Kimi Räikkönen

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 08 Nov 2011, 11:45

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1? And to Williams, of all places? Do you think he can like F1 again? Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams? And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello?
Since he's a world champion, I believe he deserves his own thread

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 08 Nov 2011, 11:57

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1?
- I think it's known here what I think of it, but in case you don't know it: I don't like it.

Do you think he can like F1 again?
- No, even if the car is decent, the fact that he will get beaten by his team mate will soon rob him of his interest.

Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams?
- No, even if the FW34 turns out decent, it will fail because (see second answer)

And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello?
- Won't happen unless these Arabian sponsors who are to pay for Räikkönen really bring out the big money, since Maldonado is pretty much fix.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Nov 2011, 11:59

A whole thread just for Mr Räikkönen? He would be proud of you Henrique, if it wasn't for the fact he was taking a s*** instead of caring! :lol:

No, seriously, I like the idea. Besides, it already pissed off Klon since it is Barrichello he is supposed to be replacing!

Answering to your questions, he is trying to salvage some of the reputation he lost being crap at other series, so he better start liking it. I like that the idea of his return but I am afraid he will be stuck, at best, in the midfield. It could mean great things, yes, if by great thing you mean bringing points regularly! Finally, he will not be teaming with Rubens, he will be teaming with the Reverend himself.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 08 Nov 2011, 12:07

It's a big roll of the dice from Williams really, as was Maldonado and his PDVSA money, but that hasn't turned out as bad as people were expecting. For me, Williams are at the point Lotus were around the late 80s/early 90s. I think that despite a few rubbish seasons, they have the potential to come back, build a much better performing car though podiums and certainly race wins are likely to be out of the question. I think they can do it, and I think Kimi might be one factor in achieving that. If Williams can put him to work, then perhaps he could be the driver with the ability to give an average car good results, from which the team can build upon in future years?

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 08 Nov 2011, 12:57

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1?
- "Meh", to be honest. He's a good driver, but I don't think a lot of his attitude or his 'iceman' persona bullshit.

And to Williams, of all places?
- Bad fit for both the driver and the team. If Kimi's serious about F1, he will want competitive machinery which Williams haven't exactly provided for the last couple of years. I think if he does take the offer then I'm hard pressed to see at as anything other than a move back into F1 with a view to being picked up by a bigger team. If that doesn't happen soon, or Williams doesn't seriously surprise us with their next car, then he'll probably lose interest, which will hurt both him and Williams.

Do you think he can like F1 again?
- Dunno for sure. There's more chance of figuring out what a brick likes, to be honest. But as above, I could see him getting disillusioned with poor machinery.

Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams?
- I think Kimi will incidental to whether or not Williams make a good car. Renault will presumably have more impact on things with regards to the engine, gearbox, exhausts and whole rear-end, but if Williams are still behind the rest of the field on aerodynamics, suspension etc, Renault won't save them.

And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello?
- I think it's more likely he'll partner Maldonado.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 08 Nov 2011, 12:58

As I said in the other thread I think it is a risk worth taking for Williams. I expect Maldonado* to do a reasonable job however good the car is next year, and with Raikkonen you have the potential for him to do great things.

I also think people are overplaying how inconsistent Raikkonen was, even at his most disinterested in 2008-09 he was still pretty close to Massa, and I would still consider him more than a match for someone solid but dependable like Sutil.

Like so many things in F1 it comes down to money, financially Williams are doing OK with their PVDSA money, but they can't afford to pay Raikkonen the sort of superstar wages he was getting at Ferrari, if Raikkonen is serious about coming back he will have to accept a much more modest fee, but if he's only in it for the money then the Williams deal isn't going to happen.

I simply can't see Barrichello staying at Williams next year, if they don't get Raikkonen then they will probably get Sutil or a rookie.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 08 Nov 2011, 15:16

Oh look, it's that time of the year again.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Kimi back in F1, because whether you like him or not, you cannot deny the fact that he is THE quickest driver in F1 history on raw pace... when he feels like being that.
And that's just the problem. I'd rather have Kimi retire than go trundle around in the midfield with a shitbox car and exactly zero interest in anything else than his bank account.

Though if he IS motivated and the next Williams is a decent car... hell, why not?

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 08 Nov 2011, 15:52

DonTirri wrote:Oh look, it's that time of the year again.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see Kimi back in F1, because whether you like him or not, you cannot deny the fact that he is THE quickest driver in F1 history on raw pace...

Yes you can. I'd go as far as to say that if he came back, he wouldn't even be the quickest on the gri- oh it's DonTroll. Nevermind.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 08 Nov 2011, 17:22

It would be nice to see Kimi back in F1, a lot of the things he gets criticised for are just that he doesn't want to play the F1 publissocrap game.

Come to that it would be nice to see Williams back in F1.

But ....
Kimi is not the best car developer in the world, and Williams need to develop their car.
Kimi is not famous for motivation, and Williams are not famous for understanding and motivating their drivers.
Realistically Williams are not going to be better than mid-field in the next couple of years.
Kimi may have been the fastest driver in F1, but a whole new generation of hot shoes has arrived since then. Most of whom are fast and have a work ethic.

I think it would be reminiscent of Mansell, Mansell at McLaren that is, not Mansell at Williams.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 08 Nov 2011, 18:09

I don't know how this will turn out for Kimi. But he will have his work cut out for him since Williams are pretty much a low-midfield team right now. Maybe the Renault power might help boost things for the team, but if the car is just like this years car then he might be in trouble. All in all, it's great to see Kimi back, but that would mean that Rubens has probably reached the end of his F1 career. Which would be a very sad end indeed.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 08 Nov 2011, 19:14

He'll last three or four races and then leave the team. It will be wonderful once he's outpaced by the Reverend.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 08 Nov 2011, 20:07

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1?
- Great, I never thought it would happen, but he is a quick and unique driver.

And to Williams, of all places?
- That's even more surprising, but I think it shows that Kimi has serious and long term plans in F1, and as it was pointed out earlier, it's not even about the loads of money.

Do you think he can like F1 again?
- He'll be probably the same, as earlier. He won't like dealing with the press and the marketing stuff, but I think he never disliked racing in F1.

Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams?
- I don't believe in a R&R-miracle for Williams, still, they can't be worse than this year, can they?

And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello?
- Won't happen, but Kimi would best him at least as much, as he will Maldonado.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 08 Nov 2011, 20:07

i hope he can pull Williams out of the gutter.

Post by **mario** » 08 Nov 2011, 21:16

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1?
I'm somewhat cool towards the hype around him returning - Schumacher, after all, is only really beginning to get into his stride after nearly two years, and that is despite remaining much more closely attached to the F1 circus (not to mention maintaining the same sort of training regimes and technical interest he had when participating, which is more than Kimi has done). If he does return next year, I doubt that we'll see the Kimi of old for some time yet, if at all, given that he'll have a reasonably steep learning curve to deal with.

And to Williams, of all places?
To be honest there are few other teams that would want to take the risk of hiring him - the top teams are more than satisfied with their current drivers (and given that there are four world champions in the top six seats there is no shortage of talent), and most of the midfield teams are more interested in pay drivers (Exhibit A: Renault), or promising drivers from the lower series who can be hired for the long haul (Perez fits the bill there).
Williams are in a situation where they need to gamble, and in the circumstances Kimi, if he is committed to F1, has few options available to him - but the jury is still out over whether he can offer the team the leadership they need, and the team can offer him the support he'll need to get back up to speed.

Do you think he can like F1 again?
Maybe - Williams are one of the quieter teams when it comes to PR, which will help, but I think that any chance of Kimi enjoying himself will depend heavily on whether Williams can still produce a car capable of rising to the top of the midfield, not sinking to the bottom of it. If Williams struggle as they have this year, I can see Kimi wanting to bail out of F1 pretty quickly.

Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams?
As others have said, it's probable that Williams could improve their form simply because they have to - the shareholders will demand action and push for reforms, and the management reshuffle will be expected to lead to an improvement in form.
The Renault engine should be an improvement over the Cosworth engine (if nothing else the drop off in performance with wear is likely to be less pronounced), and technical partnerships with smaller teams should bring in money and expertise, but given that Williams have generally hovered around 6th-8th in the WCC for a few years, the best they can hope for is to be around where Force India is about now (6th in the WCC and in or on the fringes of the top 10).

And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello?
If anybody is likely to be leaving that team right now, it is Rubens and not Maldonado - Maldonado is bringing in the cash and, at the moment, is outperforming Rubens (I suspect that Rubens knows that Williams want to get rid of him and, like several other drivers on the grid, has lost all interest in the remainder of the season).

As to how Kimi would measure up against Maldonado, the problem is that Kimi would be expected to beat Maldonado, in much the same way he was expected to beat Massa at Ferrari in 2008 (and up until Canada he was ahead of him, but subsequent upgrades favoured Massa instead and, by Kimi's own admission, he gradually lost some interest in that season).
At least in the case of Schumacher being beaten by Rosberg it wasn't too bad, given that Rosberg has generally been rated fairly highly, and had come off the back of a more competitive than expected 2009 season for Williams. Maldonado, however, isn't regarded in the same light or class, and being consistently beaten by him would probably ruin any hopes for Kimi moving to a more competitive team pretty quickly.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 08 Nov 2011, 21:45

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1? Kinda hoping it happens, as I liked him when he was with Ferrari.
And to Williams, of all places? The best he can hope for is the midfield.
Do you think he can like F1 again? Not really.
Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams? It will bring an improvement, but not a huge one.
And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello? It wont happen, but I would like to see it happen.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Nov 2011, 22:38

So, what do you think of Kimi's possible return to F1? As long as he's interested, I'll be relatively pleased. Raikkonen was my favourite driver up until it was clear he'd lost interest. Seeing him back and motivated would only be good for everyone.

And to Williams, of all places? That's really, the question - does he want to be fighting it out for minor points at best? If he does, more power to him. Just so long as he doesn't take as long as Schumacher did to get up to pace, Williams does not have that long.

Do you think he can like F1 again? Raikkonen will know that it'll take some time for him to be winning GPs again, and that he'll have to knuckle down in order to get those results, so if he signs for Williams, that should be a good enough indication that he's willing to work with the team.

Could the combination of Räikkönen and Renault engines mean great things for Williams? Possibly. If they do get Raikkonen interested, the team needs to capitalise on that and get a decent design team in. Aggressively headhunting from Sauber, Force India, and Team Fernandes would be their best choice.

If it doesn't work out, though, I don't expect Williams to last more than a couple years - they made a mistake putting all their eggs in the Nico Rosberg basket, and they can't afford another one like that.

And what do you think of Räikkönen teaming up with Barrichello? Ha ha ha. Good joke.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 08 Nov 2011, 23:58

I really think that it all depends on whether Räikkönen is willing to make a good fist of it or not rather than anything else. If he really does, I think he can plug in like if he never left F1 and perform straight away because he has a lot of natural talent and, like it or not, his "Iceman" moniker is mostly true and he's not the kind of guy that gets flustered easily. I also believe Mike Coughlan can come up with a good car, the Renault engine will surely be a plus and, if those informations about Qatari investors ready to invest in the team should Kimi complete the move are true, then budget won't be an issue and the team will be able to carry on development through the season.

However, if he gets bored inmediately it'll all be a waste of time. I don't know if it'll go one way or the other, so I'm neutral about this so far.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 09 Nov 2011, 00:54

To keep it short and simple - If Raikkonen signs for Williams, I can expect plenty of hype around him for the first few races, which will slowly dissappear when Williams fail to move up the grid. Raikkonen will then leave after a year.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 09 Nov 2011, 10:12

You have to presume ~if~ he does sign, he'll only want a one year contract, I don't know if Williams would want (or could afford to pay) him for 2 or more years, so I guess his aim
would be to impress enough to get a decent drive for 2013, so who could make way?

I guess Renault need to keep Petrov for financial reasons, though I'm not sure he's even contracted for next year yet, but the 2nd seat could be spare, especially if Kubica doesn't come
back, or comes back and impresses enough to get a drive elsewhere. If Senna or Grosjean drives it would probably be on a 1 year contract.

Both Massa and Webber could go after next year, though I very much doubt Ferrari would want Kimi back. In fact, would anyone who he has worked with want him back?

There could be a vacancy at McLaren after next season, but I can't see him going back, for the same reason as above.

I say he's after Schumacher's seat at Mercedes in 2013 ...

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 09 Nov 2011, 11:26

I think Kimi still has his potential, unlike another champion that returned after retirement.... Not pointing fingers
I really believe that if Kimi does make a return and joins Williams in the process, he can pull them into the lower top 5 teams at least. Not putting too much money on it though, as his NASCAR antics didn't go quite to how we anticipated. Let's all hope the does enjoy f1 again. I think he might take a liking to KERS and DRS. Anything to give a boost to his chance at a pole position.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Nov 2011, 12:53

AdrianSutil wrote:If Raikkonen signs for Williams, I can expect plenty of hype around him for the first few races, which will slowly dissappear when Williams fail to move up the grid. Raikkonen will then leave after a year.

More like six months.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Nov 2011, 17:16

Why Williams? When Redbull decides to dump Webber they should sign up Raikkonen for no other reason than to give DonTirri a conflict of interest on who to support.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 10 Nov 2011, 00:39

F1000X wrote:Why Williams? When Redbull decides to dump Webber they should sign up Raikkonen for no other reason than to give DonTirri a conflict of interest on who to support.

No, no, no, no, no. Raikkonen's "iceman" personality would never fit in at Red Bull. It wouldn't combine well with the image the team tries to put out.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 10 Nov 2011, 01:25

F1000X wrote:Why Williams?

Because Raikkonen has been out of the sport for two years, and he hasn't driven an open-wheeler since. He's been rallying, which is about as far-removed from open wheel racing as you can get whilst still staying in motorsport (with the possible exception of MotoGP). In the time since, Formula 1 has seen the introduction of fuel-heavy cars, Pirelli tyres and the DRS/F-duct. On their own, each of these fundamentally change the way the car behaves. Together, they affect performance exponentially. Contrary to the belief propagated by his fans, Kimi Raikkonen is not simply going to be able to step into the car and be competitive enough to race for Red Bull. Williams is probably the team furthest up the grid that a) has an opening and b) is willing to take him.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 10 Nov 2011, 06:25

You both seem to have missed that fact that my post was not serious. Maybe I should have included a smiley face?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Nov 2011, 17:36

Henrique wrote:
F1000X wrote:Why Williams? When Redbull decides to dump Webber they should sign up Raikkonen for no other reason than to give DonTirri a conflict of interest on who to support.

No, no, no, no, no. Raikkonen's "iceman" personality would never fit in at Red Bull. It wouldn't combine well with the image the team tries to put out.

Why? Doesn't Red Bull taste nicer with a few ice cubes in it? (I really don't know - I think it is vile stuff...).

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 10 Nov 2011, 21:28

How many drivers have driven for the big three (Ferrari, Williams and McLaren) in their careers? Kimi would really join a few member club if he signed with Frank.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 10 Nov 2011, 21:31

Benetton wrote:How many drivers have driven for the big three (Ferrari, Williams and McLaren) in their careers? Kimi would really join a few member club if he signed with Frank.

Nigel Mansell, Alain Prost and Jacky Ickx

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 11 Nov 2011, 11:12

Benetton wrote:How many drivers have driven for the big three (Ferrari, Williams and McLaren) in their careers? Kimi would really join a few member club if he signed with Frank.

Sadly, there is nothing big about Williams right now except history. Time and some bad decisions hurt them badly and they are now a shallow of their former self. They are the like Everton. A former champion, a great team who is now cash strapped and a bit in the doldrums. My point is, when you think of the 4 big English clubs, you don't think of Everton.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 11 Nov 2011, 11:29

DanielPT wrote:
Benetton wrote:How many drivers have driven for the big three (Ferrari, Williams and McLaren) in their careers? Kimi would really join a few member club if he signed with Frank.

Sadly, there is nothing big about Williams right now except history. Time and some bad decisions hurt them badly and they are now a shallow of their former self. They are the like Everton. A former champion, a great team who is now cash strapped and a bit in the doldrums. My point is, when you think of the 4 big English clubs, you don't think of Everton.

Yeah, that's like equating Ricardo Rosset's career with Jackie Stewart's because they both drove for Tyrell.

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 11 Nov 2011, 11:41

I agree that Williams only has history right now.
Example, a large amount of people think that Williams and Renault are a good combo for next season.
Unfortunately that was all with v10s. They won four championships on those motors.
I honestly think that this year's v8s aren't as good as the v10s.
If you haven't guessed I'm kind of becoming a purist. lol
Born in '94 and grew up listening to what was once an orchestra of exhaust.

Post by **mario** » 11 Nov 2011, 13:28

fjackdaw wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Benetton wrote:How many drivers have driven for the big three (Ferrari, Williams and McLaren) in their careers? Kimi would really join a few member club if he signed with Frank.

Sadly, there is nothing big about Williams right now except history. Time and some bad decisions hurt them badly and they are now a shallow of their former self. They are the like Everton. A former champion, a great team who is now cash strapped and a bit in the doldrums. My point is, when you think of the 4 big English clubs, you don't think of Everton.

Yeah, that's like equating Ricardo Rosset's career with Jackie Stewart's because they both drove for Tyrell.

And these days it's kind of hard to avoid comparing Williams with Tyrrell either in some ways - falling back from being very competitive to being part of the midfield pack and mostly surviving on nostalgia. Certainly, any new viewers to the sport would probably wonder why such a fuss is made over Williams at all given their recent record...

nome66 wrote:I agree that Williams only has history right now.
Example, a large amount of people think that Williams and Renault are a good combo for next season.
Unfortunately that was all with v10s. They won four championships on those motors.
I honestly think that this year's v8s aren't as good as the v10s.
If you haven't guessed I'm kind of becoming a purist. lol
Born in '94 and grew up listening to what was once an orchestra of exhaust.

At the very least it is unlikely that the Renault engine will be a worse bet than the Cosworth engine, because, despite the best efforts of Cosworth, it is hard to make an engine that missed out on several years worth of developments, was designed under different regulations and with a considerably lower development budget competitive with its rivals. How good such a package might be is another matter - Red Bull's current performance, and to a lesser extent that of the Renault works team (at least in the hands of Kubica last year) might make some think that the Renault engine is an instant pass to success, but in reality the performance gain is probably not massive.
Mind you, given that the grid is still very tight, and likely to remain that way for some time, gaining a tenth from a different engine (which at least may be possible in race conditions given the lower fuel consumption of the Renault engine) would be a step in the right direction.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 11 Nov 2011, 21:47

mario wrote:And these days it's kind of hard to avoid comparing Williams with Tyrrell either in some ways - falling back from being very competitive to being part of the midfield pack and mostly surviving on nostalgia. Certainly, any new viewers to the sport would probably wonder why such a fuss is made over Williams at all given their recent record...

Your statement reminds me of what I thought when I discovered Jacques Villeneuve was once a World Champion, back in 2003 or so :lol:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 11 Nov 2011, 21:52

Phoenix wrote:
mario wrote:And these days it's kind of hard to avoid comparing Williams with Tyrrell either in some ways - falling back from being very competitive to being part of the midfield pack and mostly surviving on nostalgia. Certainly, any new viewers to the sport would probably wonder why such a fuss is made over Williams at all given their recent record...

Your statement reminds me of what I thought when I discovered Jacques Villeneuve was once a World Champion, back in 2003 or so

And that in turn reminds me of when I was setting a custom grid on F1 2000 for the PS1 - I put myself on pole (come on, I was only 8), and Villeneuve 2nd, my reasoning for that being 'Villeneuve's crap and can't possibly challenge me'.

As to why I remember this, your guess is as good as mine.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 29 Nov 2011, 10:17

He has signed for Lotus Renault !

Dunno how that will work. Fundamentally its a good team, although this year was dissappointing. They like no-nonsense, fast drivers and Kimi could be that if he bothers to do some work. Could be interesting.

I guess they would have preferred Kubica though. And does this open the Fearrari door for Robert?

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 29 Nov 2011, 10:28

I'm wondering more about the 2nd seat now. I was sure it was going to be petrov and senna. Does petrov have a contract for next season?

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Nov 2011, 10:31

Apparently at the end of last year Petrov did sign a two-year deal, which would take in 2011 and 2012. So in theory he has the other seat... But as we've seen before, contracts don't often mean a lot in F1!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 29 Nov 2011, 11:19

Paul Hayes wrote:Apparently at the end of last year Petrov did sign a two-year deal, which would take in 2011 and 2012. So in theory he has the other seat... But as we've seen before, contracts don't often mean a lot in F1!

Kubica had a two year contract as well, and I'm sure he won't give that up without some sort of settlement. And given that Raikkonen has been known to ask for hefty amounts of money, that doesn't fit with the fact that the team has been struggling for money over the last year. Perhaps they're selling Kubica's contract to Ferrari - they have had a vested interest in him for some time. That said, I'm sure they want to see how well Kubica has recovered before giving him the top seat, so they might ask Sauber if they could shuffle one of their drivers out of the way while Ferrari assess Kubica's recovery. But this is all complete guesswork on my part.

Either way, I don't think this is the last of this.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 29 Nov 2011, 11:27

A very interesting move, isn't it? I wonder how well rated Kimi is at feedback and development, as that seems to have been Renault's problem this year, sticking with the flawed
idea of the forward facing exhausts, and despite Heidfeld's experience they just slid down the field as the year progressed. With the new exhaust configurations for next year there
will be a lot of early season development going on, and Kimi has driven some top cars so may well have some knowledge to be able to haul the Renault further up the grid.

The question is, will he be interested in fighting for 8th - 10th, if everyone is relatively where they were this season? I still think he fancies a shot at Schumacher's Mercedes seat once
it's vacated, and wonder if he has a 1-year get out clause to enable that to happen ...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Nov 2011, 11:37

Perhaps the exhaust blown diffuser ban will help Lotus, but I don't think it will be enough to raise above the midfield. And let's face it, Kimi will fail. You read it here first.