2012 Monaco Grand Prix discussion

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 22 May 2012, 21:54

Let's kick things off with this weather forecast :mrgreen:

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 May 2012, 22:17

Time to set a new world record! Fastest off-topic derailment!

I need this race to drown my sorrows and forget about how Inter just pissed 10M down the drain buying Rodrigo Palacio. Hopefully something interesting happens that makes me forget all about it

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 22 May 2012, 22:21

Watching at Monaco's weather previsions makes me less depressed: not just in my town there's a temperature not higher than 15 degrees, more than 10 degrees less than average temperature at the end of May!

Anyway, it could be an interesting weekend. I like wet races.

Oh, sorry: I should have said "an even more interesting weekend"... every F1 weekend is interesting! :-)

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 22 May 2012, 22:22

Senna racing in a Williams at Monaco. It's like he's picking up where his uncle left off.

Post by **Londoner** » 22 May 2012, 22:28

What happened to the word 'Thread' in the title of this discussion thread? :lol:

Typically, bloody work means I can't watch this live.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 22 May 2012, 22:43

kostas22 wrote:Time to set a new world record! Fastest off-topic derailment!

I need this race to drown my sorrows and forget about how Inter just pissed 10M down the drain buying Rodrigo Palacio. Hopefully something interesting happens that makes me forget all about it

Rodrigo Palacio? Bahahahaha etc

Rain at Monaco should be interesting

Post by **Londoner** » 22 May 2012, 23:08

Looks like the team formerly known as Group Bahar have worked with some awful nu-metal band on a project of sorts. :roll:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/99756

More importantly, today marks 30 years since one of the greatest displays of rejectness in F1 history, the chaotic 1982 Monaco Grand Prix.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 May 2012, 23:45

By the way, should Team Enstone win, are they going to play the British or French anthem on the podium?

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 23 May 2012, 01:48

East Londoner wrote:Looks like the team formerly known as Group Bahar have worked with some awful nu-metal band on a project of sorts.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/99756

More importantly, today marks 30 years since one of the greatest displays of rejectness in F1 history, the chaotic 1982 Monaco Grand Prix.

Epic. Derek Daly should have won!

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 23 May 2012, 03:49

tristan1117 wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Looks like the team formerly known as Group Bahar have worked with some awful nu-metal band on a project of sorts.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/99756

More importantly, today marks 30 years since one of the greatest displays of rejectness in F1 history, the chaotic 1982 Monaco Grand Prix.

Epic. Derek Daly should have won!

For today's cars, losing rear wing would mean instant retirement. All thanks to ground effect that Daly can go so far without rear wing.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 23 May 2012, 04:45

It goes unnoticed by loads of people. Half a front wing and no rear wing and he could still race at top speed.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 23 May 2012, 07:04

dr-baker wrote:By the way, should Team Enstone win, are they going to play the British or French anthem on the podium?

British because they've finally seen sense and re-registered as a British team.

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2012, 09:00

East Londoner wrote:Looks like the team formerly known as Group Bahar have worked with some awful nu-metal band on a project of sorts.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/99756

More importantly, today marks 30 years since one of the greatest displays of rejectness in F1 history, the chaotic 1982 Monaco Grand Prix.

Speaking of which, has anybody noticed a slightly unfortunate association with that deal - the fact that they are helping to promote a single called 'Burn It Down' less than a fortnight after the Williams pit fire...

Anyway, back to the topic - De La Rosa seems quite positive about HRT's chances this season in Monaco, since he seems to believe that the circuit layout will help HRT (because this event is mainly about the most downforce at any cost, which means that aerodynamic efficiency is less of a problem than elsewhere). http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99745

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 23 May 2012, 10:03

mario wrote:Anyway, back to the topic - De La Rosa seems quite positive about HRT's chances this season in Monaco, since he seems to believe that the circuit layout will help HRT

He's positive about HRT's chances, so probably he thinks that nor him neither his team mate will be out of 107%?

I suppose this is the best result that HRT could have.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 May 2012, 10:19

mario wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Looks like the team formerly known as Group Bahar have worked with some awful nu-metal band on a project of sorts.

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/99756

More importantly, today marks 30 years since one of the greatest displays of rejectness in F1 history, the chaotic 1982 Monaco Grand Prix.

Speaking of which, has anybody noticed a slightly unfortunate association with that deal - the fact that they are helping to promote a single called 'Burn It Down' less than a fortnight after the Williams pit fire...

Their own hospitality unit also caught fire a while back, so any suggestions of willful fireraising by Lotus may not be so wide of the mark... :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2012, 10:24

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
mario wrote:Anyway, back to the topic - De La Rosa seems quite positive about HRT's chances this season in Monaco, since he seems to believe that the circuit layout will help HRT

He's positive about HRT's chances, so probably he thinks that nor him neither his team mate will be out of 107%?
I suppose this is the best result that HRT could have.

They could match Marussia. Then, given a bit of attrition, they could snatch that 13th place which put them in front of Marussia for the rest of the season. Now that would be a great result!

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 23 May 2012, 10:25

DanielPT wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
mario wrote:Anyway, back to the topic - De La Rosa seems quite positive about HRT's chances this season in Monaco, since he seems to believe that the circuit layout will help HRT

He's positive about HRT's chances, so probably he thinks that nor him neither his team mate will be out of 107%?
I suppose this is the best result that HRT could have.

They could match Marussia. Then, given a bit of attrition, they could snatch that 13th place which put them in front of Marussia for the rest of the season. Now that would be a great result!

That is actually possible.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2012, 10:31

eurobrun wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:He's positive about HRT's chances, so probably he thinks that nor him neither his team mate will be out of 107%?
I suppose this is the best result that HRT could have.

They could match Marussia. Then, given a bit of attrition, they could snatch that 13th place which put them in front of Marussia for the rest of the season. Now that would be a great result!

That is actually possible.

It actually happened for two years in a row albeit at different GP's. I fancy a third time at Monaco, specially if it rains, which by the way, it won't (it is the meteorologist weather forecast reversal theory).

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 May 2012, 10:38

DanielPT wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
They could match Marussia. Then, given a bit of attrition, they could snatch that 13th place which put them in front of Marussia for the rest of the season. Now that would be a great result!

That is actually possible.

It actually happened for two years in a row albeit at different GP's. I fancy a third time at Monaco, specially if it rains, which by the way, it won't (it is the meteorologist weather forecast reversal theory).

And with Caterham missing a golden opportunity in Australia, a 13th placed finish would put HRT ahead of them as well! :mrgreen:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2012, 10:56

Wizzie wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
It actually happened for two years in a row albeit at different GP's. I fancy a third time at Monaco, specially if it rains, which by the way, it won't (it is the meteorologist weather forecast reversal theory).

And with Caterham missing a golden opportunity in Australia, a 13th placed finish would put HRT ahead of them as well!

I expect Caterham to have other chances as the season goes on. Canada, for instance. But of course that HRT could say that, for one time, they went ahead of Caterham.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 23 May 2012, 11:00

tkcom wrote:Senna racing in a Williams at Monaco. It's like he's picking up where his uncle left off.

18 years on and the driver in blue is still racing. Impressive, whatever you think of him.

tkcom · Post by **tkcom** » 23 May 2012, 11:27

Ferrim wrote:18 years on and the driver in blue is still racing. Impressive, whatever you think of him.

Don't forget Rubens! LOL!

Seriously, that was a lot of guts for Rubens to race at Monaco after a massive shunt at Imola and losing a compatriot on the same weekend.

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2012, 11:49

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
mario wrote:Anyway, back to the topic - De La Rosa seems quite positive about HRT's chances this season in Monaco, since he seems to believe that the circuit layout will help HRT

He's positive about HRT's chances, so probably he thinks that nor him neither his team mate will be out of 107%?
I suppose this is the best result that HRT could have.

For all the derision they've received, HRT have still made some progress - in qualifying for the Spanish GP, De La Rosa's fastest lap was only about 6.4% off Maldonado's lap (if you work from Hamilton's disallowed lap, which was the fastest in the Q3 session, it goes up to about 7.1% - still a substantial gain over last year when they were 8.4% off Webber's pole position lap). The car might be a little tricky to drive but the team do seem to be finding a fair amount of performance through fine tuning the set ups of the cars, and as others have pointed out high attrition is always possible.

Even without the possibility of rain (I'm taking the forecasts with a pinch of salt - rain was suggested for the Spanish GP, but in the end the only rain that fell that weekend hit the track overnight), with the tyres being more sensitive to thermal degradation and temperature fluctuations, plus producing more debris this year than last, the odds of a driver making a mistake and crashing out are higher. The increased amount of debris off line and the narrowing of the field might also increase the chances of a driver from one of the smaller teams holding onto an unlikely result - the performance advantage that an out of position front running car over the teams at the back has reduced, and passing at Monaco is already difficult enough without those additional issues.
The only catch is that those same circumstances would also favour Marussia and Caterham, and it has to be pointed out that both of those teams have fairly solid finishing records this year - both of those teams have only racked up two DNF's so far (OK, strictly speaking it should be three given that Pic retired from the Australian GP, but he had covered enough laps to be classified).

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 23 May 2012, 13:10

This is the one race where people can and presumably will try "stupid" strategies like one stopping, so this could be an interesting one. If someone from the midfield manages 20-25 laps in the softer compound the opportunity will arise.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 May 2012, 13:20

Ferrim wrote:This is the one race where people can and presumably will try "stupid" strategies like one stopping, so this could be an interesting one. If someone from the midfield manages 20-25 laps in the softer compound the opportunity will arise.

If anyone has a shot at pulling that off, it's Sauber. Kobayashi FTW at the Principality?

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 23 May 2012, 15:12

kostas22 wrote:
Ferrim wrote:This is the one race where people can and presumably will try "stupid" strategies like one stopping, so this could be an interesting one. If someone from the midfield manages 20-25 laps in the softer compound the opportunity will arise.

If anyone has a shot at pulling that off, it's Sauber. Kobayashi FTW at the Principality?

I wouldn't rule out Perez just yet. Unless he loses control again.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2012, 15:17

Pamphlet wrote:
kostas22 wrote:
Ferrim wrote:This is the one race where people can and presumably will try "stupid" strategies like one stopping, so this could be an interesting one. If someone from the midfield manages 20-25 laps in the softer compound the opportunity will arise.

If anyone has a shot at pulling that off, it's Sauber. Kobayashi FTW at the Principality?

I wouldn't rule out Perez just yet. Unless he loses control again.

I agree. Perez has shown that he is more kind to the tyres than Kobayashi.

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2012, 15:52

DanielPT wrote:I agree. Perez has shown that he is more kind to the tyres than Kobayashi.

True, although Kobayashi did do a reasonably long stint on the harder tyres in Barcelona (25 laps) whilst still putting in fairly decent times: still, when it comes down to managing the tyres, Perez generally seems to do a slightly better job.
Either way, I expect that at least one of the Sauber drivers will try a one stop strategy - Kobayashi was on course to make a one stop strategy work last year (his final stint would have seen him doing more than 40 laps on the super soft tyres), and was on course for 4th place just before they red flagged the race. Mind you, such a strategy is still going to potentially rely on relatively cool ambient conditions - thermal degradation, whilst perhaps being less of an issue at Monaco, will still be a factor.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 23 May 2012, 16:44

Eyes are on the Williams drivers. Maldonado isn't the only one of them who is good around Monaco, though he's been more consistently good than Bruno.

Bottas who? It'll be interesting to see him in a car, but Senna doesn't deserve to be dropped, and Bottas hasn't done enough as yet to deserve a drive.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 May 2012, 16:59

I (and franky no-one else) never say this, but, hooray for Martin Whitmarsh.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99772

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 23 May 2012, 17:00

kostas22 wrote:I (and franky no-one else) never say this, but, hooray for Martin Whitmarsh.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99772

Much like everyone else, he completely sidesteps the issue by citing the fans' enjoyment.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 May 2012, 17:01

Pamphlet wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I (and franky no-one else) never say this, but, hooray for Martin Whitmarsh.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99772

Much like everyone else, he completely sidesteps the issue by citing the fans' enjoyment.

Issue? What issue? This is a non-issue created by people kicking up a fuss just because they're not smart enough to play the game properly. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen etc.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 23 May 2012, 17:04

kostas22 wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I (and franky no-one else) never say this, but, hooray for Martin Whitmarsh.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99772

Much like everyone else, he completely sidesteps the issue by citing the fans' enjoyment.

Issue? What issue? This is a non-issue created by people kicking up a fuss just because they're not smart enough to play the game properly. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen etc.

Red Bull, Vettel and Webber have certainly shown that they can work around the issue. They still didn't keep their mouths shut in the end.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 23 May 2012, 17:12

Red Bull have long been cry-babies. If they're not winning (sorry, I meant if Vettel isn't winning), then they're complaining. At the end of the day, Red Bull are nothing more than a jumped-up energy drink with about as much sporting class as a vegetarian sausage. But maybe that's just me.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 23 May 2012, 17:17

AdrianSutil wrote:Red Bull have long been cry-babies. If they're not winning (sorry, I meant if Vettel isn't winning), then they're complaining. At the end of the day, Red Bull are nothing more than a jumped-up energy drink with about as much sporting class as a vegetarian sausage. But maybe that's just me.

Much as I agree with you, they certainly are winning at the moment. They're leading both championships. And they have even bigger problems than the tyres to deal with. Like the loss of the EBD.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 May 2012, 17:22

Pamphlet wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Red Bull have long been cry-babies. If they're not winning (sorry, I meant if Vettel isn't winning), then they're complaining. At the end of the day, Red Bull are nothing more than a jumped-up energy drink with about as much sporting class as a vegetarian sausage. But maybe that's just me.

Much as I agree with you, they certainly are winning at the moment. They're leading both championships. And they have even bigger problems than the tyres to deal with. Like the loss of the EBD.

Yes, they are. But you see, it is hard to come down from such a dominant position to one where they face stiff competition. To me, this is the biggest problem they are having to deal with. Bunch of wusses..

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 23 May 2012, 17:24

Pamphlet wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Red Bull have long been cry-babies. If they're not winning (sorry, I meant if Vettel isn't winning), then they're complaining. At the end of the day, Red Bull are nothing more than a jumped-up energy drink with about as much sporting class as a vegetarian sausage. But maybe that's just me.

Much as I agree with you, they certainly are winning at the moment. They're leading both championships. And they have even bigger problems than the tyres to deal with. Like the loss of the EBD.

Agreed, the Championship tables cannot lie. But for how long will they be número uno in both? McLaren should be running away with it if they can stop falling over like drunk teenagers every Sunday, Ferrari is basically a one-car team, Lotus are looking stronger and stronger and even Williams and Mercedes have had their day at the top. Red Bull are only at the top due to blind luck. But that's probably another conversation altogether.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 23 May 2012, 17:24

DanielPT wrote:Yes, they are. But you see, it is hard to come down from such a dominant position to one where they face stiff competition. To me, this is the biggest problem they are having to deal with. Bunch of wusses..

Makes sense if you think about it. They've had the best car for the last 2.5 years, and even then they nearly lost the championship in 2010 because their star driver had a grossly unreliable car and their #2 driver was injured.

AdrianSutil wrote:Agreed, the Championship tables cannot lie. But for how long will they be número uno in both? McLaren should be running away with it if they can stop falling over like drunk teenagers every Sunday, Ferrari is basically a one-car team, Lotus are looking stronger and stronger and even Williams and Mercedes have had their day at the top. Red Bull are only at the top due to blind luck. But that's probably another conversation altogether.

To be fair, this season hasn't made any bit of sense at all so far. The only thing that has is the fact that we've had quite a few front row winners in the last races.

Yes, Red Bull are lucky to be leading the championships. Doesn't mean we can rule them out yet, even with Kimi and Lewis being at their strongest.

Post by **mario** » 23 May 2012, 19:23

Getting back to the track itself, as I understand things there have been a few little bits of work on the circuit - resurfacing work at the exit of the tunnel because of the accidents caused there in recent years from the bumps, plus I believe that they have found a way to push the end of the barrier back slightly. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the only construction work going on around there - this picture from Adam Cooper is somewhat saddening, as it looks like the harbour view from the end of the tunnel is being blocked out for good:

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 23 May 2012, 19:24

Pamphlet wrote:To be fair, this season hasn't made any bit of sense at all so far. The only thing that has is the fact that we've had quite a few front row winners in the last races.

Yes, Red Bull are lucky to be leading the championships. Doesn't mean we can rule them out yet, even with Kimi and Lewis being at their strongest.

Well, if you focus on the performance of the cars, disregarding strategy screw ups, poor drives and strokes of luck, I'd say that Red Bull would have the 3rd best car on the grid, if that, I'd definitely rate the Mclaren and the Enstone cars this year as being better than the Red Bull so far, and the Williams and the Mercedes both seem to be developing well (although perhaps not so much with the Mercedes anymore, but still).
I have to say, if Red Bull did not have as good a driver line-up (and yes, that means both Vettel AND Webber as well, it's nice to ignore the Vettelsteria that seems to becoming commonplace in sky's coverage at least) and as good management (for the most part), then they wouldn't be top of either championship.
Still, I predict Mclaren will get it right for once in Monaco, and finish a solid 2nd and 3rd.