2024 discussion thread

[Har1MAS1415]

Kevin Magnussen and Haas have decided to part ways at the end of this season. Esteban Ocon is most likely to take his seat in 2025.

Wonder how long it will take Ocon to butt heads with Bearman....

[sswishbone]

Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?

The negotiations seem to have taken place during the opening races of the season when Perez was still putting in reasonable performances.

There seems to have been an expectation that, with any potential distractions from the contract talks out of the way and a potential boost in confidence from signing that deal, Perez would maintain a more consistent level of performance. Instead, his performance declined after he signed that extension.

Rumours are already swirling that Perez has two races to save his seat... if there's even a remote sniff of truth to this, why sign an extension in the first place?

You would think that if they were giving Perez such an ultimatum that they already have someone in mind as a replacement. But I'm not sure that they do.

That's true - Ricciardo is reported to be under a bit of pressure himself over his performances, suggesting Red Bull might not be hugely confident he would be much better than Perez. The team also doesn't seem to think Tsunoda would be able to withstand the pressure associated with the role, and Lawson seems out of the question.

Some have proposed Sainz, but Jos sounds like he would do everything he could to avoid that, given how badly he reportedly got on with Sainz Sr. The lack of an appealing alternative is probably helping to keep Perez in that seat.

As a stop gap they could use Buemi. Or bring Kvyat back for the millionth time

[MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx]

Well that performance has hardly helped Perez increase his standing in the team's view has it?

[Paul Hayes]

One word for that one, I think... sour.

I don't remember ever hearing a pair of race engineers sound as done with their drivers as Norris's and Verstappen's today. Particularly GP, who usually backs Verstappen to the hilt with everything but by the end had clearly had enough of him, which was extraordinary.

McLaren's problem always looked to be coming as soon as they brought Norris in first. Perhaps it was inevitable, but they'll be glad it didn't cost them anything in the end.

It's been a while since we last saw an F1 car go as high in the air as Verstappen's and keep going. I was very surprised he was able to bring that home.

[mario]

One word for that one, I think... sour.

I don't remember ever hearing a pair of race engineers sound as done with their drivers as Norris's and Verstappen's today. Particularly GP, who usually backs Verstappen to the hilt with everything but by the end had clearly had enough of him, which was extraordinary.

McLaren's problem always looked to be coming as soon as they brought Norris in first. Perhaps it was inevitable, but they'll be glad it didn't cost them anything in the end.

It's been a while since we last saw an F1 car go as high in the air as Verstappen's and keep going. I was very surprised he was able to bring that home.

True, and it's also a bit surprising that Hamilton was able to keep going despite what must have been a pretty hefty blow to his car too - you'd have normally expected that to end with broken suspension for both drivers.

I agree that was probably the most fed up that GP has sounded on the radio with Verstappen, especially at the end when he called it "childish" to try and fight with other teams over the radio.

[IceG]

Do we now have 13 race-winners on the grid? Everyone from the top five teams minus Stroll, plus Gasly, Bottas, Ricciardo and Ocon.

Is this a record?

[mario]

Do we now have 13 race-winners on the grid? Everyone from the top five teams minus Stroll, plus Gasly, Bottas, Ricciardo and Ocon.

Is this a record?

It looks like others have also asked that question, and have worked out that the 1978 season had more race winning drivers on the grid (15).

[dr-baker]

So, thanks to McLaren team orders, Perez is the only driver from the top 4 teams yet to win a race in 2024, whilst his teammate is currently the only multiple race winner, at 7. Yet Perez is still ahead of Russell in the Drivers Championship.

[Har1MAS1415]

We've now had 7 race winners in 2024, the most since 2012, when there were 8 different winners.

[Paul Hayes]

True, and it's also a bit surprising that Hamilton was able to keep going despite what must have been a pretty hefty blow to his car too - you'd have normally expected that to end with broken suspension for both drivers.

Yes, my immediate assumption when the crash first happened was that they were both going to be out.

[Paul Hayes]

We've now had 7 race winners in 2024, the most since 2012, when there were 8 different winners.

Two Ferraris, two Red Bulls, two McLarens, Rosberg in the Mercedes, and Raikkonen in whatever the Enstone team was called that week?

[Har1MAS1415]

We've now had 7 race winners in 2024, the most since 2012, when there were 8 different winners.

Two Ferraris, two Red Bulls, two McLarens, Rosberg in the Mercedes, and Raikkonen in whatever the Enstone team was called that week?

I believe they were pretending to be Lotus that year...

[Har1MAS1415]

We've now had 7 race winners in 2024, the most since 2012, when there were 8 different winners.

Two Ferraris, two Red Bulls, two McLarens, Rosberg in the Mercedes, and Raikkonen in whatever the Enstone team was called that week?

Actually it was both Red Bulls, both McLarens, Nico for Merc, Nando for Ferrari, Kimi for Team Enstone and Maldonado for Williams.

[sswishbone]

We don't yet have a 2025 thread, but this would be a good starter...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... vg0zpyn5zo

[Har1MAS1415]

We don't yet have a 2025 thread, but this would be a good starter...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... vg0zpyn5zo

Sauber have actually officially performed worse than they did 10 years ago so far.

2014 Best Result(s): 2 x 11th 1 x 12th
2024 Best after 13 races is an 11th and 3 13ths

[Paul Hayes]

Actually it was both Red Bulls, both McLarens, Nico for Merc, Nando for Ferrari, Kimi for Team Enstone and Maldonado for Williams.

Ah yes, of course!

[Har1MAS1415]

Actually it was both Red Bulls, both McLarens, Nico for Merc, Nando for Ferrari, Kimi for Team Enstone and Maldonado for Williams.

Ah yes, of course!

With better luck. Perez and Hulk might have won a race that year too.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Actually it was both Red Bulls, both McLarens, Nico for Merc, Nando for Ferrari, Kimi for Team Enstone and Maldonado for Williams.

Ah yes, of course!

With better luck. Perez and Hulk might have won a race that year too.

I think Grosjean retired from the lead of a race as well, though that might have been 2013...

[mario]

Ah yes, of course!

With better luck. Perez and Hulk might have won a race that year too.

I think Grosjean retired from the lead of a race as well, though that might have been 2013...

Grosjean has lead a total of 40 laps across seven races (the Bahrain, Canadian and Hungarian GPs in 2012, and the German, Hungarian, Japanese and US GPs in 2013). However, Grosjean finished every one of those races and, with the exception of the 2013 Hungarian GP, he finished on the podium in those races.

Out of the three races that Grosjean lead in 2012, he finished in 3rd in Bahrain and Hungary (with Kimi ahead of him in both cases). The closest he came to winning one of those races in 2012 was the Canadian GP, where he finished in 2nd place and was only about 2.5 seconds behind Hamilton.

[James1978]

The race you could be thinking of about Grosjean was possibly Valencia 2012 - I think he was about to inherit the lead from Vettel (or be a very close 2nd behind Alonso, I can't quite remember which) when him and Vettel had just about simultaneous alternator failures.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

The race you could be thinking of about Grosjean was possibly Valencia 2012 - I think he was about to inherit the lead from Vettel (or be a very close 2nd behind Alonso, I can't quite remember which) when him and Vettel had just about simultaneous alternator failures.

That's the one! So it wasn't from the lead, but when I saw Vettel pull off I was like YES! and then NO!

[Har1MAS1415]

The race you could be thinking of about Grosjean was possibly Valencia 2012 - I think he was about to inherit the lead from Vettel (or be a very close 2nd behind Alonso, I can't quite remember which) when him and Vettel had just about simultaneous alternator failures.

That's the one! So it wasn't from the lead, but when I saw Vettel pull off I was like YES! and then NO!

So a repeat of 1982 could have happened after all...

[Paul Hayes]

So a repeat of 1982 could have happened after all...

Not sure we'll ever get a one-win world champion again, though!

[Paul Hayes]

Wow - what a performance from George. It did look as if his strategy would get him up onto the podium, but I imagine like most people I fully expected Hamilton to blast past him pretty easily on those much fresher tyres. But I guess George just kept enough in them to have something left at the end. Very nice for him to have a win that was *so* much down to him so soon after the one which fell into his lap, too.

There'll doubtless be a few others after this wondering why they didn't try a one-stop, too.

[Paul Hayes]

And then...

Heartbreaking for Russell. That one's *really* got to hurt. Getting disqualified for being underweight in this day and age... And on today of all days.

[IceG]

Does Sainz' signing for Williams really mean that both drivers are appendixless - what a weight-saving strategy

[Paul Hayes]

That's some gamble from Sainz that the current Williams project is going to pay off. But I suppose it would have been a similar gamble with any of his remaining options, really.

[mario]

That's some gamble from Sainz that the current Williams project is going to pay off. But I suppose it would have been a similar gamble with any of his remaining options, really.

It may be the case that he thinks Williams is the least bad option he had available from Alpine, Audi and Williams, given that the first two on that list are not the most stable of teams.

The former, after all, is reportedly on the brink of ditching their engine programme for 2026, which seems to be creating considerable disquiet within the team, whilst Audi has recently also seen major changes with Binotto being brought in, reportedly because Seidl and Hoffmann were fighting each other so much that the only way it could be resolved was getting rid of both of them. Williams might not be as resource rich as those teams, but it doesn't have the same issues with internal instability that those teams have.

[James1978]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sainz going to Williams means I think he's the 1st driver to drive for all 4 of the 90s "Big Four", i.e. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and "Team Enstone" (i.e. Toleman, Benetton, Renault, Lotus, and Alpine). Been wanting someone to do that for 30 years!!

[mario]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sainz going to Williams means I think he's the 1st driver to drive for all 4 of the 90s "Big Four", i.e. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and "Team Enstone" (i.e. Toleman, Benetton, Renault, Lotus, and Alpine). Been wanting someone to do that for 30 years!!

I think you are right - there are a few drivers who managed to tick off three of those, such as Mansell, but I don't think anyone managed all four of those teams.

[Har1MAS1415]

So a repeat of 1982 could have happened after all...

Not sure we'll ever get a one-win world champion again, though!

No way! Though we came close in 2003 with Kimi and Kubica might have stood a chance in 2008.

[Wallio]

I can't say I understand going to Williams at all. In terms of 10 seats, they are firmly 9th, and could even be passed by Alpine if they sell out. But, it's easy to second guess from over here.

[sswishbone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sainz going to Williams means I think he's the 1st driver to drive for all 4 of the 90s "Big Four", i.e. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and "Team Enstone" (i.e. Toleman, Benetton, Renault, Lotus, and Alpine). Been wanting someone to do that for 30 years!!

Didn't Prost do this? He drove for Renault, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams. Unless 80's Renault weren't part of Enstone of course

[dr-baker]

When did Sainz drive for McLaren? I don't remember that.

[James1978]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sainz going to Williams means I think he's the 1st driver to drive for all 4 of the 90s "Big Four", i.e. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and "Team Enstone" (i.e. Toleman, Benetton, Renault, Lotus, and Alpine). Been wanting someone to do that for 30 years!!

Didn't Prost do this? He drove for Renault, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams. Unless 80's Renault weren't part of Enstone of course

The late 70s/early 80s Renault were not Team Enstone. I know the water gets a bit muddy with there being 2 different versions of Renault but obviously I'm thinking for 10 (?) years the top 4 in the constructors were always in some order Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Benetton. Then Renault took over Benetton in 2002.

It's even more confusing with the 3 different versions of Lotus!! (Original Colin Chapman Lotus, Enstone Lotus and Caterham Lotus)!

[James1978]

When did Sainz drive for McLaren? I don't remember that.

2019 and 2020 (between Renault and Ferrari). It's where "Carlando" stemmed from when they were teammates

[Wallio]

2020 was such a strange season, for a whole number of reasons.

[dr-baker]

When did Sainz drive for McLaren? I don't remember that.

2019 and 2020 (between Renault and Ferrari). It's where "Carlando" stemmed from when they were teammates

It's odd, it was immediately before his Ferrari stint but it seems as memorable as Villeneuve driving for Sauber...

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

When did Sainz drive for McLaren? I don't remember that.

2019 and 2020 (between Renault and Ferrari). It's where "Carlando" stemmed from when they were teammates

It's odd, it was immediately before his Ferrari stint but it seems as memorable as Villeneuve driving for Sauber...

It's weird, to me, that you think that, because it was his Renault season that I'd forgotten about, I thought his McLaren seasons were more memorable.

[dr-baker]

2019 and 2020 (between Renault and Ferrari). It's where "Carlando" stemmed from when they were teammates

It's odd, it was immediately before his Ferrari stint but it seems as memorable as Villeneuve driving for Sauber...

It's weird, to me, that you think that, because it was his Renault season that I'd forgotten about, I thought his McLaren seasons were more memorable.

Either way, I think his Toro Rosso days and his Ferrari days are more memorable than his days at Renault or McLaren.