minardi. So here are my picks:

Current teams:
Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn: Jackie Stewart
Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull: Mark Webber
McLaren: Ayrton Senna
Ferrari: Michael Schumacher
Toyota: Have they ever had a really good driver? Kamui Kobayashi
Sauber/BMW Sauber: Difficult one, but I'll go for Robert Kubica
Williams: Sorry guys, I'm going for Nigel Mansell. Alan Jones is a close second, I promise
Toleman/Benetton/Renault: Michael Schumacher, just over Alonso
Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India: Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Minardi/Toro Rosso: Pierluigi Martini, and no I didn't forget Vettel

Past teams:
Arrows: Damon Hill
Brabham: Jack Brabham
BRM: Graham Hill
Coloni: Ermmm, Gabriele Tarquini I suppose
EuroBrun: Oscar Larruari
Forti: Pedro Diniz
March/Leyton House: Ronnie Peterson
Ligier: Jacques Laffite
Lotus: Jim Clark
Osella/Fondmetal: Jean-Peirre Jarier
Pacific: Andrea Montermini
Rial: Andrea de Cesaris
Simtek: David Brabham

crazydude1992 · Post by **crazydude1992** » 14 Nov 2009, 16:58

I think that for Simtek Verstappen did more.

watka · Post by **watka** » 14 Nov 2009, 17:00

I went for David Brabham because he steadied the ship at Simtek after Ratzenberger died.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 14 Nov 2009, 17:08

To the former teams this one might be worth adding
Old Renault: Prost

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 14 Nov 2009, 17:41

Prost - Nakano (really Panis)
50s Alfa Romeo - Farina
80s Alfa Romeo - Giacomelli

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 14 Nov 2009, 17:58

watka wrote:Minardi/Toro Rosso: Pierluigi Martini, and no I didn't forget Vettel

I think you'll find you did forget Vettel

watka · Post by **watka** » 14 Nov 2009, 22:21

The 2008 Toro Rosso clearly wasn't a bad car, they came 6th in the constructors on merit. Martini never had the luxury of a good Minardi.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 14 Nov 2009, 22:56

watka wrote:The 2008 Toro Rosso clearly wasn't a bad car, they came 6th in the constructors on merit. Martini never had the luxury of a good Minardi.

And Vettel scored 35 of their 39 points - he was outdriving the car at least a bit, I think. Martini most certainly deserved a better crack of the F1 whip than he got, but I think Vettel was the better driver for the team.

Toyota: Have they ever had a really good driver? Kamui Kobayashi

I know that one's tongue in cheek and Koba brings the awesome in large servings, but to be fair to Trulli, nearly half of all the points that Toyota F1 have scored, have been scored by him.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 14 Nov 2009, 23:04

Enforcer wrote:
watka wrote:The 2008 Toro Rosso clearly wasn't a bad car, they came 6th in the constructors on merit. Martini never had the luxury of a good Minardi.

And Vettel scored 35 of their 39 points - he was outdriving the car at least a bit, I think. Martini most certainly deserved a better crack of the F1 whip than he got, but I think Vettel was the better driver for the team.

Toyota: Have they ever had a really good driver? Kamui Kobayashi

I know that one's tongue in cheek and Koba brings the awesome in large servings, but to be fair to Trulli, nearly half of all the points that Toyota F1 have scored, have been scored by him.

And without the Indy tyre debacle, who knows where Toyota would have been now?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 14 Nov 2009, 23:28

Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn - Jackie Stewart
Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull - Mark Webber
Mclaren - Ayrton Senna
Ferrari - Michael Schumacher
Toyota - Jarno Trulli (We haven't seen enough of Kobayashi)
Sauber/BMW - Nick Heidfeld
Williams - Alain Prost (We didn't see enough of Senna at Williams)
Toleman/Benetton/Renault - Michael Schumacher/Fernando Alonso
Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India - Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Minardi/Toro Rosso - Sebastian Vettel/Pierluigi Martini

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 15 Nov 2009, 00:37

Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn - Jackie Stewart
Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull - Mark Webber
Mclaren - Ayrton Senna
Ferrari - Michael Schumacher
Toyota - Jarno Trulli
Sauber/BMW - Robert Kubica
Williams - Alan Jones
Toleman/Benetton/Renault - Fernando Alonso
Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India - Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Minardi/Toro Rosso - Pierluigi Martini

Super Aguri - Takuma Sato
Arrows/Footwork - Riccardo Patrese
Ligier/Prost - Jacques Laffite
Mastercard Lola - Um, Vincenzo Sospiri?
Forti - Pedro Diniz
Pacific - Andrea Montermini
Simtek - Jos Verstappen
Venturi/Larrousse - Aguri Suzuki
Lotus - Jim Clark
Andrea Moda - Roberto Moreno
March/Leyton House - Ronnie Peterson
Osella/Fondmetal - Jean-Pierre Jarier
Scuderia Italia - JJ Lehto
Brabham - Jack Brabham
Lambo - Nicola Larini
Coloni - Gabriele Tarquini
AGS - Gabriele Tarquini
Life - Bruno Giacomelli, I guess
Onyx - Stefan Johansson
EuroBrun - Stefano Modena
Zakspeed - Martin Brundle
New(ish) Alfa Romeo - Andrea de Cesaris
Old Alfa Romeo - Juan Manuel Fangio
Spirit - Mauro Baldi
Old Renault - Alain Prost
RAM - Jonathan Palmer
ATS - Manfred Winkelhock
Theodore - Patrick Tambay
Fittipaldi - Emerson Fittipaldi
Ensign - Clay Regazzoni
Shadow - Alan Jones
Old Williams/Wolf - Jody Scheckter
Surtees - Jose Carlos Pace
Hesketh - James Hunt
BRM - Graham Hill
Matra - Jean-Pierre Beltoise
Eagle - Dan Gurney
Old Honda - John Surtees
Cooper - Jack Brabham
Maserati - Juan Manuel Fangio
Porsche - Dan Gurney

Enrique Bernoldi · Post by **Enrique Bernoldi** » 15 Nov 2009, 00:59

watka wrote:Past teams:
Arrows: Damon Hill

What about Eddie Cheever or Derek Warick? Damon only really had 1 great drive for Arrows.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 15 Nov 2009, 01:06

Enrique Bernoldi wrote:
watka wrote:Past teams:
Arrows: Damon Hill

What about Eddie Cheever or Derek Warick? Damon only really had 1 great drive for Arrows.

Two or three at least, that car wasn't anywhere near worthy of the 9th place he qualified it at Argentina (and ran 4th during the race). And his 6th at Silverstone was probably flattering it too. Cheever and Warick were in a relatively more competitve car at Arrows than Damon was, imo.

However, Patrese has the best case, he was on the podium 4 times for them when they spent most of their time DNFing.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 15 Nov 2009, 15:56

Minardi-HWNSNBM
Andrea Moda-Perry McCarthy
EuroBrun-Stefano Modena
Fondmetal-Eric van de Poele
Life-Gary Brabham
Toyota-Jarno Trulli
Jaguar-Mark Webber
Lola Haas-Alan Jones
Honda-Jenson Button

To name a few...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Nov 2009, 17:51

Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn - Jackie Stewart
Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull - Johnny Herbert
McLaren - Ayrton Senna
Ferrari - Alberto Ascari
Toyota - Olivier Panis
Sauber/BMW - Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Williams - Alain Prost
Toleman/Benetton/Renault - Fernando Alonso
Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India - Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Minardi/Toro Rosso - Sebastian Vettel

watka · Post by **watka** » 15 Nov 2009, 22:38

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Mastercard Lola - Um, Vincenzo Sospiri?

Well he did destroy Rosset in that one race weekend. Deserved more than he got imo.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 16 Nov 2009, 02:50

Merzario - Arturo Merzario :lol:

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 16 Nov 2009, 05:23

Current teams:
Tyrrell/BAR/Honda/Brawn: Sir Jackie
Stewart/Jaguar/Red Bull: Mark Webber
McLaren: Bruce McLaren, built 'em and raced 'em.
Ferrari: Michael Schumacher
Toyota: Jarno Trulli
Sauber/BMW: Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Iso Marlboro/Williams: Keke Rosberg
Toleman/Benetton/Renault: Michael Schumacher, again. He put the team on the map.
Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India: Heinz-Harald Frentzen. 1999 says it all.
Minardi/Toro Rosso: Pierluigi Martini

Past teams:
Arrows/Footwork: Eddie Cheever
BMS Scuderia Italia (Dallara/Lola): JJ Lehto
Brabham: Sir Jack
Andrea Moda/Coloni: Roberto Moreno
Forti: Roberto Moreno again
March/Leyton House ('87-'92): Ivan Capelli
Ligier: Jacques Laffite
Lotus: Jim Clark
Osella/Fondmetal: Piercarlo Ghinzani
Pacific: Bertrand Gachot
Rial: Andrea de Cesaris
Simtek: David Brabham

thehalford · Post by **thehalford** » 17 Nov 2009, 05:33

It's sad that when I was thinking of Brabham I skipped right past the founder of the team and straight away thought of Piquet... :oops:

Amon - Chris Amon (naturally)
Ligier - Jacques Laffite
Wolf - James Hunt
Shadow - Alan Jones

Most of the others I can think of have already been covered

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 17 Nov 2009, 05:36

AGS: Gabriele Tarquini

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 18 Nov 2009, 14:47

thehalford wrote:Wolf - James Hunt

Are you kidding? Jody Scheckter drove the hell out of Wolf in 77. He got to 2nd place in the WDC!!!

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 18 Nov 2009, 15:55

For Arrows, definitely Derek Warwick. As mentioned in another post, this was the guy that almost gave two victories for Arrows in 1989.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 18 Nov 2009, 16:00

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Andrea Moda - Roberto Moreno

Bah, the best Andrea Moda driver ever was certainly Perry McCarthy.

muttley · Post by **muttley** » 18 Nov 2009, 16:13

rffp wrote:For Arrows, definitely Derek Warwick. As mentioned in another post, this was the guy that almost gave two victories for Arrows in 1989.

Patrese got three second places with Arrows, including one in their debut year. Warwick didn't even get a podium.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:57

muttley wrote:
thehalford wrote:Wolf - James Hunt

Are you kidding? Jody Scheckter drove the hell out of Wolf in 77. He got to 2nd place in the WDC!!!

Didn't that technically not count though, because it was Wolf-Williams?

fondmetal-fond · Post by **fondmetal-fond** » 30 Nov 2009, 19:27

Jaguar: Eddie Irvine :shock:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 30 Nov 2009, 20:48

fondmetal-fond wrote:Jaguar: Eddie Irvine

It's clearly got to be Mark Webber.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 30 Nov 2009, 21:00

Waris wrote:
muttley wrote:
thehalford wrote:Wolf - James Hunt

Are you kidding? Jody Scheckter drove the hell out of Wolf in 77. He got to 2nd place in the WDC!!!

Didn't that technically not count though, because it was Wolf-Williams?

it was wolf-williams in 1976, in 1977 they've allready parted ways, with williams fielding a private march

acs · Post by **acs** » 11 Jan 2010, 00:19

Shadow - Alan Jones
Copersucar/ Fittipaldi - Emmo
Surtees - Mike Hailwood / Vittorio Brambilla
ATS - Manfred Winkelhock
Penske - John Watson
Maki - Howden Ganley
Lambo - Nicola Larini
Zakspeed - Martin Brundle
Osella - Eddie Cheever
Arrows - Riccardo Patrese
Toleman - Ayrton Senna
Embassy Hill - Tony Brise / Rolf Stommelen
Kojima - Masashiro Hasemi
Ensign - Clay Regazzoni
Theodore - Keke Rosberg
Boro - Larry Perkins
Tecno - Chris Amon
RAM - Rupert Keegan / Jonathan Palmer
Wolf - Jody Scheckter
Hesketh - James Hunt
Jordan - HH Frentzen
Token - Ian Ashley
Spirit - Mauro Baldi
Onyx - Stefan Johansson

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 15 May 2011, 08:25

This is based on what they actually did while at the said team, not based on his accomplishments elsewhere. WARNING: BIAS IS INEVITABLE

Active Teams:

Red Bull - Sebastian Vettel
McLaren - Ayrton Senna
Ferrari - Gilles Villeneuve
Mercedes - Nico Rosberg
Renault - Alain Prost
Williams - Nigel Mansell
Force India - Giancarlo Fisichella
Sauber - Kamui Kobayashi
Toro Rosso - Sebastian Vettel
Lotus* - Heikki Kovalainen
HRT - Christian Klien
Virgin - Timo Glock

*I don't count this Lotus as a continuation of Team Lotus 1994.

Ex-Teams:

AGS - Gabriele Tarquini
Alfa Romeo - Juan Manuel Fangio
Andrea Moda - Roberto Moreno
Arrows - Derek Warwick
ATS - Manfred Winkelhock
BAR - Jenson Button
Benetton - Michael Schumacher
Brabham - Jack Brabham
Brawn - Jenson Button
BRM - Graham Hill
Cooper - Jack Brabham
Fondmetal - Gabriele Tarquini
Forti - Luca Badoer
Hesketh - James Hunt
Honda - Richie Ginther
Jaguar - Mark Webber
Jordan - Rubens Barrichello
Larrousse - Eric Bernard
Leyton House - Ivan Capelli
Ligier - Jacques Laffite
Lotus - Ayrton Senna
March - Ivan Capelli
Minardi - Pierluigi Martini
Pacific - Bertrand Gachot
Prost - Olivier Panis
RAM - Manfred Winkelhock
Rial - Andrea de Cesaris
Simtek - Jos Verstappen
Stewart - Rubens Barrichello
Super Aguri - Takuma Sato
Toleman - Derek Warwick
Toyota - Jarno Trulli
Tyrrell - Stefan Bellof (of course)
Zakspeed - Jonathan Palmer

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 15 May 2011, 10:05

Lotus (FMT) - Heikki Kovalainen
Virgin - Timo Glock
HRT - Christian Klien
Super Aguri - Takuma Sato
Arrows - Derek Warwick
Simtek - David Brabham (just because he kept the team together in 1994)
Forti - Luca Badoer
Pacific - Bertrand Gachot
March/Leyton House - Ivan Capelli
Larrousse - Erik Comas
Coloni - Roberto Moreno
Eurobrun - Stefano Modena
Osella/Fondmetal - Piercarlo Ghinzani
Zakspeed - Martin Brundle
MasterCard Lola - Vincenzo Sospiri
Onyx/Monteverdi - Stefan Johansson
Rial - Andrea de Cesaris
AGS - Gabriele Tarquini

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 May 2011, 14:39

If we're counting the teams as separate identities when changing names (ie Stewart, Jaguar and Red Bull are not all the same team) then:

Current:

Red Bull: Vettel (though Coulthard deserves a lot of credit for their early years)
McLaren: Senna or Prost (can't decide)
Ferrari: Schumacher
Mercedes: Rosberg
Renault: Alonso
Williams: Mansell
Force India: Sutil
Sauber: Kobayashi
Toro Rosso: Vettel
Lotus: Kovalainen
Virgin: Glock
HRT: Chandhok I guess!

For 1993 - 2005 Sauber I'd say Frentzen and 1977 - 1985 Renault then Prost.

For former identites of current teams then:

Stewart: Barrichello
Jaguar: Irvine
BAR/Honda/Brawn: Button (all three of them)
Tyrrell: Stewart
Benetton: Schumacher
Jordan: Frentzen mainly for 1999
BMW-Sauber: Kubica
Minardi: Martini

I'll try on former teams later!

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 15 May 2011, 15:06

James1978 wrote:Red Bull: Vettel (though Coulthard deserves a lot of credit for their early years)
McLaren: Senna or Prost (can't decide)
Ferrari: Schumacher
Mercedes: Rosberg
Renault: Alonso
Williams: Mansell
Force India: Sutil
Sauber: Kobayashi
Toro Rosso: Vettel
Lotus: Kovalainen
Virgin: Glock
HRT: Chandhok I guess!

Yes, I agree with that effectively.

I'd probably give Force India to Fisichella, as he got their only podium and possibly could have won Monza if it wasn't for the lure of Ferrari.

Klien would be close to getting the HRT award as well.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 15 May 2011, 17:32

James1978 wrote:Mercedes: Rosberg

I reckon Juan Manuel Fangio was better...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 May 2011, 17:36

Oh of course! And Jim Clark for Lotus too, oops..........

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 17 May 2011, 13:08

Currently (This is F1 Rejects isnt it=)

Red Bull - Robert Doornbos
McLaren - Andrea de Cesaris
Ferrari - Giancarlo Fisichella
Mercedes - Schumacher
Renault - Patty Tambay
Williams - J.L. Schlessler
Force India - Vitantonio Liuzzi
Sauber - Norberto Fontana
Toro Rosso - Scott Speed
Lotus - Karum Chandok (crashing out on first lap in Friday Prac in Australia, I was there!)
HRT - Sakon Yamamoto
Virgin - Lucas di Grassi

Ex-Teams:

AGS - Joaquim Winkelhock
Arrows - Ricardo Rosset/Tora Takagi/Taki Inoue (take your pick)
BAR - Ricardo Zonta
Benetton - Emanuele Pirro
Brabham - Hard. Amalti (harsh), Brabham/Foitek/Modena?
Fondmetal - Andrea Chisea
Forti - Andrea Montermini
Jaguar - Luciano Burti
Jordan - Ralf Firman (cant have the Zsolt!)
Larrousse - Bertrand Gachot? Harsh
Leyton House - Hard
Ligier - Shinji Nakano/Lagorce/Bernard
Lotus - Michael Bartles/Julian Bailey/Adams?
Minardi - Giovanni Lavaggi
Pacific - Deletraz
Prost - Gaston Mazzacane
Simtek - Schiatarella (harsh)
Stewart - Jan Magnussen, the future F1 World Champion, his son might be more successful
Super Aguri - Yuji IDE
Toleman - Johnny Cecotto
Toyota - Rampaging Ralf Schumacher
Tyrrell - Ricardo Rosset
Zakspeed - The Hub, Huub Rotengather

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 May 2011, 15:16

David AGS wrote:Ferrari - Luca Badoer

Fixed.

Post by **mario** » 17 May 2011, 15:54

muttley wrote:
thehalford wrote:Wolf - James Hunt

Are you kidding? Jody Scheckter drove the hell out of Wolf in 77. He got to 2nd place in the WDC!!!

It's true that Scheckter was pretty competitive in 1977, but on the other hand the Wolf WR1 was designed by Dr. Harvey Postlethwaite, and the outfit managed by Peter Warr - both of whom were pretty big players in the sport at the time.
Scheckter did do very well to be so competitive, although there were a few mitigating factors that explained why the car was also pretty competitive at the time. He was helped out by the fact that the Lotus 78 was unreliable, and suffered from handling problems due to its overly forward aero balance, whilst Ferrari were struggling with getting enough heat into their tyres because Goodyear were designing their tyres for the Lotus 78 (with higher downforce, and therefore producing higher cornering loads). Meanwhile, the M26 from McLaren was late in arriving, and Hunt initially disliked the handling of the car, whilst the BT45 from Brabham was badly overweight thanks to the awkward to package and unreliable Alfa Romeo engine.

In those circumstances, there was a gap between the front runners to be exploited, and both Scheckter and Wolf Racing exploited that brilliantly - which isn't to say that Scheckter didn't drive brilliantly. He certainly did just that - given the opportunity, he took it with both hands, and did well.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 17 May 2011, 16:03

David AGS wrote:Minardi - HWNSNBM

Fixed!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 17 May 2011, 16:24

Apollon - Loris Kessel