No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Archive for the three above subforums
Post Reply
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

This is another idea I've just had - I wanted to do a new Alternative Championship, and not just continue or adapt another unfinished one (like One-Car for example), so this is the idea I had:

It's inspired by the "No Ferrari" championship which is currently ongoing, and the "No Real Champions" Championship which was done last year (and Mark Webber has won all but two races of this year I believe), I wanted to do something similar for teams rather than drivers though.

I thought initally excluding any team/constructor which had ever won a championship would result in some tiny fields in some years, and also about doing the "No Big 4" championship, the Big 4 in question being McLaren, Ferrari, Williams and Benetton/Renault, but that just means some duplication of No Ferrari in the early years, and stupid Red Bull domination recently!

So - I'm splitting which constructors/teams I exclude into decades, any championship-winning constructors are excluded for the rest of that decade, and also any teams that a driver winning the WDC drove for even if they didn't win the constructors (eg McLaren didn't win a WCC in the 2000s but I will exclude them because of Hamilton being WDC in 2008).
Another reason I'm doing that is reams changing identities over the years - ie the modern Lotus and the 60s/70s Lotus are very different entities altogether!

2011 so far looks like this for a taster (and this decade I can only exclude Red Bull as yet, and 2011 doesn't look like anything will change that!!):

Alonso 206
Button 190
Hamilton 189
Massa 116
Rosberg 95
Schumacher 74
Petrov 61
Heidfeld 58
Kobayashi 56
Sutil 48
Buemi 30
Alguersuari 27
Di Resta 24
Perez 20
Barrichello 13
Maldonado 4
De La Rosa 1

McLaren 379
Ferrari 322
Mercedes 169
Renault 119
Sauber 77
Force India 72
Toro Rosso 57
Williams 17 (oh dear!)
and none at all for Lotus, HRT and Virgin.

Alonso is looking like the very likely winner due to being a clear #1 driver, unlike the evenly-matched McLarens!

So then I'll start with the 50s once I've worked out who I'm eliminating! :)
Last edited by James1978 on 12 Sep 2011, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: Another as yet nameless Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

Should have done this earlier but from the 50s I will be eliminating:

Alfa Romeo
Maserati
Mercedes
Ferrari
Vanwall
Cooper

And like the other alternative championship I've done, I won't include the Indy 500 or points for fastest laps (if anyone from an eligible constructor gets one from the 50s I'd be amazed anyway)

So on with:

1950

Louis Rosier 30 (32) (3 wins, 1 2nd)
Johnny Claes 14 (1 2nd, 2 3rd)
Bob Gerard 12 (1 win, 1 3rd)
Yves Giraud-Cabantous 11 (1 win, 1 4th)
Philippe Etancelin 11 (2 2nd, 1 of which shared)
Robert Manzon 8 (1 win)
Harry Schell/Pierre Levegh 6 (1 2nd)
Eugene Chaboud 6 (1 shared 2nd)
Cuth Harrison/Geoff Crossley both 3 (1 4th)
Charles Pozzi 2 (1 shared 3 3rd)

Pretty dominant to start but just look who's runner up!!! :)

No constructors championship until 1958 of course.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

Changed thread title too.
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

1951

Louis Rosier 30 (42) (3 wins)
Yves Giraud-Cabantous 16 (2 2nd)
Robert Manzon 12 (1 win, 1 3rd)
Louis Chiron 10 (1 win, 1 5th)
Philippe Etancelin 10 (1 2nd, 1 3rd)
Stirling Moss/Andre Simon 8 (1 win)
Johnny Claes 8 (2 4th)
Bob Gerard 6 (1 2nd)
Pierre Levegh 6 (1 3rd)
Guy Mairesse 5 (1 4th)
Andre Pilette/Eugene Chaboud/Duncan Hamilton all 4 (1 3rd)
Brian Shawe-Taylor/Jacques Swaters/Franco Rol all 3 (1 4th)

And again!!
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
Warren Hughes
Posts: 1334
Joined: 23 Aug 2009, 10:37
Location: Sunderland, UK

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by Warren Hughes »

These are some of the most comical results in an alternative championship that we've seen so far!
Nico Rosberg wrote:Break me down mentally? Good luck with that one.

:roll:
User avatar
Bleu
Posts: 3428
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 17:38

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by Bleu »

Takes a while while we head towards 1980s but I will put predictions already:

Williams, Brabham, Ferrari, McLaren eliminated if I understand that right?

1980-81 Laffite
1982 Alboreto
1983 Prost
1984-85 de Angelis
1986-87 Senna
1988 Boutsen
1989 Nannini

1990s - Williams, McLaren, Benetton and Ferrari (only due to WCC 1999!) gone
1990 Alesi
1991 de Cesaris!!!
1992 Häkkinen
1993 Brundle
1994 Barrichello
1995 Frentzen
1996 Barrichello
1997 Fisichella
1998 Hill
1999 Frentzen

2000s - Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Brawn out?
2000-01 Ralf Schumacher
2002-03 Montoya
2004 Button
2005 Trulli
2006 Button
2007 Heidfeld
2008 Kubica
2009 Vettel
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

I'm debating about the 00s whether to eliminate BAR/Honda due to them becoming Brawn, and Benetton in 2000/01 before they became Renault. I can't decide. It'll make it so I'm eliminating a straight exact 4 teams from each of the last 4 full decades (because Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Tyrrell get eliminated from the 70s) - with the exception of 1988 when Brabham didn't compete. 2004 and 2006 certainly become more interesting if I do that!
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

1952

Robert Manzon 30 (3 wins, 1 2nd)
Jean Behra 19 (2 wins)
Dennis Poore (who?) 16 (2 wins)
Maurice Trintignant 12 (2 2nd)
Lance Macklin 7 (1 4th)
Ken Wharton/Paul Frere/Eric Thompson/Fritz Reiss 6 (1 2nd)
Johnny Claes 6 (1 3rd)
Prince Bira 6 (2 4th)
Peter Collins/Ken Downing/Toni Ulmen/Duncan Hamilton all 4 (1 3rd)
Helmut Niedermayr 3 (1 4th)
Graham Whitehead 2 (1 5th)

A clean sweep for France so far!
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

Actually I've had a rethink. You know what? I'm going to ATTEMPT to do this by just eliminating any winning team from all history, becuase I think it's possible. The 80s - present day are easy but before that I will try to keep in the privateers who ran an old chassis of a winning team (for instance Rupert Keegan in 1980), I just have to know who drove for which team when.....

Also when teams have been away from the sport and come back, I shall only exclude them from the forms they were in when they won (ie the old Lotus and Mercedes who won championships are excluded, the current ones who are yet to win are included). Therefore I will include the 70s/80s Renault but not the 2002+ Renault. And I will also keep in Stewart and Jaguar, as they didn't win anything until Red Bull took them over, similar for BAR/Honda/Brawn.

So this is the list of WORKS teams I believe I have to exclude:

Alfa Romeo (1950-51)
Maserati (1950 - 57)
Mercedes (1954 - 55)
Ferrari (1950 - present)
Vanwall (1954 - 60)
Cooper (1957 - 68)
BRM (1958 - 77)
Lotus (1958 - 94)
Brabham (1962 - 87) - I reckon I should include them from 1989 - 92 as Bernie had relinquished them by then
Tyrrell (1968 - 98) - I will keep in the Matra team which was ran independently of Ken Tyrrell
McLaren (1966 - present)
Williams (1978 - present)
Benetton (1986 - 2001)
Renault (2002- present)
Brawn (2009)
Red Bull (2005 - present)

Should start this next week, but if anyone thinks that list is incorrect, please let me know! :)
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
User avatar
James1978
Posts: 3123
Joined: 26 Jul 2010, 18:46
Location: Darlington, NE England

Re: No Winning Constructors Alternative Championship.....

Post by James1978 »

Actually if anyone else wants to give this a go, please be my guest. I've come to the conclusion there are too many grey areas about who to include and who to disqualify. When I tried to do 2011 it became a boring Mercedes walkover then thought "Hmm, that team only won in 2009 despite the name change", then I thought of the Lotus/Renault debacle, and also whether the 2011 Lotus is anything to do with Colin Chapman, so basically all you're left with who DEFINITELY haven't won a championship are Force India, Sauber, Toro Rosso (you could even argue they wouldn't exist without Red Bull), Virgin and HRT. Also 2009 you're down to only 4 defininte teams (BMW-Sauber, Toyota, Force India, Toro Rosso).

Also I then realised that privateer teams counted towards the parent constructor in the constructor's championship before 1980 so that would mean you'd have to disqualify all those rejects who ran privateer McLarens/Lotuses/Tyrrells/Brabhams/Williamses etc. :(

I'll try and think of another alternative championship soon, but if anyone wants to give this a go, you have my blessing, and good luck! :)
"Poor old Warwick takes it from behind all throughout this season". :) (Tony Jardine, 1988)
Post Reply