Your Reject Of The Race - Great Britain

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:02

Pamphlet wrote:Racing incident. Perez was way too optimistic, Maldonado had very cold tyres and was pushed onto the kerb, where he lost control. If anything, it looked more like Perez' fault.

Actually, Maldonado lost it on the track. Perez gave him plenty of room.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:03

Warren Hughes wrote:I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it was more Perez's fault, but he did take the risk of trying to hang it out around the outside and it didn't come off. If it had not been Maldonado, I'm fairly sure most would have been calling it as a racing incident. Actually, if roles had been reversed, I'm sure Maldonado would have been criticised for making an over-optimistic move.

I think that's very unfair. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just biased? You can't have a go at people for an extrapolation happening inside your own imagination.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:04

I guess when laying culpability for the Perez/Maldonado incident you could also suggest that if Maldonado is so notorious amongst the drivers for recklessness, then perhaps Perez should have been a bit more circumspect before trying to drive around him?

Though that is admittedly ridiculously unfair on Perez.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:07

shinji wrote:I guess when laying culpability for the Perez/Maldonado incident you could also suggest that if Maldonado is so notorious amongst the drivers for recklessness, then perhaps Perez should have been a bit more circumspect before trying to drive around him?

Though that is admittedly ridiculously unfair on Perez.

Yeah, you can't bully drivers into not overtaking by crashing into them regularly!

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:21

fjackdaw wrote:
Warren Hughes wrote:I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it was more Perez's fault, but he did take the risk of trying to hang it out around the outside and it didn't come off. If it had not been Maldonado, I'm fairly sure most would have been calling it as a racing incident. Actually, if roles had been reversed, I'm sure Maldonado would have been criticised for making an over-optimistic move.

I think that's very unfair. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just biased? You can't have a go at people for an extrapolation happening inside your own imagination.

I don't know, I think there is a degree of bias towards Maldonado because of some of his incidents in the past. Today he just made a driving error under pressure which resulted in a collision. There was nothing reckless, or even just careless, about it, just a simple mistake, and he doesn't deserve to be castigated for it.

Note that I'm talking about today's incident only and deliberately laying to one side any previous misdemeanors.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:29

Warren Hughes wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:
Warren Hughes wrote:I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it was more Perez's fault, but he did take the risk of trying to hang it out around the outside and it didn't come off. If it had not been Maldonado, I'm fairly sure most would have been calling it as a racing incident. Actually, if roles had been reversed, I'm sure Maldonado would have been criticised for making an over-optimistic move.

I think that's very unfair. Are you saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just biased? You can't have a go at people for an extrapolation happening inside your own imagination.

I don't know, I think there is a degree of bias towards Maldonado because of some of his incidents in the past. Today he just made a driving error under pressure which resulted in a collision. There was nothing reckless, or even just careless, about it, just a simple mistake, and he doesn't deserve to be castigated for it.

Note that I'm talking about today's incident only and deliberately laying to one side any previous misdemeanors.

Laying aside previous misemeanors is all well and good, but looking at the broader picture, either Maldonado has to hold his hands up and admit he's driving too hard, or the FIA has to take serious action to drill that point into his head. Because I don't think any of us want to see him take more cars out of races, including his own.

Warren Hughes · Post by **Warren Hughes** » 08 Jul 2012, 22:35

But you can't go punishing people for making mistakes just because of other things they've done. Accidents happen, generally, by accident. In popular F1 parlance, 'this is racing.'

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 08 Jul 2012, 23:17

Warren Hughes wrote:But you can't go punishing people for making mistakes just because of other things they've done. Accidents happen, generally, by accident. In popular F1 parlance, 'this is racing.'

Spot on. I agree that prior to the British GP, a case could be made whereby Maldonado's on-track manoeuvres could be called into question. The problem here is that people are letting these previous incidents cloud their judgement on what was clearly a racing incident, and the most obvious case of this is Perez's comments afterwards. I personally found what he said to be rather refreshing, and is something most drivers lack - i.e. the balls to come out and say what they really think. That doesn't mean that I agree with him though. Perez had tried an optimistic move, and ran the risk of Maldonado locking up, missing his braking point or whatever, and hitting him, which is exactly what happened. He gave him some room, but in the circumstances not enough, and I think it's very unfair to heap the blame on Maldonado when all he did was lock a wheel and understeer into the Sauber slightly. He didn't t-bone him and spear him off the track, it was a small bit of contact that was an accident and ruined both drivers' races. I'm of the opinion that neither were to blame, and Sergio's comments afterwards were mis-informed due to Pastor's previous escapades.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 09 Jul 2012, 01:51

My nominations:

Vodafone McLaren Mercedes: At this rate, they'll be favourites for ROTY before the season's out. Their increasing lack of pace is getting downright worrying and their new TV show is probably an unnecessary distraction right now. If there were dominating the season like pre-season testing said they would, I'd have no problem with it personally :lol:

Sauber: Scored two own goals in qualifying by putting both their drivers on inters before Kobayashi mows down their pitcrew and Perez goes on like a complete porkchop over what was, ultimately, a racing incident.

But my ROTR is:
Nico Rosberg: Went backwards at the start and failed to register a blip on the radar for the rest of the race.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Jul 2012, 02:09

Wizzie wrote:Nico Rosberg: Went backwards at the start and failed to register a blip on the radar for the rest of the race.

Good chocie. If it weren't for that move Grosjean made at Maggotts, I might have completely forgotten that Rosberg was in the race.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 09 Jul 2012, 05:05

Pamphlet wrote:Sergio Perez - I know it sounds hypocritical of me to defend Vettel (Malaysia).

Don't worry, everyone expects that of you anyway. :roll:

I nominate McLaren

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 09 Jul 2012, 07:15

I'm going to nominate Lotus as Reject of the Race.

They have two good drivers. They have an excellent car. And they have nothing to show for it. They get the odd podium and they've passed McLaren in the WCC standings, but people have been expecting them to win a race since April, and they've totally failed to follow through on their potential.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 09 Jul 2012, 07:49

I nominate Pastor Maldonado for crashing into someone. Again.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 09 Jul 2012, 08:24

Mercedes overall were shocking too...

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 09 Jul 2012, 09:01

I'm surprised no one had mentioned this one so far : Kenneth Clarke MP

For those who don't know who he is, he was the guy that stood right in the middle of the podium, right in front of the drivers, and led to the cameraman having to try and zoom right in on
Webber's face to avoid seeing Clarke (and he still kept creeping into the frame).

Vettel seemed to be pretty amused about it all (I saw him feigning to put his cap on Clarke's head at one point). Dignitaries should not take centre stage on the podium (except in their own
minds maybe, but I think several million viewers would disagree).

For a serious one though, I agree with Nico Rosberg, for reasons mentioned by others above.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 09 Jul 2012, 13:51

1. Nico Rosberg - mistake in qualifying, overtook by many cars at the start, anonymous race...
2. Pastor Maldonado - two races, two crashes

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 09 Jul 2012, 15:48

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:1. Nico Rosberg - mistake in qualifying, overtook by many cars at the start, anonymous race...
2. Pastor Maldonado - two races, two crashes

To be fair Pastor didn't intentionally crash into Perez....... this time :lol:

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 09 Jul 2012, 15:55

pasta_maldonado wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:1. Nico Rosberg - mistake in qualifying, overtook by many cars at the start, anonymous race...
2. Pastor Maldonado - two races, two crashes

To be fair Pastor didn't intentionally crash into Perez....... this time

I didn't said it, I just noticed what he did; I suppose neither Rosberg intentionally stayed out of Q3 and let anyone overtake him! :lol:

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 09 Jul 2012, 16:58

Captain Hammer wrote:I'm going to nominate Lotus as Reject of the Race.

They have two good drivers. They have an excellent car. And they have nothing to show for it. They get the odd podium and they've passed McLaren in the WCC standings, but people have been expecting them to win a race since April, and they've totally failed to follow through on their potential.

I disagree with you. I thought the ROTR award was given to someone (or something) that failed spectacularly and/or didn't live up to expectations at that race, not to someone who is considered to be underachieving overall during the season :lol:

FantometteBR · Post by **FantometteBR** » 09 Jul 2012, 17:21

Phoenix wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I'm going to nominate Lotus as Reject of the Race.

They have two good drivers. They have an excellent car. And they have nothing to show for it. They get the odd podium and they've passed McLaren in the WCC standings, but people have been expecting them to win a race since April, and they've totally failed to follow through on their potential.

I disagree with you. I thought the ROTR award was given to someone (or something) that failed spectacularly and/or didn't live up to expectations at that race, not to someone who is considered to be underachieving overall during the season

That's why we have the Reject of the Year award

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 09 Jul 2012, 17:24

FantometteBR wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I'm going to nominate Lotus as Reject of the Race.

They have two good drivers. They have an excellent car. And they have nothing to show for it. They get the odd podium and they've passed McLaren in the WCC standings, but people have been expecting them to win a race since April, and they've totally failed to follow through on their potential.

I disagree with you. I thought the ROTR award was given to someone (or something) that failed spectacularly and/or didn't live up to expectations at that race, not to someone who is considered to be underachieving overall during the season

That's why we have the Reject of the Year award

And there McLaren have Lotus beat hands down.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 09 Jul 2012, 18:41

Im gonna nominate whoever thought up the new podium procedure....

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 09 Jul 2012, 19:10

Captain Hammer wrote:I'm going to nominate Lotus as Reject of the Race.

They have two good drivers. They have an excellent car. And they have nothing to show for it. They get the odd podium and they've passed McLaren in the WCC standings, but people have been expecting them to win a race since April, and they've totally failed to follow through on their potential.

Because of that, I can't understand your reasoning behind it. Did anyone, ANYONE, expect Lotus to be 3rd in the Constructors Championship and have several podiums to show for it by race 9? I certainly didn't...

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 09 Jul 2012, 19:25

I find it hard to choose between Rosberg, Kobayashi and Maldonado. All three were equally shite, although Maldonado at least qualified in Q1.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Jul 2012, 19:27

East Londoner wrote:At the moment, I think it has to go to Sauber. Sent both cars out on the wrong tyre at the Q2 restart, and it cost them dearly.

I'm also throwing out an dishonourable nomination to any smartarses (I'm looking at you Doctor Baker) who state the obvious and claim 'it's only qualifying'.

Geez. Since the race, when has anybody mentioned anything that happened before it? (I was away for the weekend so was not able to respond until now.) But IF we were able to consider anything from the whole weekend generally, I would nominate Silverstone for not having grasscrete car parks...

I would also agree with a Ken Clark nomination - he was against the ban on smoking in public places, but then he was on the board of BAT at the time; he was the one who increased the workload/badly affected the work balance for doctors/teachers/the police in the 1980s (at least according to my dad, an actual doctor), and yesterday, he certainly tried to take centre stage (unlike Jeremy Hunt...).

But as for ontrack race-day performances, I would have to say it would be Petrov's engine.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 09 Jul 2012, 23:11

I say Roberg. He was absolutely nowhere all weekend. And mention Toro Rosso. Were they even in the race?

TomPryce · Post by **TomPryce** » 10 Jul 2012, 09:19

I don't think there was much that was rejectworthy in the race - at least, nothing obvious. Maldonado - we know is a crash magnet. Button - we know has poor pace.

If anything, Kobayashi's banzai move into his pitbox was the worst part of the race.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 10 Jul 2012, 14:43

DanielPT wrote:And mention Toro Rosso. Were they even in the race?

Unless they're hitting Caterhams, nobody cares.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 10 Jul 2012, 18:59

WeirdKerr wrote:Im gonna nominate whoever thought up the new podium procedure....

Oh god yeah, that was bloody awful. Are we getting that every time? If so, I hope we at least are spared Jackie Stewart - for some reason, I just cannot stand the man. If you've ever watched the old British GPs from the 70s on ESPN Classic and had to endure his whiny-voiced drivel which passed a commentary, that's reason enough to dislike him. There was one race (must have been 1979?) where they had Stewart and James Hunt and the latter was audibly getting so pissed off that it sounded like he wanted to punch Jackie. I would have paid to see that.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 10 Jul 2012, 19:19

eurobrun wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Sergio Perez - I know it sounds hypocritical of me to defend Vettel (Malaysia).

Don't worry, everyone expects that of you anyway.

I nominate McLaren

Guess what. Karthikeyan's been proven wrong in that case. It's not even a matter of opinion anymore.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 11 Jul 2012, 09:11

Pamphlet wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Sergio Perez - I know it sounds hypocritical of me to defend Vettel (Malaysia).

Don't worry, everyone expects that of you anyway.

I nominate McLaren

Guess what. Karthikeyan's been proven wrong in that case. It's not even a matter of opinion anymore.

Oh what, Reddit? IMO Reddit is as bad as the Autosport forums. :roll:

Oh wait...

Enoch: Official decision?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 11 Jul 2012, 09:14

FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Dude, chill. It's barely been three days and I haven't even touched predicament predictions yet either.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 11 Jul 2012, 09:56

Wizzie wrote:
FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Dude, chill. It's barely been three days and I haven't even touched predicament predictions yet either.

Neither did I do the IIDOTR, but looking over the thread, it's going to be Massa, with Senna and Grosjean behind him.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 11 Jul 2012, 10:33

FMecha wrote:Oh what, Reddit? IMO Reddit is as bad as the Autosport forums. Oh wait...

Enoch: Official decision?

While I agree, it doesn't detract from the fact that that post brings more than enough evidence to seal the deal.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 11 Jul 2012, 14:11

Wizzie wrote:
FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Dude, chill. It's barely been three days and I haven't even touched predicament predictions yet either.

I normally expect the decision from etyl on the Thursday or Friday following each GP. :roll:

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 12 Jul 2012, 01:05

FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Be patient.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 12 Jul 2012, 23:40

eurobrun wrote:
FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Be patient.

Thanks for understanding. Apart from work and sleep I haven't had time for anything else this week. My kids barely know me anymore!

But I will try to announce the official decision tonight, along with hopefully putting up an ill-thought-out, biased / starry-eyed, baseless 2012 topical article which I cobbled together on the train.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Jul 2012, 01:06

eytl wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
FMecha wrote:
Enoch: Official decision?

Be patient.

Thanks for understanding. Apart from work and sleep I haven't had time for anything else this week. My kids barely know me anymore!

But I will try to announce the official decision tonight, along with hopefully putting up an ill-thought-out, biased / starry-eyed, baseless 2012 topical article which I cobbled together on the train.

Looking forward to it!

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 13 Jul 2012, 14:13

Well, folks, here we go ...

No great surprise here, in the end I've plumped for Nico Rosberg. It's hard to imagine that this is the man who convincingly won the Chinese GP and who had a run earlier in the season when he scored more points than anyone else. For sure, there is an unpredictable element in who is going to do well on any given weekend, but what this season is showing is that the rewards are there for those who match consistency with the ability to squeeze out results even when the car's not quite there. I mean, the Mercedes wasn't that bad at Silverstone, if you look at Schumacher's performance. Nico can be so frustrating because, China aside, you keep waiting for the "carpe diem" moment that never comes. Instead, you find him in a stupor like this weekend when he was outside of Q3, pretty much outside of the points all race, ran behind the Toro Rossos for the whole of the last stint, and only recorded the 11th fastest lap. No wonder many have doubts as to whether he really is a front-line driver.

As I've said in the main page caption, any more anonymous and he'd be a hacktivist. Very disappointing.

razta · Post by **razta** » 13 Jul 2012, 15:03

eytl wrote:Well, folks, here we go ...

No great surprise here, in the end I've plumped for Nico Rosberg. It's hard to imagine that this is the man who convincingly won the Chinese GP and who had a run earlier in the season when he scored more points than anyone else. For sure, there is an unpredictable element in who is going to do well on any given weekend, but what this season is showing is that the rewards are there for those who match consistency with the ability to squeeze out results even when the car's not quite there. I mean, the Mercedes wasn't that bad at Silverstone, if you look at Schumacher's performance. Nico can be so frustrating because, China aside, you keep waiting for the "carpe diem" moment that never comes. Instead, you find him in a stupor like this weekend when he was outside of Q3, pretty much outside of the points all race, ran behind the Toro Rossos for the whole of the last stint, and only recorded the 11th fastest lap. No wonder many have doubts as to whether he really is a front-line driver.

As I've said in the main page caption, any more anonymous and he'd be a hacktivist. Very disappointing.

actually the point about Schumi.. apparently the Mercedes wasn't bad at all.. it was his second stint.. he had a really really rubbish set of tyres..
and here's the evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZHWPyl7kFM&t=3m35s
I know, I know.. it's Lenny Kravitz, but had the tyres in the second stint been ok.. i think he'd have finished a bit higher