Grand Prix Rejects

Posted: **24 Nov 2010, 13:34**

2009

position  Driver               Team        car number  points total  revised total  original position
1st       Jenson Button        Brawn       22          95            2090           1st
2nd       Rubens Barrichello   Brawn       23          77            1771           3rd
3rd       Sebastian Vettel     Red Bull    15          84            1260           2nd
4th       Mark Webber          Red Bull    14          69.5          973            4th
5th       Nico Rosberg         Williams    16          34.5          552            7th
6th       Jarno Trulli         Toyota      9           32.5          292.5          8th
7th       Timo Glock           Toyota      10          24            240            10th
8th       Kimi Raikkonen       Ferrari     4           48            192            6th
9th       Fernando Alonso      Renault     7           26            182            9th
10th      Giancarlo Fisichella Force India 21          8             168            15th

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11th      Nick Heidfeld        BMW Sauber  6           19            114            13th
12th      Adrian Sutil         Force India 20          5             100            17th
13th      Robert Kubica        BMW Sauber  5           17            85             14th
14th      Sebastien Buemi      Toro Rosso  12          6             72             16th
15th      Felipe Massa         Ferrari     3           22            66             11th=
16th      Lewis Hamilton       McLaren     1           49            49             5th
17th      Heikki Kovalainen    McLaren     2           22            44             11th=
18th      Kamui Kobayashi      Toyota      10          3             30             18th
19th      Sebastien Bourdais   Toro Rosso  11          2             22             19th

Lewis Hamilton loses 11 places while Adrian Sutil gains 5. And (spoiler alert!) both Lewis in 2008 and Jenson in 2009 each score more than the 2010 winner will score in 2010, despite the change in the points system!

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1st   Brawn       2090 + 1771      3861
2nd   Red Bull    1260 + 973       2233
3rd   Toyota      292.5 + 240 + 30 562.5
4th   Williams    552              552
5th   Force India 168 + 100        268
6th   Ferrari     192 + 66         258
7th   BMW Sauber  114 + 85         199
8th   Renault     182              182
9th   Toro Rosso  72 + 22          94
10th  McLaren     49 + 44          93

A terrible season for McLaren. Bad for Renault and Ferrari. Good for Force India. Brawn may have scored 500 points more than McLaren did the year before, but Red Bull provided closer competition to the dominant team this year.

Posted: **24 Nov 2010, 13:42**

2010

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position  Driver             Team        car number  points total  revised total  original position
1st       Fernando Alonso    Ferrari     8           252           2016           2nd
2nd       Robert Kubica      Renault     11          136           1496           8th
3rd       Mark Webber        Red Bull    6           242           1452           3rd
4th       Sebastian Vettel   Red Bull    5           256           1280           1st
5th       Felipe Massa       Ferrari     7           144           1008           6th
6th       Kamui Kobayashi    BMW Sauber  23          32            736            12th
7th       Adrian Sutil       Force India 14          47            658            10th=
8th       Nico Rosberg       Mercedes    4           142           568            7th
9th       Lewis Hamilton     McLaren     2           240           480            4th
10th      Rubens Barrichello Williams    9           47            423            10th=

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11th      Vitaly Petrov      Renault     12          27            324            13th
12th      Vintantonio Liuzzi Force India 15          21            315            15th
13th      Nico Hulkenberg    Williams    10          22            220            14th
14th      Michael Schumacher Mercedes    3           72            216            9th
15th      Jenson Button      McLaren     1           214           214            5th
16th=     Pedro de la Rosa   BMW Sauber  22          6             132            17th=
16th=     Nick Heidfeld      BMW Sauber  22          6             132            17th=
18th      Sebastien Buemi    Toro Rosso  16          8             128            16th
19th      Jaime Alguersuari  Toro Rosso  17          5             85             19th

Robert Kubica has a competitive season. The two Red Bull drivers lose out, but not as much as the McLaren drivers, suffering from the problems every team running a defending world champion suffers. And if Mercedes had run with Rosberg in 3 and Schumacher in 4, Rosberg would have lost several positions while Schumi would only have gained one so Schumi was right for the good of the team to demand the swapping of numbers before the start of the season.

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1st   Ferrari     2016 + 1008     3024
2nd   Red Bull    1452 + 1280     2732
3rd   Renault     1496 + 324      1820
4th   BMW Sauber  736 + 132 + 132 1000
5th   Force India 658 + 315       973
6th   Mercedes    568 + 216       784
7th   McLaren     480 + 214       694
8th   Williams    423 + 220       643
9th   Toro Rosso  128 + 85        213

McLaren lose out as would be expected. Sauber gain from carrying 22 and 23, as McLaren did 2 years ago and Brawn did last year, albeit not to the same degree.

Posted: **24 Nov 2010, 14:04**

Overall winners

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Year    Winner                  car no. Points  Original position
1996    Damon Hill              5       485     1st
1997    David Coulthard         10      360     3rd=
1998    Mika Hakkinen           8       800     1st
1999    Heinz-Harald Frentzen   8       432     3rd
2000    Jacques Villeneuve      22      374     7th

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2001    David Coulthard         4       260     2nd
2002    Juan-Pablo Montoya      6       300     3rd
2003    Kimi Raikkonen          6       546     2nd
2004    Jenson Button           9       765     3rd
2005    Kimi Raikkonen          9       1008    2nd
2006    Jenson Button           12      672     6th
2007    Kimi Raikkonen          6       660     1st
2008    Lewis Hamilton          22      2156    1st
2009    Jenson Button           22      2090    1st
2010    Fernando Alonso         8       2016   2nd

Meaning the following drivers have the following number of titles:

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Kimi Raikkonen          3
Jenson Button           3
David Coulthard         2
Damon Hill              1
Mika Hakkinen           1
Heinz-Harald Frentzen   1
Jacques Villeneuve      1
Juan-Pablo Montoya      1
Lewis Hamilton          1
Fernando Alonso         1
Michael Schumacher      0

Now, for a long time, I have been a Button fan and not liked Schumacher much at all, but I wasn't quite expecting this. (Ok, I was expecting to remove a lot of Schumi's titles, but I thought he might have got one at least between 1997 and 2000). And Raikkonen gains several titles too. Might he have lost motivation sooner under this system, or might it have achieved the opposite?

So which car number would one need to win this? 22?

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So who's likely to win it next year? Ferrari will carry numbers 5 & 6, the most successful pair of numbers, despite 5 not winning since 1996. Mercedes have a chance with 7 & 8 (at least whoever has the no. 8 does...) while Renault can't be ruled out with 9 & 10. And I reckon HRT are on course to carry number 22 for next year...

Posted: **24 Nov 2010, 17:52**

Kobayashi ahead of both Mclarens!!!! :lol:

Posted: **24 Nov 2010, 18:54**

James1978 wrote:Kobayashi ahead of both Mclarens!!!!

This year? Yes!

Posted: **25 Nov 2010, 16:10**

Should I continue this throughout the 2011 season and beyond?

Posted: **25 Nov 2010, 16:39**

Of course!

Posted: **25 Nov 2010, 16:40**

Good. So I have something to do next year!

Posted: **27 Nov 2010, 21:48**

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
tommykl wrote:Should I eventually do this from 1950 to 1995 after I finish the medals (if it gets enough votes, of course)?

There's no point in doing this before 1996 because of the different car numbering system before that point.

Plus, it means Ferrari will pretty much dominate the 80's and 90's unopposed.

I am going to attempt 1991 - 1995 tomorrow to ensure that Michael Schumacher never wins under this system and to see whether Sauber could beat Ferrari (Ferrari carried 27 and 28, Sauber carried 29 and 30).

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 06:45**

I already explained that if I eventually do it, I'll use a modified number system.

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 10:34**

tommykl wrote:I already explained that if I eventually do it, I'll use a modified number system.

Yes, that's why I am NOT using a modified number system working backwards. I just want to see that I have removed all 7 of Schumacher's titles from him using this and to see if Ferrari or Sauber are more dominant. And it's only the 4 years that I am doing. Don't mean to be treading on any toes!

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 11:00**

dr-baker wrote:
tommykl wrote:I already explained that if I eventually do it, I'll use a modified number system.

Yes, that's why I am NOT using a modified number system working backwards. I just want to see that I have removed all 7 of Schumacher's titles from him using this and to see if Ferrari or Sauber are more dominant. And it's only the 4 years that I am doing. Don't mean to be treading on any toes!

That's alright, then.
[self publicity]And don't forget to vote on my next alternative championship in the FORCWSOGMM Thread![/self publicity]

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 16:27**

If you're using real numbers, then shouldn't Schumacher win in 1992, becuase he drove car #19?

It was only in 1993 Benetton changed to 5 and 6. Ferrari won't be anywhere near becuase they sucked that year!

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 17:23**

James1978 wrote:If you're using real numbers, then shouldn't Schumacher win in 1992, becuase he drove car #19?

It was only in 1993 Benetton changed to 5 and 6. Ferrari won't be anywhere near becuase they sucked that year!

I have just worked out 1995, '94 and '93. Ferrari win the constructors in 1993, but not the drivers - and it isn't a Sauber either! And Schumacher in 1992? Damn you if you're right!

Will post results in the next day or two, once I finish working it all out.

Posted: **28 Nov 2010, 20:47**

James1978 wrote:If you're using real numbers, then shouldn't Schumacher win in 1992, becuase he drove car #19?

It was only in 1993 Benetton changed to 5 and 6. Ferrari won't be anywhere near becuase they sucked that year!

Damn, you were right. When I saw that Berger was origianlly 5th on 49 points (where Schumi was 3rd with 53 points), I thought he had a chance, thinking he was a Ferrari driver. Which he was. For the following few years. But not in 1992!

I know tommykl is going through from the start with some reallocated numbers. And I know I said I was only going back a few years to try and eliminate all of Schumi's titles, but that didn't work. So once I have posted these results, if I am bored in the run-up to Christmas, I may see how many titles Prost and Senna did or didn't win. Then I might possibly see if Gilles Villeneuve ever wins under this. AND THAT WILL BE AS FAR AS I GO. I don't have much interest before that. And it would start being too much work doing it race-by-race where they have different numbers each Grand Prix.

EDIT: 1974 is the first year where drivers carried the same number throughout the whole season (provided they stayed with the same team!). So that really would be as early as I would go.

Posted: **30 Nov 2010, 19:50**

OK, so I have worked out the years 1992 to 1995, using the numbers that were actually allocated to the drivers and teams in those years. And it wasn't always a Ferrari benefit. In fact, of the four years, Ferrari only won two of the four Drivers Championships. The point was to discover whether I could eliminate all of Schumacher's titles from him. I couldn't. But Senna still wins a title himself. I will not go back any further because I can't be bothered with the dropped scores that existed pre-1991. Might still do 1991 later to see if Prost could win that one.

1995

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new position Driver                  Team      car number  points total   revised total  original position
1st          Jean Alesi              Ferrari   27          42           1134           5th
2nd          Gerhard Berger          Ferrari   28          31           868            6th
3rd          Heinz-Harald Frentzen   Sauber    30          15           450            9th
4th          Olivier Panis           Ligier    26          16           416            8th
5th          Damon Hill              Williams  5           69           345            2nd
6th          David Coulthard         Williams  6           49           294            3rd
7th          Martin Brundle          Ligier    25          7            175            13th
8th          Rubens Barrichello      Jordan    14          11           154            11th
9th          Eddie Irvine            Jordan    15          10           150            12th
10th         Mika Hakkinen           McLaren   8           17           136            7th

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11th         Michael Schumacher      Benetton  1           102          102            1st
12th         Mark Blundell           McLaren   7           13           91             10th
13th         Johnny Herbert          Benetton  2           45           90             4th
14th         Jean-Christophe Bullion Sauber    29          3            87             16th
15th         Gianni Morbedelli       Footwork  9           5            45             14th=
16th         Aguri Suzuki            Ligier    25          1            25             17th=
17th         Pedro Lamy              Minardi   23          1            23             17th=
18th         Mika Salo               Tyrrell   4           5            20             14th=

Jean Alesi wins this one, with his Ferrari teammate in 2nd. A year of ease for Ferrari, scoring twice as many points as the next nearest team.

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1st  Ferrari   1134 + 868      2002         
2nd  Williams  345 + 294       639         
3rd  Ligier    416 + 175 + 25  616         
4th  Sauber    450 + 87        537         
5th  Jordan    154 + 150       304         
6th  McLaren   136 + 91        227         
7th  Benetton  102 + 90        192         
8th  Footwork  45              45         
9th  Minardi   23              23         
10th Tyrrell   20              20

Posted: **30 Nov 2010, 19:53**

1994

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new position  Driver                Team      car number  points total  revised total  original position
1st           Gerhard Berger        Ferrari   28          41            1148           3rd
2nd           Jean Alesi            Ferrari   27          24            648            5th
3rd           Michael Schumacher    Benetton  5           92            460            1st
4th           Rubens Barrichello    Jordan    14          19            266            6th
5th           Olivier Panis         Ligier    26          9             234            11th
6th           Heinz-Harald Frentzen Sauber    30          7             210            13th
7th           Mika Hakkinen         McLaren   7           26            182            4th
8th           Nicola Larini         Ferrari   27          6             162            14th=
9th           Martin Brundle        McLaren   8           16            128            7th
10th          Karl Wendlinger       Sauber    29          4             116            18th=

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11th          Eric Bernard          Ligier    25          4             100            18th=
12th          Pierluigi Martini       Minardi   23          4             92             18th=
13th          Eddie Irvine          Jordan    15          6             90             14th=
14th          Andrea de Cesaris                           4             74             18th=
                                    (Jordan   15          3             45)   
                                    (Sauber   29          1             29)   
15th          Jos Verstappen        Benetton  6           10            60             10th
16th          Christian Fittipaldi  Footwork  9           6             54             14th=
17th          Erik Comas            Larrousse 20          2             40             23rd
18th          Mark Blundell         Tyrrell   4           8             32             12th
19th=         Gianni Morbidelli     Footwork  10          3             30             22nd
19th=         David Coulthard       Williams  2           14            28             8th

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21st          Nigel Mansell         Williams  2           13            26             9th
22nd          Michele Alboreto      Minardi   24          1             24             25th
23rd          Ukyo Katayama         Tyrrell   3           5             15             17th
24th          JJ Lehto              Benetton  6           1             6              24th
25th          Damon Hill            Williams  0           91            0              2nd

Another dominant year for Ferrari, this time scoring around 4 times as many points as the eventual real-life champions. And poor old Damon Hill...

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1st  Ferrari   1148 + 648 + 162 1958         
2nd  Benetton  460 + 60 + 6     526         
3rd  Jordan    266 + 90 + 45    401         
4th  Ligier    234 + 100        334         
5th  McLaren   182 + 128        310         
6th  Sauber    210 + 29         239         
7th  Minardi   92 + 24          116         
8th  Footwork  54 + 30          84         
9th  Williams  28 + 26          54         
10th Tyrrell   32 + 15          47         
11th Larrousse 40               40

Posted: **30 Nov 2010, 19:56**

OK, so two out of the four Ferrari titles have already been awarded. So who wins it in 1993? Ayrton Senna, but Ferrari still wins the Constructors Championship. If Andretti had been a more successful driver...

1993

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new position  Driver               Team      car number points total  revised total  original position
1st           Ayrton Senna         McLaren   8           73            584            2nd
2nd           Jean Alesi           Ferrari   27         16            432            6th
3rd           Gerhard Berger       Ferrari   28         12            336            8th
4th           Martin Brundle       Ligier    25         13            325            7th
5th=          Michael Schumacher   Benetton  5          52            260            4th
5th=          Mark Blundell        Ligier    26         10            260            10th
7th           Karl Wendlinger      Sauber    29         7             203            11th=
8th           Alain Prost          Williams  2          99            198            1st
9th           JJ Lehto             Sauber    30         5             150            13th=
10th          Johnny Herbert       Lotus     12         11            132            9th

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11th          Riccardo Patrese     Benetton  6          20            120            5th
12th          Christian Fittipaldi Minardi   23         5             115            13th=
13th          Michael Andretti     McLaren   7          7             49             11th=
14th          Fabrizio Barbazza    Minardi   24         2             48             17th=
15th          Phillipe Alliott     Larrousse 19         2             38             17th=
16th          Derek Warwick        Footwork  9          4             36             15th=
17th=         Mika Hakkinen        McLaren   7          4             28             15th=
17th=         Rubens Barrichello   Jordan    14         2             28             17th=
19th          Erik Comas           Larrousse 20         1             20             20th=
20th          Eddie Irvine         Jordan    15         1             15             20th=
21st          Alessandro Zanardi   Lotus     11         1             11             20th=
22nd          Damon Hill           Williams  0          69            0              3rd

And another terrible year for Damon...

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1st   Ferrari   432 + 336       768         
2nd   McLaren   584 + 49 + 28   661         
3rd   Ligier    325 + 260       585         
4th   Benetton  260 + 120       380         
5th   Sauber    203 + 150       353         
6th   Williams  198             198         
7th   Minardi   115 + 48        163         
8th   Lotus     132 + 11        143         
9th   Larrousse 38 + 20         58         
10th  Jordan    28 + 15         43         
11th  Footwork  36              36

Posted: **30 Nov 2010, 20:00**

1992

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new position  Driver               Team             car number  points total  revised total  original position
1st           Michael Schumacher   Benetton         19          53            1007           3rd
2nd           Martin Brundle       Benetton         20          38            760            6th
3rd           Nigel Mansell        Williams         5           108           540            1st
4th           Jean Alesi           Ferrari          27          18            486            7th
5th           Riccardo Patrese     Williams         6           56            336            2nd
6th           Mika Hakkinen        Lotus            11          11            121            8th
7th           Erik Comas           Ligier           26          4             104            11th
8th           Gerhard Berger       McLaren          2           49            98             5th
9th           Ivan Capelli         Ferrari          28          3             84             12th=
10th          Michele Alboreto     Footwork         9           6             54             10th

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11th=         Ayrton Senna         McLaren          1           50            50             4th
11th=         Thierry Boutsen      Ligier           25          2             50             14th=
13th          Karl Wendlinger      March            16          3             48             12th=
14th          Pierluigi Martini    Scuderia Italia  22          2             44             14th=
15th=         Andrea de Cesaris    Tyrrell          4           8             32             9th
15th=         Stefano Modena       Jordan           32          1             32             17th=
17th          Bertrand Gachot      Larrousse        29          1             29             17th=
18th          Johnny Herbert       Lotus            12          2             24             14th=
19th          Christian Fittipaldi Minardi          23          1             23             17th=

Ferrari have a low-scoring season, which their high car numbers just are not capable of masking. That, and Benetton having numbers to their advantage. But at least in this system, Schumacher has only been able to win one title, not 7.

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1st   Benetton          1007 + 760  1767         
2nd   Williams          540 + 336   876         
3rd   Ferrari           486 + 84    570         
4th   Ligier            104 + 50    154         
5th   McLaren           98 + 50     148         
6th   Lotus             121 + 24    145         
7th   Footwork          54          54         
8th   March             48          48         
9th   Scuderia Italia   44          44         
10th= Tyrrell           32          32         
10th= Jordan            32          32         
12th  Larrousse         29          29         
13th  Minardi           23          23

Posted: **30 Nov 2010, 21:19**

Ayrton Senna won this championship in his final season, Alain Prost wins it in his penultimate season. And Minardi finish 6th in the Constructors Championship with only Matini scoring! If he had a teammate that could have scored just half his total, Minardi would have beaten McLaren! Never mind, this was still Minardi's best season under this system.

1991

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new position  Driver            Team            car number  points total  revised total  original position
1st           Alain Prost       Ferrari         27          34            918            5th
2nd           Jean Alesi        Ferrari         28          21            588            7th
3rd           Nelson Piquet     Benetton        20          26.5          530            6th
4th           Nigel Mansell     Williams        5           72            360            2nd
5th           Riccardo Patrese  Williams        6           53            318            3rd
6th           Andrea de Cesaris Jordan          33          9             297            9th
7th           Roberto Moreno    Benetton        19          8             152            10th
8th           Pierluigi Martini Minardi         23          6             138            11th
9th           Bertrand Gachot   Jordan          32          4             128            13th
10th          Ayrton Senna      McLaren         1           96            96             1st

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11th          JJ Lehto          Scuderia Italia 22          4             88             12th
12th          Gerhard Berger    McLaren         2           43            86             4th
13th          Michael SchumacherBenetton        19          4             76             14th
14th          Stefano Modena    Tyrrell         4           10            40             8th
15th          Aguri Suzuki      Larrousse       30          1             30             22nd
16th          Eric Bernard      Larrousse       29          1             29             21st
17th          Mika Hakkinen     Lotus           11          2             22             16th
18th          Emanuele Pirro    Scuderia Italia 21          1             21             18th
19th          Ivan Capelli      Leyton House    16          1             16             20th
20th          Martin Brundle    Brabham         7           2             14             17th

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21st          Gianni Morbidelli Ferrari         27          0.5           13.5           24th
22nd          Julian Bailey     Lotus           12          1             12             23rd
23rd          Mark Blundell     Brabham         8           1             8              19th 
24th          Satoru Nakajima   Tyrrell         3           2             6              15th

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1st   Ferrari         918 + 588 + 13.5  1519.5         
2nd   Benetton        530 + 152 + 76    758         
3rd   Williams        360 + 318         678         
4th   Jordan          297 + 128         425         
5th   McLaren         96 + 86           182         
6th   Minardi         138               138         
7th   Scuderia Italia 88 + 21           109         
8th   Larrousse       30 + 29           59         
9th   Tyrrell         40 + 6            46         
10th  Lotus           22 + 12           34         
11th  Brabham         14 + 8            22         
12th  Leyton House    16                16

OK, so that really is the end of what I shall calculate. Including the 1991 - 1995 period (where the number allocation was clearly different), the only two drivers I have deprived a championship from altogether are Mansell and Vettel. Mansell may have won the 1989 title for all I know and Vettel still has a future chance, but clearly not in 2011, carrying car number 1. Anyway, tommykl, over to you for your redistributed car number system, and I shall resume this in 2011 for the 2011 season. 1950 to 1990 inclusive shall remain untouched by me. (If somebody wants to work out the other years with their actual points and car numbers, be my guest.)

Posted: **04 Dec 2010, 09:37**

I'll do it once I get enough votes for it. As I said, I'm not practically capable of doing more than 2 championships at once.

Posted: **04 Dec 2010, 10:20**

Fair enough.

Posted: **27 Mar 2011, 21:02**

I'm just going to continue this season race-by-race in this thread.

Before the Saubers' DSQ.

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Position   Driver        Points  Car no.   New total  Adjusted
 3.         Petrov        15      10        150        1st
 7.         Perez          6      17        102        2nd
 8.         Kobayashi      4      16        64         3rd
 4.         Alonso        12      5         60         4th
 2.         Hamilton      18      3         54         5th
 6.         Button         8      4         32         6th
 1.         Vettel        25      1         25         7th
 5.         Webber        10      2         20         8th
10.        Buemi          1      18        18         9th
 9.         Massa          2      6         12         10th

So Kobayashi, Petrol and Perez would have fared very well indeed, and this is reflected in the IIOTR voting (after all, IIOTR is for the unexpected, and the expected is for there to be a correlation from last year's performances to this year and therefore a correlation between car number and race position).

However, since Saubers' DSQ:

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Position   Driver        Points  Car no.   New total  Adjusted
 3.         Petrov        15      10        150        1st
 8.         Buemi          4      18        72         2nd  
 4.         Alonso        12      5         60         3rd
 2.         Hamilton      18      3         54         4th
 7.         Massa          6      6         36         5th         
 6.         Button         8      4         32         6th        
 9.         Sutil          2      14        28         7th
 1.         Vettel        25      1         25         8th
 5.         Webber        10      2         20         9th
10.        di Resta       1      15        15         10th

Petrol and Buemi now look good with Alonso there or thereabouts. And in both versions, Webber looks bad. :cry:

Posted: **10 Apr 2011, 17:40**

We've had another race where penalties have been applied so here's another pre- and post-race points table (points scored times car number) (Alonso and Button both 20 secs added to time, former for causing damage, latter for blocking former):

Pre-penalties

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1.  Heidfeld    135
2.  Button       72
3.  Kobayashi    64
4.  Massa        60
5.  Alonso       40
6.  Vettel       25
7.  Webber       24
8.  Hamilton     18
9.  di Resta     15
10. Schumacher   14

Post-penalties:

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1.  Heidfeld    135
2.  Kobayashi    96
3.  Button       72
4.  Massa        60
5.  Alonso       40
6.  Vettel       25
7.  Webber       24
8.  di Resta     15
9.  Schumacher   14
10. Hamilton     12

And the subsequent championship tables:

Original results

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   Round No.   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   Total
1. Petrov      150 0                                                                                 150
2. Heidfeld    0   135                                                                               135
3. Kobayashi   64  64                                                                                128
4. Button      32  72                                                                                104
5. Perez       102 0                                                                                 102
6. Alonso      60  40                                                                                100
7=.Hamilton    54  18                                                                                 72
7=.Massa       12  60                                                                                 72
9. Vettel      25  25                                                                                 50 
10.Webber      20  24                                                                                 44
11.Buemi       18  0                                                                                  18
12.di Resta    0   15                                                                                 15
13.Schumacher  0   14                                                                                 14

Revised results (post-penalties)

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   Round No.    1    2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   Total
1. Petrov       150  0                                                                                 150
2. Heidfeld     0    135                                                                               135
3. Button       32   72                                                                                104
4. Alonso       60   40                                                                                100
5=.Massa        36   60                                                                                 96
5=.Kobayashi    0    96                                                                                 96
7. Buemi        72   0                                                                                  72
8. Hamilton     54   12                                                                                 66
9. Vettel       25   25                                                                                 50
10.Webber       20   24                                                                                 44
11.di Resta     15   15                                                                                 30
12.Sutil        28   0                                                                                  28
13.Schumacher   0    14                                                                                 14

Posted: **12 Apr 2011, 13:56**

During the off-season, I thought that Alonso might do well at this this season, but now it looks like that Renault may well dominate, although I am also hoping that Jenson continues to rake up the points...

Posted: **17 Apr 2011, 15:09**

Points for the Chinese Grand Prix:

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1st. Rosberg   10pts x 8 = 80
2nd. Hamilton  25pts x 3 = 75
3rd= Button    12pts x 4 = 48
3rd= Massa      8pts x 6 = 48
5th= Webber    15pts x 2 = 30
5th= Alonso     6pts x 5 = 30
7th. Schumacher 4pts x 7 = 28
8th. Petrov     2pts x10 = 20
9th. Vettel    18pts x 1 = 18
10th Kobayashi  1pt  x16 = 16

So a very good race for Rosberg, otherwise I think he has been a bit anonymous today, relative to Webber and co.'s racing. And this system really does hinder the reigning WDC!

Current championship positions

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Round No.    1    2    3    Total
Petrov        150  0    20   170
Button        32   72   48   152
Massa        36   60   48   144
Hamilton     54   12   75   141
Heidfeld     0    135  0    135
Alonso       60   40   30   130
Kobayashi    0    96   16   112
Rosberg      0    0    80   80
Webber       20   24   30   74
Buemi        72   0    0    72
Vettel       25   25   18   68
Schumacher   0    14   28   42
di Resta     15   15   0    30
Sutil        28   0    0    28

No other scorers to date. Petrov's third in Oz is still enough to keep him on top in this alternative championship, while Button's steady scoring is paying dividends.

I'm not going to do the "pre-penalties" championship any more as I think that could be interesting enough without putting it through another alternative as well.

Posted: **08 May 2011, 20:28**

The championship where your points total is multiplied by your car number to express how well you are doing this year compared to how well your team did last season!

Turkish GP 2011 results (in points total order)

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     DRIVER      POINTS x CAR NO.  TOTAL 
 5.  Rosberg       10    x   8      80 
 3.  Alonso        15    x   5      75 
 7.  Heidfeld       6    x   9      54
 8.  Petrov         4    x  10      40
 9.  Buemi          2    x  18      36
 2.  Webber        18    x   2      36
 4.  Hamilton      12    x   3      36
 6.  Button         8    x   4      32
 1.  Vettel        25    x   1      25
10.  Kobayashi      1   x  16      16

So Rosberg is the big winner as are the Renaults, and 21st-century Eyebrows is the second-highest scorer, which is significant come the overall championship...

Current Championship positions

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Round No.      1    2    3    4   Total
Petrov       150    0   20   40   210
Alonso        60   40   30   75   205
Heidfeld       0  135    0   54   189 
Button        32   72   48   32   184
Hamilton      54   12   75   36   177
Rosberg        0    0   80   80   160
Massa         36   60   48    0   144
Kobayashi      0   96   16   16   128
Webber        20   24   30   36   110
Buemi         72    0    0   36   108
Vettel        25   25   18   25    93
Schumacher     0   14   28    0    42
di Resta      15   15    0    0    30
Sutil         28    0    0    0    28

As might have been predicted, Renault are now not racing as well as they were, and are losing their advantage to the man that the British red-tops love to hate, Fernando "Not-so-slow" Alonso, who moves from 6th to 2nd with today's result. Plus the two McLarens are still within a win of the lead of this (Button would gain 100 points and Lewis 75 points for a win).

Alonso is my guess for the win in this alternative championship by the end of the season, although I would like to see the McLarens beat him!

Posted: **09 May 2011, 16:54**

If it´s OK, I´ll try to do from 1989 to 1995 in that order with canging the numbers as in real life...

Posted: **09 May 2011, 17:03**

Vepe wrote:If it´s OK, I´ll try to do from 1989 to 1995 in that order with canging the numbers as in real life...

Thanks. Should be interesting (for me at least!).

Posted: **09 May 2011, 20:18**

Drivers Championship

Code: Select all

Driver                    Points
Mansell      1026
Nannini      708
Berger         588
Patrese         240
Johansson      216
Boutsen      185
Prost         162
Piquet         132
Martini      115
Danner         114
Herbert      100
de Cesaris      88
Caffi         84
Warwick      63
Senna         60
Cheever      60
Gugelmin      60
Arnoux      50
Pirro         40
Tarquini      40
Nakajima      36
Alesi         32
Modena      32
Alliot         30
Brundle      28
Grouillard      26
Perez-Sala      24
Alboreto      24(8 Tyrell,16 Lola)
Palmer         6
Ivan Capelli      0
Nicola Larini      0
Piercarlo Ghinzani   0
Paolo Barilla      0
Yannick Dalmas   0
Eric Bernard      0
Roberto Moreno   0
P-H Raphanel      0
Enrico Bertaggia   0
Gregor Foitek      0
Oscar Larrauri      0
Bernd Schneider   0
Aguri Suzuki      0
Bertrand Gachot   0
JJ Lehto      0
Volker Weidler   0
Philippe Streiff   0
Joachim Winkelhock   0

Constructors Championship

Code: Select all

Constructor                    Points
Ferrari         1614
Benetton-Ford      828
Williams-Renault   425
McLaren-Honda   222
Onyx-Ford      216
Dallara-Ford      172
Lotus-Judd      168
Minardi-Ford      139
Arrows-Ford      123
Rial-Ford      114
Ligier-Ford      76
Brabham-Judd      60
March-Judd      60
Tyrell-Ford      46
Lola-Lamborghini   46
AGS-Ford      40
Osella-Ford      0
Coloni-Ford      0
EuroBrun-Judd   0
Zakspeed-Yamaha   0

I also did Nations cup and engine manufacturers cup

Code: Select all

Italy         1347
UK         1223
Austria         588
France         300
Brazil         252
Sweden      216
Belgium      185
Germany      114
USA         60
Japan         36
Spain         24

Code: Select all

Ford         1754
Ferrari         1614
Renault      425
Judd         288
Honda         222
Lamborghini      46

Easy Championship for Mansell, due to his high car number, 27. It won´t be so easy next year when driving the #1.

Car number changes for 1990:

Ferrari: 27,27 --> 1,2
Osella: 17,18 --> 14
AGS: 40,41 --> 17,18
McLaren: 1,2 --> 27,28
Coloni: 31,32 --> 31
EuroBrun: 33 --> 33,34
Onyx: 36,37 --> 35,36

Posted: **10 May 2011, 09:07**

I made a look and put the numbers like they would have been had the similar numbering system been in place.
* Driver staying in the team gets smaller number (unless world champion joins and other driver stays, see Lotus 1988, McLaren 2010 and so on)
* If both drivers stay or both drivers are new, driver with more points in the previous season gets smaller number
* If neither driver scored, driver with more experience gets smaller number
* If it's no decision yet, like two new drivers (Tyrrell 1984), then the one with smaller number in real life gets smaller number here

I start backwards starting with 1995
1995 driver list:
1 Schumacher
2 Herbert
3 Hill
4 Coulthard
5 Alesi
6 Berger
7 Häkkinen/Magnussen
8 Blundell/Mansell
9 Barrichello
10 Irvine
11 Panis
12 Brundle/Suzuki
14 Katayama/Tarquini
15 Salo
16 Frentzen
17 Wendlinger/Boullion
18 Morbidelli/Papis
19 Inoue
20 Martini/Lamy
21 Badoer
22-23 not used due to withdrawal of Larrousse
24-25 not used due to withdrawal of Lotus
26 Schiattarella
27 Verstappen
28 Gachot/Lavaggi/Deletraz
29 Montermini

Standings:
Frentzen 16*15 = 240
Alesi 5*42 = 210
Hill 3*69 = 207
Coulthard 4*49 = 196
Berger 6*31 = 186
Panis 11*16 = 171
Häkkinen 7*17 = 119
Blundell 8*13 = 104
Schumacher 1*102 = 102
Irvine 10*10 = 100
Barrichello 9*11 = 99
Herbert 2*45 = 90
Morbidelli 18*5 = 90
Brundle 12*7 = 84
Salo 15*5 = 75
Boullion 17*3 = 51
Lamy 20*1 = 20
Suzuki 12*1 = 12

Posted: **10 May 2011, 11:15**

Think the Ferrari drivers' numbers should have been the other way round as Berger outscored Alesi in 1994, even if you add Alesi and Larini's together it's still less than Berger. (And that should make Alesi champion!)

But great idea, this should be do-able back to 1981, before that there are too many 3-car teams maybe.

Posted: **10 May 2011, 15:05**

You are right. So 252 for Alesi, 155 for Berger.

1994
0 Hill
2 Senna/Coulthard/Mansell
3 Häkkinen/Alliot
4 Brundle
5 Schumacher/Lehto (Monza and Estoril while Schumacher was suspended)
6 Verstappen/Lehto/Herbert
7 Alesi/Larini
8 Berger
9 Bernard/Herbert/Lagorce
10 Panis
11 Herbert/Bernard/Salo
12 Lamy/Zanardi/Adams
14 Wendlinger/de Cesaris/Lehto
15 Frentzen
16 Martini
17 Alboreto
18 Fittipaldi
19 Morbidelli
20 Comas/Deletraz
21 Beretta/Alliot/Dalmas/Noda
22 Barrichello
23 Irvine/Suzuki/de Cesaris
24 Katayama
25 Blundell
26 Brabham
27 Ratzenberger/Montermini/Gounon/Schiattarella/Inoue
28 Gachot
29 Belmondo

Schumacher 5*92 = 460
Barrichello 22*19 = 418
Berger 8*41 = 328
Blundell 25*8 = 200
Alesi 7*24 = 168
Irvine 23*6 = 138
Katayama 24*5 = 120
Fittipaldi 18*6 = 108
Frentzen 15*7 = 105
Panis 10*9 = 90
de Cesaris 14*1 + 23*3 = 83
Häkkinen 3*26 = 78
Brundle 4*16 = 64
Martini 16*4 = 64
Verstappen 6*10 = 60
Morbidelli 19*3 = 57
Wendlinger 14*4 = 56
Larini 7*6 = 42
Comas 20*2 = 40
Bernard 9*4 = 36
Coulthard 2*14 = 28
Mansell 2*13 = 26
Alboreto 17*1 = 17
Lehto 6*1 = 6
Hill 0*91 = 0 (poor Damon)

It's worth of note that Larrousse beat Jordan by a virtue of 8th positions in 1993.

Posted: **10 May 2011, 16:42**

I wondered what would happen regarding the #0 car! Prost should have it in 1993 under the criteria though.

Posted: **11 May 2011, 08:10**

1993
0 Prost
2 Hill
3 Senna
4 Andretti/Häkkinen
5 Schumacher
6 Patrese
7 Alesi
8 Berger
9 Herbert
10 Zanardi/Lamy
11 de Cesaris
12 Katayama
14 Suzuki
15 Warwick
16 Brundle
17 Blundell
18-19 not used due to withdrawal of March
20 Alboreto
21 Badoer
22 Capelli/Boutsen/Apicella/Naspetti/Irvine
23 Barrichello
24 Comas
25 Alliot/T Suzuki
26 Fittipaldi/Gounon
27 Barbazza/Martini
28 Wendlinger
29 Lehto

Schumacher 5*52=260
Senna 3*73=219
Brundle 16*13=208
Wendlinger 28*7=196
Blundell 17*10=170
Lehto 29*5=145
Hill 2*69=138
Fittipaldi 26*5=130
Patrese 6*20=120
Alesi 7*16=112
Herbert 9*11=99
Berger 8*12=96
Warwick 15*4=60
Barbazza 27*2=54
Alliot 25*2=50
Barrichello 23*2=46
Andretti 4*7=28
Comas 24*1=24
Irvine 22*1=22
Häkkinen 4*4=16
Zanardi 10*1=10
Prost 0*99=0

Posted: **11 May 2011, 16:25**

Bleu wrote:1993
3 Senna
5 Schumacher

Schumacher 5*52=260
Senna 3*73=219

Interesting how just changing your car number slightly alters your fortune by a fair bit. Using originally-allocated numbers, Schumacher (5) came 5th= while Senna won with car number 8. Yet Prost won in reality with car number 2. (Originally-allocated numbers version on page 2, towards bottom).

Posted: **11 May 2011, 18:29**

Here´s 1990

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Senna 2106
Berger 1204
Piquet 860
Nannini 399
Suzuki 180
Boutsen 170
Bernard 145
Prost  142
Patrese 138
Moreno 114
Capelli 96
Alesi 52
Mansell 37
Warwick 33
Caffi 20
Modena 16
Gugelmin 15
Nakajima 9

Code: Select all

McLaren-Honda 3310
Benetton-Ford 1373
Lola-Lamborghini 325
Williams-Renault 308
Ferrari 179
March-Judd 111
Tyrell-Ford 61
Lotus-Lamborghini 33
Arrows-Ford 20
Brabham-Judd 16

Number changes for 1991:
McLaren:27,28 --> 1,2
Ferrari:1,2 --> 27,28
EuroBrun:33 --> Jordan: 32,33
EuroBrun:34,Onyx:35 --> Modena:34,35

Posted: **22 May 2011, 19:17**

Post Spanish Grand Prix

Code: Select all

     Driver    Pts x No.  Pts total

 3.  Button     15 x  4   60 
 6.  Schumacher  8 x  7   56
 2.  Hamilton   18 x  3   54
 5.  Alonso     10 x  5   50
 7.  Rosberg     6 x  8   48
 8.  Heidfeld    4 x  9   36
 9.  Perez       2 x 17   34
 1.  Vettel     25 x  1   25
 4.  Webber     12 x  2   24
10.  Kobayashi   1 x 16   16

A good race for Button and Schumacher, while Vettel, due to his world champion status, was only able to score a medoicre number of points again, despite his and Red Bull's best efforts.

Championship positions

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Round No.      1    2    3    4   5   Total
Alonso        60   40   30   75   50  255
Button        32   72   48   32   60  244
Hamilton      54   12   75   36   54  231
Heidfeld       0  135    0   54   36  225 
Petrov       150    0   20   40    0  210
Rosberg        0    0   80   80   48  208
Massa         36   60   48    0    0  144
Kobayashi      0   96   16   16   16  144
Webber        20   24   30   36   24  134
Vettel        25   25   18   25   25  118
Buemi         72    0    0   36    0  108
Schumacher     0   14   28    0   56   98
Perez          0    0    0    0   34   34
di Resta      15   15    0    0    0   30
Sutil         28    0    0    0    0   28

And Renault have finally been overtaken this year! After their early podiums, giving them an early advantage, they have lost the lead to Alonso, Button AND Hamilton. Perez is also a first-time scorer, and immediately goes ahead of di Resta and Sutil, bottom of the scorers.

So far this year, in this championship, we have had four winners - Petrov, Heidfeld, Rosberg (twice) and now Button. Who will win next time out in Monaco next weekend?

Posted: **23 May 2011, 11:47**

While putting numbers here, I decided that if the team left during the season, their numbers will be replaced (I already did that in 1994 when Tyrrell moved past Scuderia Italia despite being behind due to Badoer achieving 7th place) If team completed the season and pulled out in off-season, their numbers will be vacant. So in 1992 Modena team is missing but AGS which withdrew after Spanish GP is not.

1 Senna
2 Berger
3 Mansell
4 Patrese
5 Alesi
6 Capelli/Larini
7 Schumacher
8 Brundle
9 Modena
10 Gugelmin
11 de Cesaris
12 Grouillard
14 Morbidelli
15 Fittipaldi/Zanardi
16 Lehto
17 Martini
18 Häkkinen
19 Herbert
20 van de Poele
21 Amati/Hill
22 Gachot
23 Katayama
24 Wendlinger/Lammers
25 Belmondo/Naspetti
26 Boutsen
27 Comas
28-29 not used
30 Tarquini
31 Chiesa/van de Poele
32 Alboreto
33 Suzuki
34 Moreno
35 McCarthy

Schumacher 7*53 = 371
Mansell 3*108 = 324
Brundle 8*38 = 304
Patrese 4*56 = 224
Häkkinen 18*11 =198
Alboreto 32*6 = 192
Comas 27*4 = 108
Berger 2*49 = 98
Alesi 5*18 = 90
de Cesaris 11*8 = 88
Wendlinger 24*3 = 72
Boutsen 26*2 = 52
Senna 1*50 = 50
Herbert 19*2 = 38
Martini 17*2 = 34
Gachot 22*1 = 22
Capelli 6*3 = 18
Fittipaldi 15*1 = 15
Modena 9*1 = 9

Posted: **23 May 2011, 16:54**

Bleu wrote: 1992
Schumacher 7*53 = 371

Booooo! Exactly the type of result I wanted to eliminate! (Although with actual car numbers, Schumacher still won, although this was his only title with actual car numbers).

Grand Prix Rejects

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